OT-ish: Melton and in-state Martinez to OSU
Muskegon wide receiver/defensive back Cameron Martinez and Maryland linebacker Mitchell Melton both committed to Ohio State. Martinez is #8 in the state and #370 overall. He was the Player of the Year in Michigan. Melton is #656 overall and took an official to Michigan; he's a teammate of Kris Jenkins, Jr., who obviously just committed to us.
Both of them were 100% crystal balled to OSU, so these aren't surprises.
Because Urban Meyer is one of the greatest coaches and recruiters of all time. As of right now Ryan Day is not that, and the odds of him becoming that are very slim.
This is such a critical year to beat OSU and Day. It reminds me of Tressel’s 1st year. He was like 6-4 going into a game against a great Carr team and Carr went ultra conservative and gave it away. Tressel’s class ballooned to #1 when he should have been on the hot seat.
Momentum is a very real thing.
Exactly, Tressel in the grand scheme of things was a nobody, but still recruited like a fiend against us. Do not take THEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ohio lightly when it comes to recruiting regardless of who their coach is.
Tressel won with defense,special teams and running the football. Ohio ripped through our d- line all day in that game. Another thing Tressel did was have his team cut down on turnovers against Michigan. You won't find too many coaches more conservative than Tressel was. Plus we started to lose the turnover battle because Tressel made Ohio mentally tough.
8 - 4 team that lost 45 - 17 in a bowl game to Tenn. And you think that was a GREAT team.
But that team had a lot of talent with big recruiting years after the '97 co NC. They should have won more games with Perry, Walker and Bellomy. This was just one of your typical 8-4 Carr teams where he had a the talent to win the conference but always came up short in big games and games he should have won. Harbaugh is starting to acquire the talent but he needs to win some big games this coming season and win the B1G and make the playoffs, then you will really see the recruiting take off.
Not trying to be negative. But a few things to mention about that team. Soph .QB who threw 4 ints. B.J. Askew was our No.1 back. Walker was a stud that season. Check out our starting DL that year. Carr had trouble recruiting a solid front seven on defense. Now a Sr. Navarre and Perry were real good in 2003.
Day’s staff is recruiting at a Meyer level. For the 2020 class, Jeff Hadley is 2nd nationally and Brian Hartline is 6th nationally.
https://247sports.com/Season/2020-Football/CompositeCoachRankings/
Too many on this board are looking for Ohio to drop so that we can overtake them. I want them to remain top 5 AND we overtake them. Let's man up. This is big boy football. How bout every year the winner of THE GAME goes to CFP. Damn we beat Ohio 50% of the time in ten years that's 5 CFP appearances.
I can get on board with this. Let’s make it 70% UofM
So..I'm not Maizen anymore ?
Your posts have the same tendencies depending on the mood.
Quite often your posts have good points but are framed to be negative and inciting without a fair acknowledgement of the whole story leaving out any positives.
But your right if we can beat OSU 5 out of 10 which I think with our talent is totally reasonable we should make the playoffs almost every year we beat them. I’m optimistic in our new offense. I’m also optimistic that Don Brown is addressing you need 4/5 cover DBs on the field with speed. Our line is the best it’s been in a decade with depth. Our QB roster is as good as it gets.
Criticism is fine but you need to acknowledge the positives.
Fair.
I do honestly believe that DMac has a higher ceiling than Shea.
OL should be better this year. Even with speed in space we need to re - establish The Michigan run game and that means in big games not against Rutgers.
I like Collins. Want to see Black healthy. Bell seems like a playmaker.
Agree with you Peach, UM has to rise to their level. Hoping OSU drops off is a long-shot near term and beating a top 5-10 OSU team has more benefit to the program that beating a 2Oth ranked one.
Day is recruiting very well. I went to the 247 Composite and they're a solid 4th right now with 19 recruits at around 91.75 / recruit or thereabouts that includes factoring in a low rated kicker. If you look back at the last 5 or 6 years, the goal of every major recruiting power seems to be a final of 300 points on the 247 Composite. I believe only Alabama and OSU (each a few times) along with surging Georgia and maybe Texas once has accomplished this feat. OSU has a shot again this year but I see them finishing 4th behind Clemson, Alabama, and Georgia. Still, he's no Urban but OSU is OSU and has always recruited well. We just have to stay close to them and we are.
