Gibbons expelled for alleged sexual assault
Brendan Gibbons "permanently separated" from the University of Michigan for violating the University’s Student Sexual Misconduct Policy.
https://michigandaily.com/sports/former-kicker-brendan-gibbons-expelled…
January 28th, 2014 at 5:47 PM ^
Because lynch mobs and a lack of due progress make country strong, right comrade?
/s
Seriously, the university followed procedure. Everyone feels for the victim, but if this the accusations had turned out to be false, you'll already expelled a kid and ruined his life without any real way to make it back up to him. Gibbons is a POS because of this, but don't confuse the result with blind justice.
January 28th, 2014 at 6:08 PM ^
Again, he's questioning the length of the procedure, not saying that he should have been expelled without any process whatsoever.
Be honest -- if an MSU or OSU football player was accused of rape in his freshman year, and then expelled in his senior year (after his eligibility was essentially expired), would you be so charitable in assuming the university was just following proper procedure.
I'm not saying UM did anything nefarious here. But at the very least by allowing the process to take so freaking long they opened themselves up to an unnecessary shitstorm.
January 28th, 2014 at 6:35 PM ^
Does the university even have the ability to slow a legal investigation like this? When a crime is reported doesn't it fall completely outside the purview of the university and instead become the jursidiction of Ann Arbor police?
Nevermind I just reread the article and it sounds like this article is only addressing the re-investigation by the University. I would be interested to see if whatever caused the university to finally expell him will be forwarded onto police for possible prosecution.
January 28th, 2014 at 6:29 PM ^
Completely agree. We should be upset and demand answers. There may very well be a reason (maybe long after legal channels didnt work, the victim chose this route), but if this was MSU or OSU people would be up in arms. Heck, weren't people saying there should be a suspension for the OSU RB who allegedly hit the girl outside the bar? If we can't hold our own institution to the same level, we are pathetic as a fan base.
January 28th, 2014 at 6:55 PM ^
Why do you have the word "allegedly" in there for the OSU running back? There is a video of him hitting her.
January 28th, 2014 at 8:53 PM ^
If it came out that it was investigated and dismissed, then years later re-investigated and found to violate a lower burden of proof, I'd definitely want to know more.
But yes, I'd wallow in the false sense of superiority over rivals for a second, until I remember how many times this University has screwed up and take off my blue-tinted glasses. And btw, I usually don't comment too often in those threads about players from other teams because they always feel like pile-ons for no good reason. Unless it is something obvious like Campbell from MSU body-slamming a security guard in the hallways, getting too deep in these weeds about other programs I only tangentally follow never works out.
January 29th, 2014 at 3:51 PM ^
"Seriously, the university followed procedure."
Seriously - at this point we don't know that.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:52 PM ^
victim reported crime then later withdrew charges later b/c consent was provided. However, I could imagine they were paid off by someone to go away. This issue is extremely complex, and I am confident no one,myself included, will ever know what happened.
The real person to blame is Rich Rod. He knew more about this story than anyone.
January 28th, 2014 at 10:38 PM ^
evidence of witness tampering?
January 28th, 2014 at 5:17 PM ^
It's disspointing because it lends credence to the fact that the university/AD tried to squash this when it happened, all these facts have been out for a couple years now. Someone I met who worked at the Daily said when this story first happened they were told by the AD to not print anything or they would lose their access and press passes to games and events.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:21 PM ^
Between you and the other guy, this "I know a guy" conspiracy bullshit could just be pulled out of your ass. There's no reason to go there.
Also, read the damn article. This was reviewed due to a revision in the sexual conduct policies.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:25 PM ^
and then a review of the incident that long ago...I am no lawyer and I don't pretend to know the regulations of the university, but this stinks. But my overall concern is for the victim. If something truly happened and this is what it took for the right thing to occur, then so be it. But I'm still left with a bad feeling about how this was handled.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:29 PM ^
I was involved in a misconduct issue for a virus on my computer (ITCS was painfully passive-aggressive) and it took fuckin' FOREVER to work out a solution. This was perhaps the most minor of "offenses" possible and it dragged on for months. Yes, this is anecdote, but I'm less surprised how long this took to resolve than most.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:26 PM ^
I don't like the conspiracy stuff either; "I know a guy" is a very general statement that has little or no credibility in these areas.
But it's hard not to wonder why it took a review of a case due to a "revision" of sexual conduct policies (a revision that apparently occurred in 2012, right?) to get him off the team. The information was clearly available at the time it occurred.
If you hear that one of the Athletic Department's athletes is involved in an alleged sexual assault, do you need a policy revision to investigate it? No.
I don't know a guy. I don't care about that stuff. But it is, frankly, inexcusable for this to take three years to become fully public.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:31 PM ^
This WAS investigated when it first happened. There are plenty of news articles about it. The policy change specifically altered the burden of evidence required for dismissal.
This was fully public already. It's not the fault of the university that people don't pay close enough attention. I'm not excusing Gibbons' actions by any stretch, and this was probably for the best, but c'mon son.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:35 PM ^
It wasn't that public, because this information has some as a big surprise to a lot of people every time something new has come out. A few months ago a thread on 11W (I think) brought this event up, and there was a corresponding thread about it here; it was the first I had ever heard of it.
