Our football coaching staff is a Top __ staff
I was reflecting on a quote from Three & Out regarding a comment from Dufek saying we have a Top 10 (HC) job and not having a Top 25 coaching staff (under Lloyd). I then started thinking about what our staff has been able to do (particularly on defense) and if that statement still holds. If you assume "results based charting", I guess this is a Top 18 or 20 staff depending on the poll. However, I think their ceiling is still much higher than that based on early data points.
What are your thoughts?
November 17th, 2011 at 5:57 PM ^
Top 1. No question.
November 17th, 2011 at 5:58 PM ^
Certainly top 1. Sin alguna duda.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:00 PM ^
The bar is high.
Had you told me before the start of this season M would have the best D line in the country, I would have called you crazy. Here we are Nov. 17 2011 and M has the best D line in the country.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:39 PM ^
Mmmkk then. Being impartial for a second, you would take our D-line ove LSU's? Really? I love our team, MM/RVB and all, but an objective person couldn't state we have the best d-line in the country, imo. Frankly, the B1G is pretty weak this year.
It isn't too hard to argue we have the best defensive coaching staff though!
November 17th, 2011 at 6:54 PM ^
Me and Van Bergen think you are crazy. M way better than LSU. Way way better.
Ryan Van Bergen took it a step further Monday in regards to the defensive line. "We think our starting four is better than any starting four in the country," the senior defensive lineman said. "That’s our opinion. You don’t have to believe it, but that’s what we think and we expect to play that way."
November 17th, 2011 at 10:21 PM ^
That's great. I love RVB. So long as they keep playing as if they believe it and just need to prove it to everyone else, I'm good with that.
Here's to seeing Martinez on his back come Saturday. (It will be my daughters first game at the Big House.)
November 17th, 2011 at 6:03 PM ^
IMO, Mattison is a top 5 DC and Borges a top 25 OC. Hoke is harder to get a read on, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as a top 25 HC with a ceiling higher than that. Net result is about a top 10 staff when accounting for Hoke's potential.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:05 PM ^
Top-3.
For god sake, we have a defensive coordinator that turned the 110th ranked defense into the (current) #17 defense! That is an amazing turnaround.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:07 PM ^
have made a similar remark about our defense. They don't believe it either.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:10 PM ^
dreaming....
November 17th, 2011 at 7:06 PM ^
[obligatory comment about Inception]
November 17th, 2011 at 10:56 PM ^
To see if the top falls over.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:07 PM ^
We still haven't seen the final act, no judgement from me just yet. Though I am fairly impressed so far.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:24 PM ^
Well put. I dont judge an entire meal until after dessert, this will be no different.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:09 PM ^
Borges=Top 40
Hoke... I have no idea. There's not enough data yet. Give him 3 years and then ask this question again. I think he'll be a top 5 when it's all said and done.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:12 PM ^
If Hoke is successful as a HC, and if DB keeps writing checks, there's no reason we can't eventually have the top staff in the nation. Where we are now, I don't know.
We probably can't tell much about our offensive staff (FJ discluded of course) until Morris is on campus, maybe a year earlier with Gardner having a while in their system. D staff seems like it could be elite, but I suspect there's a big difference between taking 4*'s and making them a good Big Ten defense and taking 4*'s and coaching them over four years into LSU's defense. I think we'll get there, but it's not like anyone knows for sure.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:12 PM ^
Eating
/ourstaffbefat
November 17th, 2011 at 6:14 PM ^
I would say Mattison is first choice for a national DCoordinator award. I believe we have the best staff in the country and that time will prove it. I think with the recruiting ability, and the character they show, and the football intelligence, and the ability to make kids better football players that if a prospect were looking to go from High School to the pros that Michigan and our coaches would be his best chance and get the most out of him by far. The last time Hoke and Borges won awards or were nominated for one they had undefeated seasons under their belt. I believe Borges got some top recognition for his first season at Auburn where they were controversially left out of the National Championship, and Hoke won for his last year at Ball State and the second year at SDSU. Next year they'll all win Coach/Coordinator OTY honors when we run the table. I wouldn't exchange coaches with any school in America.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:15 PM ^
Top 110 coaching staff. Definitely better than all coaching staffs ranked 111th and below.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:22 PM ^
Mattison is Top5 no question
Borges is tough to tell but I'd say at least Top20
Hoke still has to prove himself as a recruiter/team mananger but early returns are good so I'd say Top15
Overall I'd say we have a Top15 Coaching Staff with a very good chance of moving into Top5
November 17th, 2011 at 10:25 PM ^
I agree with you "top 15 with a chance of moving to top 5" ranking.