The Clemson class could end up being the greatest EVER. They're the favorites for a few more top 10 to 15 recruits and could really distance themselves from the others. I guess that's what a NC will do for a school's image.
They recruit the shit out of quite a few states but the difference between the recruiting and talent levels of Michigan and OSU is not that big of difference. It's going to come down to development and execution on the field.
/\ This. We have enough talent to play with and beat anyone.
No we don't .We are getting closer but not there yet.
Mark D managed to beat Urban twice, yet we make fun of their recruiting rankings. If they can manage to do it there's really no excuse for us to not beat them every once and a while.
OSU doesn’t prepare for any team like they do for UM, which is an obstacle Dantonio doesn’t have to face. If you can stomach a click to 11W, this is the speech Meyer gave to the team this week about Michigan. Day is continuing the obsession, allotting 15 minutes of every spring practice to focus on UM. Paris Campbell spoke to the team last week and the only topic was beating Michigan. The rivalry makes it different than games with MSU, PSU or anyone else. Michigan will always get the best shot OSU has to give. Eventually the tide will turn but I 100% believe that is not going to come because of a drop off from OSU, Michigan will need to elevate their game and they will. The last coach at OSU who didn’t “get” the rivalry, respect the rivalry or have that obsession was it was John Cooper, a hall of fame coach who couldn’t beat Michigan. https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2019/07/105065/how-do-you-respect-a-rivalry-urban-meyer-final-gold-pants-speech
damnit! huge scumbag but meyer can flat out coach. if nothing else i gotta appreciate his rabid competitiveness.
you know don brown and partridge and those boys will work to be ready for redemption vs osu...hopefully the players take ownership and can play their best ball in november
The funny thing was when Cooper was going 2-8 against Michigan the narrative was that he spent too much time focusing on Michigan and his team played to tight. He spent practice time every week of the season on Michigan.
There is always a spin.
The explanation I heard was that Cooper would take over play calling duties against Michigan and in the bowl games.
For sure there is always spin, but living in Columbus, the most prevalent narrative was that he couldn’t get the team ready, UM was in their heads. He never got the rivalry, he knew of it, spoke to the power of it, but he didn’t get it. After the great tie after dropping his first 3 or 4 against UM, the president of OSU called it one of the greatest victories in OSU history. Think about that, what would Tressel or Meyer say if a tie to the rival was called a great victory?? Out of respect for the president they wouldn’t have lambasted him but they certainly would have made a public statement that it is not a victory to tie in The Game.
The magnitude of how great the rivalry is shown by both schools when they still acknowledge it is the most important game, eclipsing all others regardless of the trends. It was that way when Cooper went 2-10-1 and every year OSU believed every time they would win the next game, and its that way now for both fanbases when Tressel and Meyer have gone 16-1.
The game this year will be epic and the narrative will be out of control afterwards. It’s either Day not a good coach and is the first coach to lose his opening game vs UM since the 80’s or Harbaugh will never beat UM and loses to a first year coach. Neither will be true but it will crush one fan base and be the story for at least the next 365 days
I really don't give a fuck about "always getting their best shot". That's true of literally every single big rivalry in college football, and how many of them are as one sided as ours? Why are we not giving them OUR best shot every year? Nothing we did last year showed me we give OSU any more prep than any other team on the schedule. Why we don't talk about wanting to beat OSU more than anything like they continue to do even after these last 17 years is asinine to me. What's the definition of insanity again?
We play softer than MSU under Dantonio. I know this will put some on this board in hysterics but if we had Dantonio the last 12 years we would have won a NC. Michigan needs to play tough physical football. Dantonio is a lot more like Bo than Harbaugh. And that is very disappointing.
Maizen?
Of course it’s Maizen. Also, suggesting we would have already won a national championship if we hired a guy that has a losing B10 record the past 3 years is laughable.
Give him Michigan's resources. And recruiting base. Not MSU's. He would have accomplished great things. I don't like the prick either. But he is like Laimbeer. Hate him if not on your team . But love the motherfucker because he is ours. He is a better coach at MSU than Saban. Think about that.
Dantoni benefited from UM wandering in the wilderness for 7 years or so... MSU is on a downward trajectory since UM has become relevant again, & he is not changing staff. He's rotating most of the same staff who have been failing lately, to different positions. Like playing musical chairs. Harbaugh is putting the right people in place to succeed, even recognizing his own shortcomings. We'll see how it works out.
Harbaugh - dynamic. Dantona - static. Think about that.
