Duke's Rasheed Sulaimon accused of sexual assault; Coach K and Duke AD knew 10 months ago
Pretty ugly story. Rasheed Sulaimon is accused of sexually assualting 2 women during the 2013-14 academic year. The information eventually got back to the Duke AD and Coach K around March 2014. Coach K dismissed him from the team for "repeatedly struggling to meet the necessary obligations" on January 29th 2015.
Not a good look for probably the most respected coach in college athletics.
somehow.
Its not that shocking to anyone who pays attention to K. He does what he has to to win and look good. This is the same coached who managed to get duke to start giving his basketball players bullshit 2-3 year degrees so he could preach about graduation rates.
Wonder if there were family obligations.
So, who do you believe? Coaches can't be judge, jury and executioner, especially when there are no charges filed. When there are no charges filed, it's "he said, she said."
My guess: Coach K believed the player until he got information to the contrary. There are a lot of things I don't like about Duke, but I really don't want to believe that Coach K would keep the kid on his team if he believed the kid was running around making the campus unsafe for female students.
As for the reasons given for his dismissal, I can't imagine a school risking a potential lawsuit by announcing that they got rid of someone for criminal allegations that hadn't been addressed by the criminal justice system.
It sounds to me like justice was finally done, even if it was a little late.
but "repeatedly struggling to meet necessary obligations." That is a pretty Hokish-Gibbonish explanation.
The vague language doesn't concern me much, and it didn't concern me much with the Gibbons saga. If Coach K says, "We dropped him because he probably raped a couple of girls," then he's (1) admitting uncertainty, (2) being extremely unfair to Sulaimon if the allegations are false, (3) probably opening up Duke to legal action if the allegations are false, and (4) putting the girls in an even worse situation, since they apparently don't want this to be a big, public story (like the Winston thing). And who would that serve? He knew, like Hoke knew, that everyone would figure out what this is about, but when there's uncertainty about what actually happened, it's a difficult spot for a coach.
That's not to say that Coach K handled this well. We'll see. But people were very quick to rush to judgment about UM's decisions in the Gibbons situation - wrongly, I think - and it's reasonable to let this play out a bit before vilifying Krzyzewski and everyone else at Duke.
100% agree with you. How many times are these kids cleared by the courts too after having their names dragged through the mud, because the other party is lying.
How many times is the other party pressured to recant their statement? Or bullied into not going public in the first place?
I agree that having somebody's name dragged through the mud when they didn't do anything is really, really bad. However, if a person is willing to come forward with an accusation despite the pressure not to do so, then I would say that there's likely a reason for that.
Other than with the crazies (it's called FACT CHECK Rolling Stone!), sexual assault goes unreported far more often than people are falsely accused.
EDIT: I'll also say that I don't actually know that Sulaimon is guilty or that Coach K was negligent. Maybe the "victim" IS lying. If so, then shame on them.
I just think that, given the pressures that sexual assault victims face in these kinds of situations, there's a decent chance that something bad happened.
The issue isn't whether or not a person making claims is lying, though by all reputable research I've seen false accusations of rape and sexual assault are pretty rare. The more important issue is that in a country that purports to hold someone innocent until proven guilty by a court of law, the university owes it to all parties to not make a value statement until such time as that determination of guilt, or at least the public acknowledgement of the situation, is completed.
Honestly - it's two wmen, seemingly unreleated, making similar claims. I don't know what happened (and I doubt anyone here does), but I wouldn't expect this to turn out to be some massive hoax perpetrated on Sulaimon.
<blockquote>Block quoted</blockquote><blockquote>Block quoted</blockquote><blockquote>The more important issue is that in a country that purports to hold someone innocent until proven guilty by a court of law, the university owes it to all parties to not make a value statement until such time as that determination of guilt, or at least the public acknowledgement of the situation, is completed.</blockquote>
Basically a more eloquent version of what I has trying to say.