But: "Hoke still has to prove himself as a recruiter/team mananger"?
Seriously? After three years of turmoil and falling from the national landscape, Hoke has us with the current #1 recruiting class in the country. Also, he has managed to come in and take a bunch of kids who were recruited by sa different staff for an ENTIRELY different system, get all of the important talent to stay, and get them to play good enough to be 8-2 going into the final two games. I think that his recruiting and management are beyond question.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:26 PM ^
Obvious top 1 joke aside(actually, maybe serious). This is a top 5 staff, the only ones I can think of that maybe better are Bama, LSU, and Oregon (maybe throw OU in there) and those are NC contenders/perennial powers.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:27 PM ^
Let's wait 4 years and then decide. They're coaching mostly players recruited by others, and offensively we're running someone else's offense. With that said, I doubt there's ever been a defensive turn-around more stark than this one. (A combination of an historically-abysmal prior defense and an historically amazing new defensive staff and defense-minded HC.) Mattison has to be assistant coach of the year. Hoke has to be one of the top 1st year coaches out there. I'm very happy, but the grade has to be incomplete for now. There's not enough body of work.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:35 PM ^
I think Hoke has changed the tide on the rivalry. Hell people in Ohio are starting to believe him. Never in a million years I would have thought that. Selling Michigan jerseys is a good start.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:38 PM ^
Honestly though we haven't won a single thing yet so I would say we aren't top shit. There are numerous staffs that have won multiple conference and/or national championships. We have a staff that has recruited weill in 1 of 2 years and has a record of 8-2. To say that is top 5 is quite the overreaction.
November 17th, 2011 at 7:25 PM ^
auburn won the national championship, but I think our coaching staff is better than auburns. auburns offense isn't doing a lick this year without cash newton.
November 17th, 2011 at 7:33 PM ^
Our offensive coaching staff took the B1G Offensive POTY and made him inconsistant and a throwing liability. That could change, but as of now the Auburn staff has at least won something.
November 17th, 2011 at 7:44 PM ^
like Borges said its not about stats, its about wins, would u care if Denard plays the way he does today and we were undefeated? we do have a better record than we did last year, ofcourse a lot of it was because our defense. but I get that the auburn coaches won a title, but i'd still take our staff over auburns.
November 17th, 2011 at 7:58 PM ^
Denard playing the way he is now as opposed to last year will not go undefeated. QB play has to be better than it is now in order to go undefeated.
November 17th, 2011 at 8:01 PM ^
I know, I was just saying. u still could go undefeated with a defense like LSU's. and Drob playing the way he has. hopefully one day we'll be at that level.
November 17th, 2011 at 10:54 PM ^
Captain Obvious strikes again. However, playing like he did last year didn't result in undefeated either did it?
November 17th, 2011 at 6:41 PM ^
I love Greg Mattison.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:45 PM ^
Even under RR I thought our defensive line was okay--heck, for two of the three years we had Brandon Graham and Mike Martin on the team. It was the back seven that was awful. So I think the position coaches responsible for the LBs and secondary deserve a lot of credit. I don't watch enough other games to know how UM's defensive staff ranks in the country, but any time you combine a savvy veteran coordinator like Mattison with a strong group of position coaches, as LC would say "you have a chance to be pretty good."
November 17th, 2011 at 6:45 PM ^
Defensive staff: Top 5.
Offensive staff: Top 25
November 17th, 2011 at 6:46 PM ^
chance Michigan now has a top 5 offensive and a top 5 defensive co-ordinator.
This doesn't always work in the SEC where this is more commonplace and often co-ordinators are more hyped. But its pretty exciting to see it here at Michigan.
November 17th, 2011 at 8:29 PM ^
With a Top 5 offensive staff, we'd be undefeated right now.
November 17th, 2011 at 6:57 PM ^
Mattison: maybe the best, especially after NFL experience.
Borges: underrated but may have found his "sweet spot" in Ann Arbor. Needs time to get his own people.
Hoke: Great motivator and delegator and excellent results so far, but is it enough for prime time? Ask again in five years.
In two weeks, if this question is asked again, the answers could be totally different. At the end of the season, it could be different yet again. We just don't have enough "evidence" to make a judgment yet.
IMO, if Michigan runs the table, including a BCS bowl, the entire staff deserves the top ranking. But it will still be subject to change as things unfold.
November 17th, 2011 at 7:17 PM ^
Top coaching staff in the country, period.