So I looked into the actual information available, and it was mostly published by one guy who appears to have a grudge against the University and likes to stir the pot. There aren't a lot of major media sources discussing it, or even a lot of opposing blog traffic that would be associated with a larger paper trail.
It does, indeed, look suspiciously under-reported.
And, at any rate, a "burden of evidence" may be important in expulsion issues, but there is no such burden required to suspend someone from a team for a "violation of team rules." And that never happened.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:37 PM ^
It was public right after it first happened in 2009.
http://www.annarbor.com/news/university-of-michigan-student-arrested-af…
That's archived and I can try to find a follow-up, if you wish.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:44 PM ^
Helpful link, thanks.
Follow-ups are actually a good idea, just for our own understanding of what was and wasn't revealed. Note that Brendan's name is not revealed in that article--did it make significant news when he was identified?
January 28th, 2014 at 6:15 PM ^
I understand your point, but this stuff was well known for a while - it seems you just missed it.
Also, I wouldn't totally discount all the "I know a guy" comments. Many of the posters here are students - students that take classes with players, date athletes, attend parties with athletes, work for the AD, work for the Daily, etc.
This isn't a huge city, it's a college and rumours don't spontaneously ignite. I'm not saying to trust every "I know a guy," but there's been smoke around Gibbons and his "extracurriculars" since he got on campus. Now the fire is confirmed.
January 28th, 2014 at 7:33 PM ^
"rumours don't spontaneously ignite"
Methinks you don't understand the concept of rumors.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:52 PM ^
You can choose to not believe me if you want, its not like if i told you the name of a student who was at the Daily in 2009 it would really make a difference unless you plan on facebook stalking him to see if you find him trust worthy.
All I can tell you is that I was a student when this was happening, I had friends at the daily and one of them told me that is what the AD told them, I chose to believe him because there was no reason to lie and the facts pointed to the university trying to put down the chance of this becoming a news story, especially since it involved intimidation from othere players other then gibbons. The fact of the matter is that guilt in cases like this is nearly impossible to prove and when people are found innocent the victim recieves the backlash which is part of why sexual violence is reported at such a low rate. The woman in this case did every single thing a rape survivor would do and it got swept away, I am choosing to believe her side based on what I have seen and heard and not the university or Gibbons. That is not enough to put Gibbons in prison nor should it be, but I am dissapointed in how the university handled the entire situation.
January 28th, 2014 at 6:31 PM ^
January 28th, 2014 at 11:56 PM ^
If everything was done correctly IE: notified A2 PD or MSP. Taken to a local ER and had a rape kit with medical doctors exam to confirm happen then why did criminal charges get dropped?
Just curious if you have that inside info? The AD doesnt control law enforcement.
January 29th, 2014 at 10:41 AM ^
First of of all any survivor of any type of sexual violence is in fact a survivor, rape or not. Second of all from my understanding of the case she did go to the ER and have an examination done and did notify the police which is why Gibbons was arrested in 09. But here is the issue with prosecuting rape and sexual misconduct, it is nearly impossible to prove. Unlike in the movies there isn't usually a big fight that leads to bruises all over, there is usually vaginal tearing but that can also occur during consensual sex so that isn't proof. In this case both parties said they were in the room together alone, one is saying it was consensual and one is not, the fact that they had sex doesn't prove rape and so it was dropped but the fact that they couldn't prove it in a court of law doesn't mean that it wasn't rape and that the evidence would point to Giibbons lets say being 60% guilty which is plenty for the school because they aren't putting him in prison.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:34 PM ^
I call bs on that. Just stop with the idiotic accusations.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:20 PM ^
Same story that has been rumored for a while now... Story was sketchy from the beginning, and I'm really disappointed that it took the university until after his career kicking at Michigan to get rid of him. Makes those wins on last second field goals seem irrelevant and invalid... Really ashamed as a fan.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:36 PM ^
The university acts separate from the AD. Boy, people are leveling some really unfounded accusations out there and jumping to some ridiculous conclusions.
Gibbons wasn't all that special (Wile was an excellen fill-in) to the team, so they would have done just fine without him....
January 28th, 2014 at 6:02 PM ^
Well I'm sorry... Cover-ups are not uncommon in the within the NCAA these days no matter the caliber of the player. They occur to protect the image of the university. It's not like Jerry Sandusky was at any point relevant to PSU or its success once his tenure concluded yet that whole deal went unsolved for years after. Don't get mad at me or anyone else on here for being upset with the university for not taking action sooner.
And if I recall, wasn't Gibbons heralded as the most automatic kicker you guys had ever seen? You can't argue that he wasn't a critical part to the team at some point in his career.
January 28th, 2014 at 7:25 PM ^
January 29th, 2014 at 12:01 AM ^
Also Gibbons was a horrible kicker until after Brandon and Hoke got to A2. In 2009 why would a university risk a national news black eye for a kicker?? It's not like where talking about Charles Woodson here....