Coach K and everyone in the athletic department had an obligation (morally and legally) to report it to the authorities or campus police to investigate. The most troubling part of the article is the timing of the dismissal. The secretary for the Duke basketball team (a Duke senior) found out about the allegations in January 2015 and quit the job because of how the university and the AD were handling it. He was called in by a higher up in the AD to talk about it on January 22nd, and then Sulaimon was dismissed a week later. To me, it looks like the AD saw this was probably going to go public and then dismissed Sulaimon.
I don't doubt that Coach K has his faults and may even be in the wrong in this case... but that seems like a stretch. Sounds more like a guy who got snubbed and is holding a grudge.
don't know about that. Coach K is every bit the cult of personality in college basketball that Joe Pa was in college football. Now I am not saying that this remotely resembles the Penn State thing, but nobody would ever say it even if it did. It is like, not acceptable, for anybody within the mainstream sports reporting world to speak ill of him. I really don't know of any real way to measure what kind of a person or how ethical of a coach he is because the question cannot and never really will be presented in a fair and balanced way.
Coach K has really been a pompus, out and out jerk to the media for about the last 10 years and not a word from them. He is untouchable.
He was asked about the allegations today. He didn't say "We won't comment on that out of respect for the people involved" or "I'm sorry but I can't talk about that."
No.
His response? "I'm not talking about that. Thanks for asking though." Dick, in the third degree.
I mean. He is viewed as some kind of god who doesn't have to answer such questions because he is Coach K. His answers boil down to Heisenberg like "because I say so" declarations. He really is a raging meglomaniac. I don't think he has always been that way but he has changed in the last 10 years. I am not sure he is a guy I would want my kid to play for anymore.
I can see the Izzo similarities but he is not in anywhere close to the same class as K. I like Izzo infinitely more. And that is saying something.
When I first read that, I thought it said
"He is undouchable".
I hear ya, but there are some pretty stark differences...
Joe Pa had been a figurehead - and probably suffering from dimentia - of a program that had not been relevant for many years. Coach K was the face of not only the most succesful MBB program, but also USA basketball... Basically I'm saying that Coach K was still a public figure whereas Joe was symbolic at best.
Either way, you'd need to be a serious Duke hater to compare this situation to that of Penn State
of why I said that this was nothing like the Penn State case.
∴ , Muttley ______________________.
+1 MGoPoints for Correct Answers
Fair enough... I guess I've never really liked Coach K or thought too much of him, so its surprising to me to hear so many people believe he is above question.
now!!! For those that gif.
EDIT: beaten to the punch.
A popcorn gif in this instance, to me, is rather distasteful. If Duke committed recruiting violations or paid their players, sure. But when someone is accused of sexually assaulting two women it is a no lose situation for everyone involved. I'm not going to celebrate the possibility that two girls were sexually assaulted, nor would I celebrate the possibility that someone had false accusations of this magnitude hurled at them.
It's sad that the victims gave testimony saying that they didn't want to press charges for fear of retribution. I skimmed the article and I'm not well-tuned in to Duke's culture or anything of that nature, but it's just so disappointing to me that people can't put aside sports fandom in favor of rational human decency. Hopefully this all gets resolved and that all parties get appropriate closure.
Not going to touch this one but glass houses all around if we cluck about it here at Michigan considering what just went down in our recent football history. If you imply a coach should dismiss someone for an accusation we have no legs to stand on if anyone in this fanbase wishes to wag a finger.
True, the cases are very similar, but I have a feeling Coach K won't get the same treatment that Brady Hoke received. And in some defense of Brady Hoke, Gibbons' alleged assault happened under Rich Rodriguez and the old AD (Bill Martin) and was never pursued at the time. The case was only reopened by the university after the new Title IX guidelines went into place. I don't think Hoke handled it well after the case was reopened, but at this time, it looks like he had no knowledge of Gibbons' allegations until the case was reopened. Gibbons was at least suspended from the team while his case was being heard, and then he was dismissed.
In this case, Coach K, the Duke AD, and the university knew of the alleged assault and decided not to investigate or report to the proper authorities as they are legally obligated to do. They had full knowledge of the accusations and decided to let him play for another 10 months for some reason.
but neither accusor in this case went to the police or the student council to make charges. At least one said they did so out of fear of backlash from fans and other students similar to what happened with the Jameis Winston case.
