Can we talk about the offensive line and what this means?

Submitted by wolverine1987 on

When you go through the offensive snowflakes thread you find that 90% of the discussion is around JOK's performance, understandably so. But I have to say that the largest impact this game made on me, beyond the happiness for JOK, was that it appeared to the untrained eye that our o-line is regressing, not progressing. Purdue came into the game with 1.5 sacks- against bad teams, yet there was constant pressure throughout the game. In fact only JOK's feet kept us from disaster a couple of times. If this was Iowa/PSU/OSU fine, you might say those guys are better than our inexperienced guys on the right side. But Purdue objectively has inferior talent on both sides of the ball, and yet: Ulizio continued to get owned. MO was shaky, and the rate of mental busts all over the line looked to me to be the highest so far this year. 

I don't know man, not to debbie downer this win but that was concerning. You guys agree or am I too negative?

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schreibee

September 24th, 2017 at 2:01 PM ^

Onwenu will be a NT, as he always should have been, perhaps this year, more likely next due to time constraints.

The annoying doomsayer who fired us all up by saying it can't mean anything good that RT was still unsettled as the season approached has proven to be correct. One of the frosh OT should be instilled at RT by sparty game, and maybe Runyan is the better choice at RG?

And the total failures of the RB to both blitz protect AND to secure the ball need to be addressed in an urgent way!

Joined: 11/02/2009

MGoPoints: 21143

khowe834

September 24th, 2017 at 11:14 AM ^

Yea didn't help when Speight was in, who held the ball way too long and can't move, JOK was easily able to move the ball when he was decisive and let it fly. 

Joined: 04/22/2011

MGoPoints: 220

MGoStrength

September 24th, 2017 at 11:16 AM ^

We are not a power running team that can run first and then throw off playaction.  That doesn't work for us.  The only time we are effective running is when the passing game is working first or we run in obvious passing situations.  We have to be a pass first offense to open up the running game.  Which also means we have to have a QB that can deliver short/intermediate passes relatively accurately without turning the ball over.  And, we have to have shorter, quicker routes that don't take too long to develop and don't require too many complicated reads for the QB or routes for the WRs.  If the coaches vision is to have a power running game, with long slow developing passes, play action, complicated WR routes, and difficult reads for the QB we are doomed for failure.  That can't be the style of our current players.  They are not ready for that and I'm not sure when they will be, but it probably won't be this year at all.  Surely our coaches know this.  But, it seems like we are forced into this understanding only after a first half of trying to be something we are not.

Joined: 07/29/2010

MGoPoints: 20002

MGoStrength

September 24th, 2017 at 11:16 AM ^

We are not a power running team that can run first and then throw off playaction.  That doesn't work for us.  The only time we are effective running is when the passing game is working first or we run in obvious passing situations.  We have to be a pass first offense to open up the running game.  Which also means we have to have a QB that can deliver short/intermediate passes relatively accurately without turning the ball over.  And, we have to have shorter, quicker routes that don't take too long to develop and don't require too many complicated reads for the QB or routes for the WRs.  If the coaches vision is to have a power running game, with long slow developing passes, play action, complicated WR routes, and difficult reads for the QB we are doomed for failure.  That can't be the style of our current players.  They are not ready for that and I'm not sure when they will be, but it probably won't be this year at all.  Surely our coaches know this.  But, it seems like we are forced into this understanding only after a first half of trying to be something we are not.

Joined: 07/29/2010

MGoPoints: 20002

Michifornia

September 24th, 2017 at 11:21 AM ^

I don't know how good Purdue's line is.  The one guy who was an all state wrestler seemed like a stud.  But my overall take was, wow, our O line is not good.  I'm by no means an expert or coach but I gotta believe our schemes are not effective at all.  There were about 2 holes the entire game (Evans scored on both).

Whatever the issue is, if it doesn't get better by psu, our championship run is in jeopardy.

GO BLUE!!

Joined: 10/03/2013

MGoPoints: 13813

markusr2007

September 24th, 2017 at 11:32 AM ^

Purdue sold out against the run. They did the exact same thing against all prior opponents also, incl Louisville.
And Michigan failed to move on the ground in the first half avg something like 1 ypc and 30 yards.
Horrible.

Don Brown was not the only one making halftime adjustments. Drevno, Hamilton and Frey made some changes.

UM was held to 139 rushing yrds and 3.2 ypc but had 2 rushing tds.

The offense is still behind the defense.
But it will catch up and improve.

MSU got destroyed by ND and now hosts a pissed off Iowa team nxt Saturday.
Michigan gets to heal up, correct errors, watch MSU game film.

The OL is going to be really good by year end if they can avoid injury.

Joined: 10/21/2008

MGoPoints: 19372

HarbaughsLeftElbow

September 24th, 2017 at 11:35 AM ^

I wonder how much the insane heat affected the mental aspect of the game, especially for the big young OL. I sat by the Michigan bench and the sun and heat was insane (Purdue's bench was in the shade the entire time)--making it hard to focus on anything. 

Maybe its grasping at straws but they seemed better in the second half. 

