Michigan 6-0 mid-season comparisons. Who had it better....and what were the final results

Submitted by M_Born M_Believer on October 12th, 2021 at 5:51 PM

OK, I thought this was a very good thread topic and decided to pull together some of the stats and records from each of the teams ('06, '11, '16, and this year).  I organized them by position group and found this website very helpful in pulling the data.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/michigan/2006.html

FYI - It goes way back in season stats.  I kept clicking all the way back to 1960 before I got bored and stop.  Very helpful.  Very useful.  They also included an NFL shield next to each player that played, not exactly sure what the criteria was (just drafted or actually made a team or actually played in a game).  I don't think the site was entirely accurate, but I did note some of the players in position groups that had the NFL logo.  Spoiler alert, this really highlights some of the special position groups that we were fortunate to have.

I will post the comparison table for each position for each of the years and then add my own take.  Look forward to the comments and stories to follow

 

First up.....QUARTERBACK

Based upon QBR rating, Cade is hanging in there with each of the other starting QB.  A strong data point for why he is the starter and deserves it for this year.

My ranking of the position groups...

1) 2011 - To me, Denard was truly special, what is obviously not included above was the running ability he brought that none of the other can touch. 

2) 2021 - I put the 2021 team second because of the combination of Cade and JJ.  Henne's stats as ever so slightly higher that Cade (QBR of 143.4 v 142.3) but JJ is the far better backup

3) 2006 - Henne was very good hear, but no back up and his Y/A and AY/A were slightly below.  Again, this was very close

4) 2016 - Was Wilton good, yes.  But when comparing to the better teams of recent history.... 4th place....

and the 2021 team actually has a higher Yards per Attempt (Y/A) and Adjusted Yards per Attempt (AY/A).  Their formula is  = (Yards + (20*TD)-(45*INT))/Attempts

Another interesting note, Cade's current QBR rating would be 12th all time since 1985 (I stopped there because that is when learned about the forward pass with Harbaugh).  Here is the table....

NOTE: 7 of the top 10 come from what I consider the Golden Age of Michigan QB ('85-'00).  Wanna be an elite team again..... start consistently busting out the QBR in the Top Ten again.....

 

RUNNING BACKS

Here is my order (certainly to stir up some debate)

1) 2021 - Some might disagree here, but we are on track to have 2 - 1000 yard rushers.  Not done since DRob and Fitz did it back in 2011.  I am giving these boys the edge because the combination of Thunder (Haskins) and Lightening (Corum) set up a great base for an offensive game plan.

2) 2011 - Hard to argue when you have 2 - 1000 yard rushers

3) 2006 - He holds the records, he was one of a kind.  But even he has noted that Corum and Edwards are simply more talented

4) 2016 -  A very solid deep balanced group.  They finish 4th cause none of them were game breakers like the other groups have.

 

WIDE RECEIVERS

My take...

1) 2006 - Hard to argue when the group had 3 NFL players and 2 of them had expended careers.  PS this is also why I put Cade slightly ahead of Chad.  Chad had the benefit of a talented experience WR group.  Cade's is a work in progress.

2) 2016 - I really liked this group and along with the TE is what made 2016 so good.  The offense was so balanced.

3) 2011 - They are 3rd right now because they have a proven NFL receiver in the group.  This may change...

4) 2021 - TBD - Losing Bell holds them back and Johnson and Baldwin need more time to develop.  But so far this year, this group is 4th

TIGHT ENDS

My take:

1) 2016 - Jake Butt is the difference here.  But on top of that, this group was special.  This was a key to Jim's first real offense that would take advantages in RPS...

2) 2021 - All is improving, this is good....very good.  But certainly has more work to do before he can be compared to Butt.  Also this group is not as deep nor versatile.  But they are very good at blocking and that shows up in the running game.

3) 2006 - They finish ahead of '11 both from potential standpoint and depth.  Given that '11 only had 1 TE recording a catch.....well

4) 2011 - Offense was not really designed for a TE, the OC just had plays to incorporate a good player into the overall scheme.

OFFENSIVE LINE - No stats so this one is a ballsy feelsy take...  A nice project here would be to see what the over all +/- were for these players based upon Brian's UFR (not sure if he did these back in '06.  I joined in '11)

My take (again just gut feel from my memory)

1) 2006 - When you have the #1 overall pick on your line, kinda hard to argue against it.

2) 2021 - I like this line, I like what they are doing and the results on the running game as well as protecting Cade can not be debated (in my opinion).  There is a part of me that wants to make the #1 but they still need to prove it in the 2nd half of the season in upcoming contests and again, hard to argue when the other until had a #1 overall draft pick

3) 2016 - This line was good, suffered terrible injury that required some shuffling but the results can not be argued with.

4) 2011 - As with most of the other groups, they were good (obviously), but when comparing to these other groups....their 4th.  Plus I was always left with the feeling that DRob had the ability to make their mistakes go away....

DEFENSIVE LINE

My take:

1) 2016 - This is where the NFL logo really stood out. Six of the eight were drafted and playing sometime in the NFL.  Say what you want about Hoke, but this guy knew talent specifically for DL (see also the SDSU is #2 this year in Rush Defense).  This was the closest we got to feeling like Alabama in terms of talent and depth in a position group.