Reports now seem to suggest it was more than 2 women for Sulaimon eventually, but if there were no charges ever pressed against him and no university investigation what would you want the coach to do?
Be judge jury and executioner with his fabled law degree of course.
I'm not a Duke fan - and K has always seemed a bit sanctimonious - but I know plenty of people who are relatively connected to the University. He's been successful to the point of not needing to tolerate players who will endanger the program. As mentioned earlier, K likely kept Sulaimon in the doghouse until the story was formalized.
of these incidents is that, unsurprisingly, sexual assault is a no-win situation regardless of how it is handled.
i mean ideally you'd just institute a team or school policy that says, if x happens, there are y consequences. but there are too many other variables to come up with some set in stone rules to handle all of these cases.
Not a good year for the ACC. UNC's academic scandal, Lville's best player being charged with rape and now this story. Prayers out to the victims.
These incidents are tough especially when there are no criminal charges. This is a University that had allegations against a whole bunch of lacrosse players not that long ago that most believe were unfounded that destroyed a lot of peoples lives and reputations. The flip side is you don't want to end up like Penn State where it looks like you are turning a blind eye to people being abused.
how this looks bad for the school or the coach. There were accusations, but no complaint was made to the authorities and no charges were filed. Are they supposed to kick every kid off of every team each time there's a he-said / she-said type situation?
If I was fired from my job because of an unsubstantiated accusation, I would probably sue my employer.
And just to be clear, I'm not making a judgment as to guilt or innocence in this situation.
“repeatedly struggled to meet the necessary obligations,” - from the official statement RE: Sulaimon's dismissal from the team
Even back in January, this was close to the only word that the team or Krzyzewski had on the matter actually. Even when asked about the circumstances of Sulaimon's then-unexpected removal from team at the end of January, there was no comment from anyone at Duke.
If you read the linked article, it chronicles Sulaimon's many other troubles (which pale in comparison to what is alleged in this article) as well as highlights, the former being things that were part of his dismissal, I imagine. These include showing up on campus out of shape in the late summer of 2013, which eventually caused him to lose his starting role to apparently being kicked out of repeated practices this season for unspecified issues. Per that article, the "last straw" (whatever it was) came during the ND trip.
But the timing seems awfully convenient for me. The secretary for the basketball program quits becuase of how the AD and Coach K is handling the alleged sexual assault, and the player happens to get kicked off the team a week later after the AD had a sitdown with the former secretary? And what transgression could possibly have been the final straw that was worse than 2 alleged sexual assaults?
And stayed engaged with law enforcement during the investigation process. There's a lot of support for sexual assault vicims on university campuses and virtually no support for the accused.
But instead of this, no report was made to police nor to university officials. No legitimate admissable evidence was collected to corroborate the claims of sexual assault. And all we're left with today (+12 months later) are the words of the victim.
That's just great.
So now what?
Well, we're promised a "tiger team" of university judicial board members setting up some kind of mock civil-like trial where the lowest standard of proof (preponderance of the evidence) will either save or destroy the accused, a crack crew of CSI-wannabe private investigators attempting to collect statements and evidence years after the crime occured, while university and athletic department officials attempt mental gymnastics to explain to the media about who knew what and when.
What a cluster f.
And no, I don't think it's particularly helpful to the alleged victims in this case to keep comparing every sexual assault allegation to the train-wreck chain of events in the Jameis Winston rape allegation and investigation.
This is what we call a kangaroo court.
from the outside looking in. It's hard to put yourself in the place of a young sexual assault victim. I can imagine that going through the legal process can be intimidating, along with the reactions you might have to deal with from a wide range of people. That's why so many assaults go unreported. Accusing a star basketball player at Duke carries extra attention, extra publicity and extra scrutiny, with many people looking for reasons to disbelieve you. All that support you mention will be needed.
No one is asking for him to be dismissed from school without a hearing or arrested immediately, but I think there are a lot of steps you are missing here. The first one being that some investigation needed to take place.
would have started if either of the alleged victims had reported something to the proper authorities.