Joined: 08/22/2016

MGoPoints: 1651

Ajcoss

September 24th, 2017 at 11:47 AM ^

After hearing all the hype this week on Nico and Oliver in practice, I was excited to see what they could do. They even take any snaps? Saw Ways getting some snaps, but nothing on these 2 freshman. Anyone have insight?

Joined: 01/04/2017

MGoPoints: 8208

BoxLunches

September 24th, 2017 at 12:13 PM ^

I think we all agree the O-line needs to be better & running backs need to block better.

In what I have seen of the Harbaugh World, the mistakes will provide many learning opportunities. Kids will be getting coached up these next 2 weeks.

Looking forward to a tighter knit O-line after they work on the weaknesses. At this point in the season, the strength and conditioning takes a back seat to honing football smarts. I think they can do it.

We are lucky to be able to lean on the D while the O finds the way.

Joined: 11/28/2015

MGoPoints: 911

YaterSalad

September 24th, 2017 at 12:22 PM ^

Frey has them running a zone blocking scheme vs the power they were running the last two years. I think it just takes time to break in new starters - biggest is taking your experienced center and moving him to LT while you have a geeen right side of the line. Add to it a scheme change and you're beginning to take steps backwards. I think the bye week will help drill some issues found in film and we'll look much much better against Sparty in two weeks.

Joined: 03/29/2010

MGoPoints: 1122

ppudge

September 24th, 2017 at 12:25 PM ^

I don't know how much he played but on Evans' first TD, Runyan had a great deal block. I'm guessing he might find his way into the lineup after this improvement week.

Joined: 10/19/2008

MGoPoints: 11439

taistreetsmyhero

September 24th, 2017 at 1:46 PM ^

we haven't faced any defensive fronts that can test their physical abilities. They aren't getting bull-rushed. They aren't getting dominated by a Gary, Hurst, or Winovich who can rip through them.

Instead, they're just failing to identify the right guy to block damn near every play.

Joined: 08/08/2012

MGoPoints: 39396

micheal honcho

September 24th, 2017 at 1:52 PM ^

That coach himself grabbed the play calling in the 2nd half? Just the camera shots showing Jim between plays looked like he was a lot more active with his flip chart and more communicative with the QB.
Maybe just due to new/less familiar O Korn but I felt like JH was calling that O himself and Pep was not as much.

Joined: 10/27/2010

MGoPoints: 2768

Sten Carlson

September 24th, 2017 at 2:27 PM ^

As a fanbase I think we need to understand that all (almost all?) the micro points discussed are merely symptoms of the macro situation of what I call the, "OL Pipeline and Development." Further, in saying this, I'm not "making excuses" nor absolving the current staff of their share of culpability. But, if one does even a cursory analysis of the OL P&D it becomes clear (at least to me) that it's not been "right" since before Rich Rod took over from Carr. I know this is going to get massive resistance from many in here as many refuse to accept that "pipeline" issues can span so many years, but it's clear to me that Michigan is suffering from rotten seeds that were sown way back in 2010 AND a spat of "bad luck"/injuries. OL play is unlike any other unit on a football team. They're a true "unit" who have to act in such amazing synchronization that it almost beggers belief. We all know this, but do we all really understand how roster issues play into this? I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that since RR neglected to take a single OL in 2010 the Michigan OL machine has been chugging in fits and starts. The problem isn't one guy -- so pointing to Lewan, Molk, etc. isn't really relevant. The problem is the unit class by class. In an ideal world you'd have 5 OLinemen in every class who cycle through, playing AS AN ENTIRE UNIT, in their 4th and 5th year. Every 2 years, like shark teeth, an entire new unit -- who have ALL played together for 3 seasons -- with the necessary chemistry and communication. Obviously this utopian view is unrealistic. But, Michigan has seen basically its polar opposite -- a mishmash or guys with a random assortment of quality, experience, skills, ceilings, coaching, and schemes. Once again, Michigan finds itself with a hodgepodge line made up of guys who have NOT been working as a unit for 2-3 years. Pipeline, pipeline, and once again pipeline. I get it, "this is Michigan" and that other (lesser) program have 2-3 star guys playing (relatively) well. I get it. But to me, it's not how good they are individually but AS AN ENTIRE UNIT that is the issue. This MUST change for Michigan to have the dominate line we're all wanting to see. Will it? I don't know but we've got some young guys playing, with more guys in the wings. Hopefully they develop into that intergraged unit with subsequent OL classes feeding into that OL P&D cycle. It's clear that opposing DC's see this and do everything they can to try to confuse and pressure the OL. Add into that the fact that they don't fear the QB, and it's load up and blitz all day long. Not many OL's can stop that, but it only takes a few good pickups to force the DC to back off -- which we saw once JOK came in. The problem is that on most plays -- seemingly -- at least one OLineman (and a RB?) miss someone and it blows up the play. THAT is continuity and communication as well as skill/talent. It's a confounding situation, unfortunately, but one whose seeds (maybe) were sown a few recruiting cycles ago.

Joined: 11/16/2009

MGoPoints: -56

TheCool

September 24th, 2017 at 3:11 PM ^

On the play where Speight was injured, Cole looked directly at the blitzer and slid to the left to double team another rusher. All O linemen make mistakes, but there were plenty in this game. Some of the sacks were coverage sacks though.

Joined: 07/13/2011

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