January 28th, 2014 at 5:21 PM ^
I hope there was no coverup. All I can think of is Penn State's recent problem with Sanduski and Paterno. I know this would not be as serious of a case because it was a student. However, this would be horrible if it was in fact a coverup.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:22 PM ^
Fucking disgraceful. I demand a full review of how the university handled this, who knew what, who else was involved, and then why this investigation and decision took so long to make. Lucky for MSC she's on the way out. Who else knows who could follow her?
January 28th, 2014 at 5:32 PM ^
"I demand a full review of how the university handled this, who knew what, who else was involved, and then why this investigation and decision took so long to make."
Are you in a position to make demands like this?
January 28th, 2014 at 5:35 PM ^
Yes -- I'm an alumnus and a donor to the athletic department.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:37 PM ^
Well, so are thousands of other people and they don't take order from us.
January 28th, 2014 at 6:09 PM ^
one man is one man...
but I see a lot of upset people, or rather people concerned about the fact that this player was on the field for three seasons after the alleged event and only upon graduation has anything actually been done (or rather one game from graduation)...
it makes all the brunette jokes disgusting...
and I would rather our football team deal with some scutiny, and some punishment if necessary, than let sleeping dogs lie...
jdon
January 28th, 2014 at 7:27 PM ^
January 28th, 2014 at 5:39 PM ^
Being a donor or an alumnus doesn't mean jack unless you're Stephen M Ross
January 28th, 2014 at 5:45 PM ^
I'm the least of the university's worries right now, but I have a right to know, like everyone else does, about how the university conducted this possibly damning exercise that lasted for a couple of years. It makes no sense for this to have taken so long, and so it is imperative that a clear explanation is made available to everyone. If the university has legally binding policy to not say anything about this other than expelling Gibbons, so be it, but there needs to be a statement to satisfy the multitude of questions about this sickening incident and the aftermath.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:55 PM ^
I'll start with the disclamer that I don't know anything about this particular situation. I did, however, work in student affairs for a while during my time at Michigan and I can say that there are a number of pretty strict laws regarding what a university can and cannot disclose regarding cases like this. Gibbons was punished by the Office of Student Conflict Resolution, not a court of law. This is obviously a terrible situation and I don't mean to make light of anything that may have happened but student privacy laws would be in play here.
January 28th, 2014 at 6:00 PM ^
If the university has legally binding policy to not say anything about this other than expelling Gibbons, so be it, but there needs to be a statement to satisfy the multitude of questions about this sickening incident and the aftermath.
Well, I know FERPA has a whole ton of restrictions on reporting a student's academic situation publicly. And in terms of review length, I was just in jury duty for a robbery that alledgedly took place in early 2010, and this was the first court action (so no appeals yet, etc.). Law and Order makes people think proceedings (whether legal or not) happen in weeks. They do, once they get onto a docket. Getting to that point can take years. I'm not really surprised it took this long, though I'm not sure if there was some nefarious reason it did take this long.
January 28th, 2014 at 8:33 PM ^
BB- the comparison in timelines between an armed robbery going to criminal trial and the decision to expel a student at a University is not a great one, especially if you were in NY. For all you know as a juror, the guy was an informant and the charges had been on ice for awhile. Or that the day he was supposed to go to trial came up 3 times, and on those 3 days, there was another trial in that courtroom already carried over, or the judge was out, or one of the attorneys had another trial, or some other reason, and it had been ready for trial for 2 years but had been rescheduled, etc.
Four years to decide a rape matter via quasi-judicial body at what is supposed to be a well-run university? Ridiculous. And if M enacted a new policy and then retroactively "prosecuted" a case they'd previously passed on, that's not a great way to operate, IMO. Making a policy change or statute retroactive is usually frowned upon.
January 29th, 2014 at 1:15 AM ^
You don't even have to know anything about the actual procedures involved to suspect that a process in which the maximum penalty is expulsion of a student from the university probably has a typical timescale smaller than the usual time a student attends the university.
January 28th, 2014 at 6:10 PM ^
January 29th, 2014 at 12:07 AM ^
Female- files report.
Law enforcement drops case due to lack of evidence under their rules.
University keeps male student in good standing because there is not enough evidence under current rules to kick him out.
3 years later rules change.
Law enforcement still doesnt have enough to go after him.
University goes back over the case with the new set of rules and NOW has enough to kick him out of school.
The end.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:55 PM ^
Congrats. So am I. By this logic, I'd like a full report on why they don't have better concession options at games.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:57 PM ^
January 28th, 2014 at 6:35 PM ^
January 28th, 2014 at 5:22 PM ^
I don't know anything about higher-up issues, and there's nothing credible we can speculate on at this time.
Nonetheless, this does not look good at all. There were allegations associated with this case that included some unfortunate behavior by other, more significant players, and those allegations now look more credible. Why this happens at the end of Brendan's career is beyond me.
And we rode that guy to a Sugar Bowl win. Ugly. This is a big black mark for Michigan and its fans.
January 28th, 2014 at 5:36 PM ^
So despite there being "nothing credible we can speculate on," you have concluded that this is a "big black mark for Michigan and its fans?"