What is dynamic about Harbaugh in the first four years ? And I think Dantonio was in the CFP since Jim has been here. Gattis might be the answer and I hope he is. But Jim has not developed a run game in 4 years. He hasn't made Michigan tough. They run razzle dazzle stuff. And when the time comes they get out toughed. Dantonio beat a lot more teams than just Michigan during his run. And he took his team on the road and kicked ass. When's the last time Michigan has won a big road game ?
Dantonio made the playoffs because of a botched punt. Harbaugh missed the playoffs because the officials cheated.
Dantonio is a good coach and at Michigan would have had great success. That does not mean Harbaugh is not a good coach who is going to have great success. Gary Moeller was 3-21 at Illinois before winning three Big Ten Titles in five years at UofM.
Harbaugh will win a National Championship certainly before Dantonio. This program was so adrift until Harbaugh took the job.
But the bottom line is the bottom line. We have to stop making excuses. Sometimes things are unfair and sometimes mistakes are made. But Michigan football has to be better so that they can adapt , improvise , and overcome all obstacles and win their share of big games. They don't have to win all of them but damn let's start winning are fair share.
I think Peach is good to have around. Some dont like his lack of sunshine-blowing but that's reality. I doubt Dantonio would have won an NC with Michigan had he been coach. He's weak. Look at his CFP embarassing meltdown; couldnt score a single point. Right from the start during the pre-game interviews he was a mess, just couldnt handle the pressure.
I'm fairly certain Urban was also shut out in the playoff, does that mean he can't handle it either? What a dumb take.
Yes, because that's exactly what I said - if a coach is shut out of a playoff game it means he can't handle it. What a dumb twist on what was said.
Michigan has the 9th best FBS record since Harbaugh arrived. Dantonio went 3-9. Their playoff team was at best the 3rd best team in the B1G that year.
Michigan's run game was quite good last year. Michigan beat ranked MSU and Northwestern on the road just last year. Yes you will define those games as not being big, because you are a concern troll.
Check rushing stats against the best defense's we faced.
All games are big. But don't you expect Michigan to beat NW and MSU ?
I want to beat ND , OSU , and our opponent in Big Ten Championship game this year.
If that makes me a concern troll to you so be it. I want more out of this program.
The resurgence of Michigan combined with Kentucky aggressively recruiting OH has left MSU with the short straw. From the looks of it Day is also recruiting OH harder, but that may be due to a better than average crop of talent. 5 of their 19 recruits for 2020 are from OH.
Is agree if and only if we had a big time playmaker ala Newton, Lawrence, Haskins etc at QB. But, at least with our former offense we don't have enough, maybe with Gattis' offense and Patterson and the WRs it will be enough, but so far it hasn't yet.
Shea is good. But not good enough. DMac is our best option to have a higher ceiling. We can win 10 games with Shea. But we have the opportunity to win more with DMac. Love me. Hate me. Call me names. I want Big Ten Championships. I want NC's.
We don't even know what DM can do yet. He made a few great runs and I really like his legs, but we don't know if he can read coverage, deliver an accurate pass, handle the pass rush, etc. He's fairly unproven. He has potential and I'll be excited to see him get his chance in 2020, but Shea I think will improve a lot this season. Shea made some great throws last year and had some good runs as well. His major drawback was on slower developing pass plays against good defenses when the o-line couldn't hold up in pass pro. I don't think we'll see as much of that under Gattis. He'll have him getting the ball out quicker, using more misdirection, and getting more single coverage. I really like the idea of Shea in this offense. I think he'll have a great year. He's not Haskins and not good enough to win a NC without a better o-line, but I think he'll be the best in the B1G in 2019.
Fair take. Hope Shea proves me wrong. From what I have seen from DMac , he has a very good pocket presence. And I like his athleticism and arm . I want Shea to make as many plays as he can to help us win the tougher games on our schedule.
I’m curious how you are defining talent level? There is and has been a substantial talent differential favoring OSU, and based on the way the 2020 class is shaping up, that gap is not going to close anytime soon.
