The 2019 offensive line will be the best since...?
I'm in the process of reviewing film from the 2018 season, and I'm getting excited for what the offensive line will be capable of accomplishing this season. I started to think back to the last time Michigan had this much talent on the offensive line. I think we're in a very good position to have backups like Andrew Stueber/Jalen Mayfield (whichever one doesn't start), Stephen Spanellis, Joel Honigford, and Chuck Filiaga, not to mention some other highly touted guys who are still young.
Looking back through the lineups, I went back to the year 2000 to find an offensive line that had this much talent, IMO. Michigan had talented players under Carr (Long, Baas), Rodriguez (Schilling, Lewan, Omameh), Harbaugh, and even Hoke, but not this much across the board.
That 2000 team was (L to R) Jeff Backus, Steve Hutchinson, David Brandt, Jonathan Goodwin, and Maurice Williams.
Now, I'm not saying that this 2019 unit will be as good or has as much high-end talent (Backus > Runyan, Hutchinson > everyone ever, Williams > Stueber/Mayfield), but the line this season could very well be #2 behind them.
Was 2011 line good or was that just Denard?
edit: fixed the name. Thanks to the person below
An MSU corner was on our OL?
No fly zone. That’s why Denard ran so much.
At least 2007.
August 3rd, 2019 at 10:00 AM ^
Um, no -- that's not a reasonable cut-off point.
I posted this a couple of days ago and I think it's relevant here:
August 3rd, 2019 at 12:01 PM ^
NARRATOR: Greg Frey did not, in fact, lack in Suck.
August 4th, 2019 at 10:11 PM ^
Funk and Drevno swallowed.
August 3rd, 2019 at 12:22 PM ^
I missed that the first time you posted it. Thanks for linking again.
August 3rd, 2019 at 12:35 PM ^
You thought the mid-2000s were the era of suck (which was a prevalent feeling at the time).
You/we had no idea that an avalanche of suck was about to descend on the Michigan football program. And when we finally climbed out of the suck zone, we got stuck on the mediocrity plateau for another 4 years.
Harbaugh has put us back onto our 90s “very good” plane. Now, can he finish the climb and get us to the B1G and National Championship summits?
We shall find out in the next 6 - 30 months.
What’s funny is the 90s weren’t even that great except for a season where they had an all time player that won the heisman trophy. That loaded 2000s line with an all-time Michigan running back was 9-3. Jim Harbaugh’s been 10-3 every year except one where he was one his third string Quarterback with a much worse offensive line. If Jim had the talent of those teams Carr had, he would have won a lot more than Carr did. And people here hate Harbaugh for going 10-3 consistently. That 2000 team also barely squeaked by Wisconsin, Illinois, OSU, and Auburn. They were much closer to 8-5 or worse than they were to 10-2 or better.
I agree with almost everything you said except there were 2 season in the 90s with all time players that won the Heisman!
Don’t ever forget “Goodbye (OSU)... Hello Heisman”
I'm having trouble following this. Are you saying RR "finally climbed out of the suck zone?" He did rebuild the team to a winning record but most people on here would say that was the worst of it. Certainly the Hoke years weren't a "mediocrity plateau." The records over his 4 years were 11-2, 8-5, 7-6 and 5-7. That's a painful downhill slide, not a plateau. One of those records was quite good. Two of those records, in my view, are less than mediocre. The 4-loss years from 1993-96 were a "mediocrity plateau."
I think you probably took my wording a bit too literally.
However, since you asked, RR took a team in decline and blew it up and the avalanche landed on us. He then took the program back up to the suck / mediocre borderline with a burgeoning offense and some talent on defense.
I would call the Hoke period mediocre - the record and team got worse each year but it overstated what was happening on the field. The 11-2 team should have probably been 8-4 but caught some breaks and got the singularly bad OSU team of the last 25 years. The Sugar Bowl was one of the worst top tier bowl games I have ever seen. Michigan barely beat an mediocre and disinterested VT team.
The 1993-1996 period [which I saw live (I was as at UM from 91-95) and had season tickets when I lived in michigan up to 1999] was an interesting and weird time. They had as much talent and could beat anybody in the country when they were on. But they would have 3-4 games per year where they were just abysmal and could / did lose to some really meh teams.
Lots of things were blamed for this - mainly the coaches - but amongst them were Michigan recruiting top talent from across the country but losing focus on the Michigan / Ohio grinder types. Star gazers would have been happy but everyone else was pissed until the 97 magic season.
