Larry David's Proposal to Eliminate Field Goals
On the most recent Bill Simmons Postcast (link), Larry David (of Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm) talks sports and argues vehemently:
"I've said it before, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to say it again. I really believe that we should get rid of goal posts in football. No b__sh_t. Field goals ruin the game."
"Why do we have to have it? For what reason?,"
"He is not even a football player," and
"I think it would really, really help the game."
Personally, if I get a vote (I don't), I'd vote with Larry David (but don't feel strongly about it). With all of that said, I feel as if I must link to Remy Hamilton's game winning field goal in 1994 over Notre Dame:
Remy Hamilton Game Winning FG To Beat Notre Dame In 1994
Let's start from scratch: What is one thing you would change about football if you could? With commercial breaks going the way they are, I'm at the point where I want the clock to keeping running for 150 minutes total (like in soccer).
February 9th, 2024 at 9:28 AM ^
Link to video of Larry David talking with Rich Eisen about this and other ideas for football: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypUU8Ydj5zw
Please no more talking about Warde -- I can't take it much longer
February 9th, 2024 at 9:28 AM ^
Fix the "fumble through the end zone is a touchback" rule.
February 9th, 2024 at 10:07 AM ^
Fix it to all fumbles out of bounds are turnovers.
Don't fumble the football.
February 9th, 2024 at 10:28 AM ^
The easiest way to fix that is to put in a rule that if the ball goes out of the end zone - during a fumble, then the ball gets placed back to where the fumble started (no advancement of the ball, during a fumble). The offense keeps the ball, and the ball doesn't get advanced.
February 9th, 2024 at 10:32 AM ^
I think the ball should go to the furthest point back, either the line of scrimmage or behind the line if it was fumbled in the backfield. Fumble at the 1 after a 20 yard run? You're back to the 21.
HOLD ONTO THE BALL!
February 9th, 2024 at 10:32 AM ^
No, that will remove excitement. Let's add it instead.
Either (a) all fumbles out of bounds are turnovers, or (b) a fumble out of bounds is still live and any player may recover it, no matter whether it's in bounds or out.
February 9th, 2024 at 10:40 AM ^
"a fumble out of bounds is still live and any player may recover it"
This would be great! The teams could fight all the way up the tunnel and out into the parking lot!
February 9th, 2024 at 10:49 AM ^
Believe it or not, I got that idea because I read somewhere (I think the Football Archaeology website) that this used to be the rule back in like the 1910s. A ball could literally roll under the bleachers and the players would have to chase it to try to recover it for their team. The ball wouldn't become dead until one team or the other established possession.
February 9th, 2024 at 11:18 AM ^
I mean, I'm with you in spirit, but that would be absolute f-ing chaos. Imagine fumbling into the other team's bench--dudes standing on the sidelines would start tackling the other team's players, kicking the ball toward their own, etc.
Although I guess if what you want to see in football is more fistfights, then, yeah, go for it.
February 9th, 2024 at 12:25 PM ^
What is "Denard's Pro Career" supposed to mean?
If you're making fun of him, that doesn't seem too nice considering he couldn't play QB after he suffered the nerve injury. He still made the NFL as a running back and played a few years.
February 9th, 2024 at 1:25 PM ^
What Ever Happened to Denard Robinson?
Good article that Brian linked to in his last post on the main page. His injury luck was poor.
February 9th, 2024 at 12:12 PM ^
“The teams could fight all the way up the tunnel and out into the parking lot!”
MSU would have a head start on everybody on this rule change.
February 9th, 2024 at 10:52 AM ^
This is idiotic. The end zone is sacred ground and needs to be treated as such!
February 9th, 2024 at 10:39 AM ^
Make fumbling OOB an offensive spot penalty. If it goes OOB in their own endzone, it's a safety.
The defense won't game the rule. They're never going to kick or push the ball OOB when they can gain possession by keeping it in bounds.
OTOH, the offense loses yards if they don't keep it in-bounds, but they increase risk of a turnover if they do.
So now it's a game theory thing. Make those players think on the fly.
February 9th, 2024 at 12:45 PM ^
This would be excellent fun.
February 9th, 2024 at 2:08 PM ^
That would be interesting! Was reading some game theory once, an article by a friend. He said that the thing about games is that they are arbitrary. You mess around doing this general thing--say, running up and down with an oblate sphere--and then there are all these roadblocks, these rules. That's what makes it fun and maddening. You place your hand against your forehead and cry, "Oi!"