November 17th, 2011 at 7:22 PM ^
Mattison, but who brought him here? The recruiting has been stellar in year one, who is responsible for that -- a great team of coaches selected by one Brady Hoke. The team and all around it reflect the HC. That is why we revere Schembechler, Yost, Crisler, Carr, Oosterbaan.
The future: Hoke uber alles.
November 17th, 2011 at 8:14 PM ^
The reason Hoke doesn't get that much respect is that in previous places that he's been head coach, he hasn't really been that impressive. His record at Ball State was not good. He had 4 losing seasons, followed by a 7-6 season, and then went 12-2 with the weakest strength of schedule in the country, getting killed against Buffalo in the MAC championship game and Tulsa in the GMAC game (he did not coach in the GMAC game, but it was his team that was playing).
Hoke's record at San Diego State was somewhat more impressive, going 4-8 and then 9-4 with a win over Navy in the Poinsettia Bowl. The general view around here seems to be that if Hoke is going to succeed, he will have to succeed by hiring good assistants and letting them do their jobs, recruiting good players for those assistants to coach, and will have to not be a puntasaur. So far he has done a good job of each of those things, so he deserves credit like you say.
November 17th, 2011 at 8:58 PM ^
You're kidding, right? He turned around one of the most inept MAC schools in awhile, into a 12-2 season. That's pretty darn good coaching, same with SDSU, which was able to compete with teams like TCU.
November 18th, 2011 at 2:13 AM ^
During his first four years at Ball State, he went 4-8, 2-9, 4-7, and 5-7. That's really not that impressive. There is a reason Brian wrote his "Profiles in Cronyism" article back in 2007. The 12-2 season is impressive, but somewhat unconvincing as he did against the weakest schedule in the FBS and got blown out in his last two games (although one of those games was the MAC championship game where I just learned he lost because of turnovers being returned for a touchdown, and the other was the GMAC bowl which he didn't even coach in).
On the other hand, good God does Ball State have a history of not being good. They've never won a bowl game in the history of the program. Ever! They've been to five bowl games, ever, and two of them were under Hoke. Even Eastern Michigan has won a bowl game (although they've only been to two bowls).
Brady Hoke has almost beaten a lot of teams. I think he almost beat Nebraska and Michigan while at Ball State, he almost beat TCU while at San Diego State. But he didn't actually beat any of those teams. Fortunately, he's going to get a chance to actually beat Nebraska on Saturday.
None of this matters much now because Hoke seems to have found a way to overcome his weaknesses by hiring good coordinators and letting them do their jobs, and his strengths as a leader are well-suited for Michigan.
November 18th, 2011 at 6:45 AM ^
No coach, no matter how good, is ever going to turn a Ball State or SDSU into an elite or undefeated team over a period of a few years. At Michigan, it's a different story. So far, Hoke and the rest of the staff are passing with flying colors. Look at recruiting, player development, the improvement week to week. We haven't won every game this season, but we were in every game with a chance to win in the 4th quarter. And was anyone really expecting us to be 8-2 so far this season with the change in coaching staff?
November 17th, 2011 at 10:07 PM ^
Ball State outgained Buffalo 503-301 but lost the turnover battle 5-2. Two of their fumbles were returned 92 and 74 yards for touchdowns in the third quarter. Yeah, they lost, but the score is deceptive.
November 18th, 2011 at 1:44 AM ^
I actually had no idea about that. That makes the game seem a lot better.
November 18th, 2011 at 12:10 PM ^
BALL STATE and SAN DIEGO STATE! Not many people win at those schools and he had the two best seasons at those "football factories". Yeesh.
November 17th, 2011 at 7:57 PM ^
Realistically? Let's see.
I love Hoke, but because of his past record, I'd put him in the top 15 of head coaches in college football (albeit, he is the BEST coach for Michigan based on fit).
Mattison? Top 3, easily.
Borges? I'd say Top 25.
Assistants and remaining staff? Top 15.
Overall, that puts them as a Top 10 staff in college football. But since Hoke is such a great fit for Michigan, it's a Top 2 staff for Michigan. I'd only listen to the detractors that say Harbaugh would bring a better staff, because well... look at Stanford and San Fran.
November 17th, 2011 at 8:00 PM ^
Rank for Michigan? Best staff available, hands down. Hoke gets it, and Mattison is the top D coordinator in college football, IMO.
Rank if this staff left for another school? Hoke slides significantly (from #1 to probably top 30). Mattison remains #1 and the assistants are still strong. I'd place them in the Top 20.