August 3rd, 2019 at 12:45 PM ^
One particular thing that you wrote really foreshadowed what was about to happen... recruiting in the late Carr era really fell apart in terms of effort and scouting. The staff got way too comfortable - Brian has brought this up on several occasions.
Ron English, who was young and hungry back at the time, told a story to Sam Webb about the recruitment of DeSean Jackson. Dude worked day and night for months recruiting this kid and his family to come to Michigan. Jackson was a 5 star WR with game breaking hands and speed.
Finally, DeSean tells Ron that he is committing to Michigan and when Ron calls Ann Arbor to relay the news, he is told they are full at WR and that Jackson should go elsewhere.
Do you think that 2006 Game could go differently with Jackson taking the top off the OSU defense. I can guaran-fucking-tee you that nobody on App State was going to be able to cover Jackson in 2007.
WTF???!?!?
August 3rd, 2019 at 12:56 PM ^
I looked up the 2005 recruiting class and, to be far, they did have Manningham and Bass (who would have been an all-timer if he doesn’t get hurt); however the WR3 in that class was a guy whose last name was Savoy.
Now imagine Jackson lining up with Manningham, Breaston, and Arrington. That is up there with the all-time WR corps for Michigan.
August 3rd, 2019 at 12:59 PM ^
That would be an all time WR corps at any school at any time.
English said they took Savoy over Jackson. He also said the could have had Marshawn Lynch.
Carr would never tolerate Lynch's language.
Oh man - that is like a punch in the balls.
No...I don't think that the game would have turned out differently with DeSean Jackson. Michigan would have been too busy trying to establish the run to use him in a productive manner.
2011.
Taylor Lewan and Molk were all Americans
Schofield and omameh are still on nfl rosters
August 3rd, 2019 at 10:33 AM ^
That line might have more overall talent than the famed 2000 line with Hutchinson.
August 3rd, 2019 at 11:20 AM ^
Uh, no. The five starters on the 2000 line played in 676 NFL games and started in 583 of them. I strongly doubt if any other collegiate OL accomplished that.
August 3rd, 2019 at 11:26 AM ^
HELL NO.
The 2000 Michigan offensive line featured an all-upperclassmen line with Steve Hutchinson, Jeff Backus, Jonathan Goodwin, Maurice Williams, and David Brandt. Hutchinson, Backus, Williams, and Brandt were all seniors with Backus and Hutchinson both going in the 1st Round and Williams in the 2nd. Goodwin went in the 5th Round the following year in 2002.
All five of those guys made the NFL with a combined 583 career NFL games STARTED (Backus 191, Hutchinson 169, Goodwin 122, Williams 100, Brandt 1). I think it would be hard to find a Michigan line that could top that.
August 3rd, 2019 at 11:33 AM ^
Great minds think alike.
An aside...we name all these great Michigan offensive linemen but always seem to overlook arguably the greatest tackle to wear the maize and blue: Mike Kenn. Started 251 games in the NFL. Went whole seasons without a penalty.
August 3rd, 2019 at 11:48 AM ^
There were a lot of great players in that era between 1997-2000, the best 4-year period since Bo retired and possibly since the 1970s. Charles Woodson and Tom Brady steal most of the headlines, but Hutchinson, Backus, and Brandt were 4-year starters on the OL during that time and the backbone of the offense.
If Williams and Goodwin had not got in trouble with the law and suspended for the 1999 season, I think the 1999 Michigan team wins the National Championship just with that offense. That team was down two NFL starters on the OL and still finished 10-2 and #5 in the country. Will Peterson getting kicked off the team hurt as well.
August 3rd, 2019 at 12:14 PM ^
The late 90's were peak Lloyd Carr. He kinda put it on cruise control after that.
August 3rd, 2019 at 12:37 PM ^
Four of the 2011 starters were good but there was no depth.
Just curious if you could elaborate on what you saw on the film that had you excited? Personally, this time of year, you could show me some 2009 film and I’d probably be excited still
The OL should be very good...hopefully they will ascend to the "great" status. I love the potential of the in-coming class but I cannot imagine any redshirts being burned.
When I was growing up, I didn't realize it was possible for Michigan to have a bad or even mediocre line. If Michigan needed 2 yards, they got 2 yards. If they needed to control the ball to finish a game, that's what they did.