So just trying to smooth out a game doesn't interest me much (although stopping so many interruptions does); I don't think you usually succeed. You'd have a LOT more ties if you eliminated field goals. But you CAN make things that have become too easy harder.
And experiments, OTOH, are fun, too. Give just one point for field goals inside the 40, for example. Four for field goals over 60. Let your hair down.
EDIT: In re: fumbling out of bounds. . . I've always wondered why smart guys don't just fumble the ball forward five or six yards up the field and out when they're being tackled?
February 9th, 2024 at 8:40 PM ^
Probably because the ball gets moved back to the point of the fumble.
February 9th, 2024 at 10:30 AM ^
Fix fumbling the ball forward on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down. The ball should go back to the spot of the fumble. Make it like how 4th down is already. Don’t reward the team that fumbled the ball.
February 9th, 2024 at 10:51 AM ^
Disagree. The offense gets looser with the ball near the end zone to try to break the plane and score. There should be the risk for doing that — yes you can reach out and try to score, but if it gets loose and goes OOB in the end zone in the process of you making that risk, it’s the other team’s ball.
February 9th, 2024 at 11:22 AM ^
Disagree. The offense gets looser with the ball close to the end zone--the risk should become proportionally greater of fumbling and giving the ball to the other team. The risk shouldn't suddenly sky-rocket to "even if the other team doesn't recover it, you lose the ball and 20 yards of field position for no clear reason."
February 9th, 2024 at 11:31 AM ^
I don’t understand why people don’t like this rule. Why shouldn’t it be a turnover? Don’t fumble the ball!
February 9th, 2024 at 12:43 PM ^
Because the other team didn't recover the ball. I would like a penalty to lose 10 yards from the previous line of scrimmage. It seems odd to get the ball and 20 yards because the ball got knocked/dropped loose at the 5-yard line and squibs out of bounds just inside the pylon.
In contrast, the defending team would not get the ball at the 20 when the ball squibs out of bound at the 1- yard line.
February 9th, 2024 at 12:17 PM ^
I’d change that rule to the same as basketball has for a ball out of bounds. The team that touched it last loses the ball. That would eliminate defensive gaming of the system to kick or push the ball out of the end zone and get the ball on a touchback. If the offense was the last to touch the ball and then loses it, well, tough luck, shouldn’t have fumbled.
February 9th, 2024 at 2:28 PM ^
I disagree with this, I think you should get the maximum penalty for fumbling the ball at the most crucial area of the field. Don't fumble.
February 9th, 2024 at 4:59 PM ^
Don't fumble
February 9th, 2024 at 5:02 PM ^
So if offense fumbles in own endzone and goes out of bounds should it be a touch back instead of a safety?
February 9th, 2024 at 5:07 PM ^
Maybe we can make it like a tie up in basketball. If you win the coin toss, you receive, the loser has the possession arrow. They would get the ball to start the second half or after a fumble out of bounds, OR…Maybe a fumble out of bounds is a ten yard penalty and loss of down. It’s weird that a fumble out of bounds is a positive for the offense, unless it’s out of the opponent’s end zone. Just a very odd rule and it only makes sense because we are used to it.
February 9th, 2024 at 5:36 PM ^
My fix to this would be the offense loses the down -- like a grounding penalty -- gets to keep possession, but the ball is placed on the 10.
February 9th, 2024 at 6:17 PM ^
I'm for continuing to move to ball to the 20 but let the offense retain position, with loss of down, goes to defense if fumble was on 4th down
February 9th, 2024 at 9:30 AM ^
At the NFL level I think it is time to narrow the goal posts, FGs were not meant to be 90+ percent makes. Not married to this idea but I think a center pole worth an extra point would be neat. Added drama and strategy to kicking. Down 4 on the 25 yard line, do you kick and see if you're kicker can the center post or run a play?
February 9th, 2024 at 9:55 AM ^
Similar to your suggestion about having a middle post, I was thinking during bowl season it would be fun if a kick that shanks off the upright and goes in should be worth extra points because it's hard to do. Middle post would reward accuracy. Bonus points off the side would add to the risk/reward (you get 0 or you get bonus).