I think the gap is closing. Lets compare
UM Class Rank OSU Class Rank Difference
2014 #20 #3 +17
2015 #37 #7 +30
2016 #8 #4 +4
2017 #5 #2 +3
2018 #22 #2 +20
2019 #8 #14 -6
2020 #6 #4 +2
2016 and 2017 were great classes for UM, but unfortunately OSU produced three phenomenal classes in a row and UM had some terrible attrition from those classes. The last two cycles are the closest UM has been to OSU in the last 7 years and last year was the only class UM has ever been ahead of them in that same time span. The outlier class for UM is 2015 when we had a coaching change. The outlier for OSU is 2019 when they had a coaching change. Clearly OSU has a higher ceiling and a lower floor, but 2019 is a great time with a new coach for OSU, UM's first ever class ahead of them, and the game in AA. If they can win that game the 2021 class will likely be similar to OSU's and then it's game on and the rivalry is back. But, this is a key year. Another loss to OSU and it starts to get harder to keep signing top 10 classes.
That’s one way to view it and also shows the recruiting bump new coaches being for 1-2 years. What that view doesn’t account for is the average player ranking which had to be a part of evaluating a class rank. Also, a challenge for UM will be overcoming 3 of 7 classes ranked outside of the top 20. A bad class can be a big obstacle for a program, forcing them to play guys who are too young etc. I’m too lazy at the moment google the depth chart but the 2016 and 2017 classes will likely be the biggest factors as a whole (JR’s and SR’s) although a few sophomore and redshirt freshman will contribute as well as a few rare true Freshmen such as Dax etc.
What that view doesn’t account for is the average player ranking which had to be a part of evaluating a class rank.
UM's average is only low(er) because they are taking bigger classes. If you compare the same number of guys in each class you'll see their average is better.
Also, a challenge for UM will be overcoming 3 of 7 classes ranked outside of the top 20.
I don't think so. 2014 and 2015 are not relevant today because only two of those guys are on the roster (Glasgow & Runyan). You shouldn't look back further than 2016. The years prior are just to show a trend towards the OSU/UM talent gap decreasing, not to give an estimate of who is most talented in 2019. (FWIW JH is averaging the #10 class in his tenure. OSU is averaging the #4 in that same time span). The main thing for UM is to have coaching stability and not have bad years. If every class is in the 5-12 range and they maintain stability they'll be fine so long as OSU isn't signing the #2 class half the time. If you want to estimate what team talent is like for predicting next season you need to look at the team talent composite, which hasn't come out yet for 2019. If you watch Steve Deace's Michigan Podcast you'll see he has UM tied for the 5th most talented roster with Texas. OSU has the #3 most talented roster only behind Bama & UGA. UM is quite a ways behind Bama, but not far behind OSU...certainly enough to be competitive with the right coaching and player development.
We've had some solid recruiting classes under Jim, no doubt. But the one figure on your list that really stands out is last year's OSU class at #14. I had to go back to the 247 Composite and see why they were so low and found out that it wasn't the quality of their class but the quantity - they only gave out 17 scholarships which, of course, will affect the final rating. Their quality was outstanding - only behind Alabama & Georgia in average / recruit (91.87). My point: final standings are OK but don't tell the whole story. How many times was either school limited in scholarships or a kicker or punter taken that affected the final standings ? Sometimes it goes deeper than the final rating.
it wasn't the quality of their class but the quantity - they only gave out 17 scholarships which, of course, will affect the final rating. Their quality was outstanding - only behind Alabama & Georgia in average / recruit (91.87).
I've had this conversation a number of times and I think your thought process is a misunderstanding of the data. Anytime you have two significantly different sample sizes like this with OSU only signing 17 guys and UM taking 26 it's going to skew to the numbers depending on what you're looking at. If you're looking at total points it will skew the numbers in favor of the larger class. If you're looking at average rating it will skew the numbers in favor of the smaller class. If you want a true apples to apples comparison you have to compare the same number of guys in each class. So, if you compare OSU's 17 guys to UM's top 17 guys you'll find that OSU's class average was .9186 and UM's is .9253. So, UM's top 17 guys have a better average rating than OSU's.
I understand what you're saying - fair enough. The other side is that the last 9 recruits that we took brought our class average down and took spots on the roster which can't be dismissed. Still, our final average / recruit for the 26 man class of 90.78 is outstanding for a class this huge. I'll take that every year - no doubt !
I guess the only fair way to compare recruiting - because of different class sizes - is to look at the total roster rating of the comparable schools going back 4 to 5 years. My guess is OSU and Alabama lead the way by quite a margin over the others with Georgia breathing down their necks. I'd have to guess we're in - or close - to the top 10 with our consistent solid classes..