I don't know what to say about the last 10-12 years or however long it's been. I can't get excited until after I have seen it. It might take the entire season before I know it's real.
August 3rd, 2019 at 11:37 AM ^
Carr left OL depth bare for RR, who recruited well first few years, then faded. Hoke in my opinion recruited OL horribly, despite all the stars. Harbaugh struggled for awhile but got act together in year 3. He still has not locked down a top LT.
August 3rd, 2019 at 12:28 PM ^
That's not fair to RR who only had 2 full years to recruit. He was sabotaged by Brandon in his last year but was still able to get a commitment from Jake Fisher.
August 3rd, 2019 at 12:35 PM ^
In three classes Rich Rod recruited three quality offensive linemen. Lewan, Schofield and Omameh. The rest were mediocre to bad or injured from the get go. Barnum, Mealer, Wermers, O'Neill, Q Washington, Pace, Khoury.
?
Wermers was the commitment Lloyd Care accepted where people went apeshit because he was a 3*. Back then it was expected that all of the linemen would be highly rated.
August 3rd, 2019 at 11:52 AM ^
"When I was growing up, I didn't realize it was possible for Michigan to have a bad or even mediocre line."
Brady Hoke and Darrell Funk say Hello.
That's what I'm saying. I grew up before they got here.
Magnus is posting optimistic OPs on the board, evenyoubrutus has turned into a cynical douche. The world is turned upside down right now.
...human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!
August 3rd, 2019 at 10:55 AM ^
Embed for Board
August 3rd, 2019 at 10:52 AM ^
Et tu Brute? BPONE??
People are overrating this offensive line because of the interior, the tackle situation is extremely iffy. Runyan was fine last year but couldn’t handle elite guys on his own and that is likely to be the case this year as well. Both rt guys will be first time starters and while they’ve had another year in the program neither could push for time at an exceedingly mediocre spot last year in a world where truly elite talent is starting by early even at places like bama on the line. Our tackles look a lot like last year to me, good enough for most of the season, likely a liability that needs to get schemes around for the toughest games.
I've kind of assumed that Runyan will have flipped to RT by the end of the season as the younger guys develop.
I kind of agree, if you had said that with a more optimistic tone. You havent seen them yet this year, improvement is always possible. Ben Gedeon rode the pine his whole M career while Bolden and Morgan proved far less capable on the field (admittedly, this is just one example and I dont have a whole lot more). It's possible we have players ready to go.
If you need a glass-half-full spin on it, Penn State's offensive line was below average according to their own fans leading into Moorhead's arrival. And they promptly won a ton of games, beat OSU, won the conference, etc.
Hopefully the spread elements, ability to freeze an end with options, and all that jazz can mitigate what I agree was an unimpressive season pass blocking on an island by Runyan. Maybe if we are rid of play action, 7-step drops, we'll have less occurrences of Tackles trying to handle speed rushers in open space.
It seems like quick passes will be in the playbook this year, that might help.
August 3rd, 2019 at 10:36 AM ^
I agree up until the point where you talk about our RTs. RT should be an upgrade this year.
August 3rd, 2019 at 10:42 AM ^
I mean I hope so but there isn’t any film to back that up, just practice hype which is always a Russian roulette of whether it’s true or bullshit. Also neither is going to be better than runyan or he would be getting pushed at lt and that is still just a good not great player
August 3rd, 2019 at 10:43 AM ^
People are overrating this offensive line because of the interior
Maybe so, but good god that interior could be insane.
Yeah what do we have there? Senior Bredeson? 2nd-year built-for-C Ruiz. Nimble 400 lb. Onwenu.
Also I'd disagree that tackle was exceedlingly mediocre last year. Probably worse than that at the beginning actually. But better than that in the losses.
August 3rd, 2019 at 12:24 PM ^
The tackle situation isn't that iffy. We have an upperclassman returning starter at LT, and although he wasn't a star last season, he had a solid season and there's no reason to think he won't improve a little off where he was at the end of the season. The biggest thing that can kill an OL is a poor LT, and we know we won't have that. RT will be the only spot where we're starting a new guy, but we have two solid options there.
Considering we know the entire will be ELITE, the fact that we have a few questions on the outside doesn't make that situation "extremely iffy." It's no more iffy than any other top team has, assuming they aren't returning all 5 starters.