February 9th, 2024 at 10:34 AM ^
Give the kicking team a single point if the kicker can split the uprights with a kickoff. This would eliminate the penalties and chance of injuries on KOs. Also, using that middle post, give 6 points if he hits it on a KO.
February 9th, 2024 at 11:00 AM ^
Make it like Aussie rules. Inside posts are worth more than outside posts.
And get rid of kickoffs. Make them punts from their own 40 or something. Kickoffs are pointless at this stage.
February 9th, 2024 at 11:08 AM ^
Isnt a punt after a touchdown the same idea as a kickoff?
I would just get rid kickoffs altogether, start at the 25 when the opponent scores.
February 9th, 2024 at 11:11 AM ^
There needs to be some mechanism to turn the ball over like onside kicks. Otherwise you change the late game too much.
Add that mechanism to punts, like making the ball live like on kickoffs.
February 9th, 2024 at 2:12 PM ^
That's a good point but i guess i dont see the difference between a kickoff and a punt. How would that change anything compared to kickoffs?
February 9th, 2024 at 5:04 PM ^
Start at the 20. Offenses don't need any more advantages then they already have. Kickoffs are pointless. It only gives networks opportunities to go td, commercial, kickoff, commercial.
February 9th, 2024 at 12:04 PM ^
I think the goalposts are fine, as are FGs/PATs. But I'd change the idea of specialists.
-A player who scores a TD should kick his own PAT. This is done in rugby. This would be far more interesting and lead to more irregular scorelines. All players would have to practice their kicking, making it much more a game of "football" than it is now.
-FGs can only be kicked by someone who was in on the previous down. If you want to have a kicker on your roster, fine, but he's got to play other snaps of football, too. This would create interesting 3rd-down scenarios as the coach would effectively have to decide whether or not to bring the kicker on for that play. If not, he either is deciding already to go for it or will hope that one of the 11 regulars can placekick.
February 9th, 2024 at 1:27 PM ^
-A player who scores a TD should kick his own PAT. This is done in rugby.
No, it is not.
February 9th, 2024 at 1:44 PM ^
I thought it was the case in one of the two codes (union or league).
Regardless, it would be way more fun than trotting out the PK for a 98% chipshot.
February 9th, 2024 at 2:25 PM ^
Fun fact: the name football traces all the way back to the middle ages, when many sports were done on horseback. Thus the game that was played "on foot" became known as "football". It wasn't until the last 200 years or so that football started to splinter into soccer, rugy, and American football, but all are still technically football in that they are played on foot.
February 9th, 2024 at 2:49 PM ^
Yes, but it's also true that American football evolved from sports that had more kicking than it currently does.
February 9th, 2024 at 12:24 PM ^
I like that but make it even more extreme with a target where the bullseye is worth 3, the next ring is worth 2 and the outer ring is worth 1.
February 9th, 2024 at 1:04 PM ^
Put a giant windmill in front of the goalposts, like putt putt golf.
February 9th, 2024 at 6:42 PM ^
This post generates a strong visual image. I expect the windmill blades to giant and maize and spinning at Michigan stadium.
February 9th, 2024 at 1:31 PM ^
I like the general concept of changing the FG rules as opposed to eliminating them. FGs should be worth 2-4 points; less points for short, easy FGs and more points for longer FGs and/or a more difficult target (like the center concept mentioned).
February 9th, 2024 at 2:00 PM ^
If you do it like Aussie rules, smaller narrower posts are worth 4 and wider are worth 2, for example, I think that adds some complication. Might then also have extra points worth 1 or 2 depending on those same rules. Have to discourage wanting to kick the field goal due to the lack of certainty, but also make it worth the time to have a kicker.
February 9th, 2024 at 2:13 PM ^
Shorter fg being worth less punishes team that gain more yards. You would get weird plays like a QB running straight back 20 yards on third down to get into 4 point range.
February 9th, 2024 at 9:31 AM ^
I would get rid of pass interference. Seriously. Think about it. Unless you purposely tackle them, let both players duke it out like football players if the QB throws it.
February 9th, 2024 at 10:16 AM ^
At least get rid of them when the ball is underthrown and the receiver just stops and jumps into the defender who is in pursuit. If the balls underthrown that's on the QB not the defender. Next start actually honoring the rule, if it;s uncatchable, it's not PI.