2) 2006 - Any line that had Woodley and Branch on it would be considered elite.  Just not the same depth as the '16 line.

3) 2021 - Hutch makes this line, but the improvement on Hinton, Smith, and Ojabo is making this line good.

4) 2011 - Veteran group led by RVB that played well.  But again, compared to the other groups....4th

LINEBACKER

My take:

This one is actually very close to call, but...

1) 2006 - I give this group the ever so slight edge as all three were consistent playmakers as for the 2nd group...

2) 2016 - Plenty of special players (Bush and Peppers), but McCray and Gedeon were just slightly below Burgess and Crable.  No qualms if this was flipped flopped

3) 2021 - Young group showing flashes.  Looking forward to next year with a year experience for NHG and Colson.

4) 2011 - Love Jake Ryan, but Demens and Morgan were good if not spectacular LBs.

SECONDARY

My take:

1) 2016 - NFL talent and a key part to the 2016 team being so good.

2) 2006 - Plenty of NFL talent, another toss up group just like the LB

3) 2021 - Dax Hill is the main reason they are 3rd.  Moten is improving (but I believe he was the culprit on NU first TD to Allen based upon alignment)

4) 2011 - Very similar in that going into that year everyone was scared to death about the CB.  Both are playing well, but hard to shake the visions of the previous years disaster

PUNTER/KICKER

My Take: This one surprised me a little as the legend of Zoltan lives fondly in my memories, but....

1) 2021 - To me this is the hidden gem of this team right now.  Moody has been money and Robbins is redefining punting.  Excellent Special Teams gives a team a huge advantage

2) 2006 - The legend of Zoltan the Great lives fondly in my memories

3) 2016 - Kenneth Allen was the man handling both kicking and punting could have put him #2

4) 2011 - Just a repeat, Gibbons makes the clutch FG in the Sugar Bowl for the win but has a lower FG% and the punting does not compare

RETURN GAME

My Take:

1) 2016 - Peppers was a one man wrecking crew.  In addition his ability to field almost every punt was very good.  Rarely gave away hidden yardage

2) 2021 - First let me say that I love Breaston, he was truly a great return man.  With that being stated, Corum and Henning (sans the punt fielding in the NU game) has me getting on the edge of my seat each time, waiting for that big break away

3) 2006 - As stated Breaston was special.  Same mode as above.  Always got on the edge of my seat feeling that any kick he grab could very well go all the way.

4) 2011 - The pattern continues here.  Solid play but not matching up with the other teams.

OVERALL

I went back and summed up all the position groups and took an average to somewhat quantify comparing the teams.

The 2006 team came out on top (low score the better) slightly over the 2016 team.   The 2006 team had no '4' across the board.  Had there been a CFP in 2006, I believe they would have gotten in.  That would have been fun.  Balanced veteran team with special players scatter among the roster.  The 2016 team had more '1', but had two '4' to drag its score down.  With that being stated, only one tenth behind the 2006 team.  What is a little surprising is how close I feel about this years team.  Coming in at an average of 2.3 behind 2016 team (2.2) and the 2006 team (2.1).  Only '1' are for RB (pretty important) and the kicking game (again pretty important).

The 2011 teams numbers tell me what I had always believed.  Denard was special.....very special.  The rest of the team had veteran leadership and chemistry, but Denard made it happen....

Final note:

2006 -

> 11-2 overall

> 7-1 in conference 

> PF 380 - PA 207

> 8th in the final AP

 

2011 -

> 11-2 overall

> 6-2 in conference

> PF 433 - PA 226

> 12th in the final AP

 

2016 -

> 10-3 overall

> 7-2 in conference

> PF 524 - PA 183

> 10th in the final AP

2021 -

> TBD..... But it will be a thrill to watch.......

Comments

oakapple

October 12th, 2021 at 6:03 PM ^

You're comparing guys who've played half-a-season with guys who played full seasons. This leads to false equivalences, because the schedule is back-loaded.

For instance, you say that Michigan is on track to have two 1,000-yard rushers. That's true if you extrapolate on a straight line, but their production has slowed down in Big Ten play, and there are six conference games yet to go.

M_Born M_Believer

October 12th, 2021 at 7:31 PM ^

Could have done that but it would have taken some more detailed homework that honestly I do not have time for.  Plus who is to say one 6 games schedule it weaker or tougher than another.

I only put out the stats for information purposes.  Of course the 2021 season is incomplete as I noted in the end.

But I am just putting out my opinions of each group.  They are not based solely on stats (or projected stats).

JHumich

October 12th, 2021 at 6:52 PM ^

Yeah... and Cade won't get to play Northern Illinois and WMU six more times. Even as compared above, I don't think the data support the conclusions. In the backfield, 2021 is in a dead heat so far with 2016, and neither can really compare to 2006 or 2011. "Thunder and lightning" is more of a feeling than an argument. At QB, again Cade is basically Speight. And 2006/2011 are out in front of both of them.

We could go on, but this diary feels awfully optimistic. An honest take either compares JUST the first halves or gives every 2021 player/group an INC.

Teeba

October 12th, 2021 at 8:29 PM ^

Northwestern, Indiana and Maryland’s defenses have issues. Washington, Wisconsin and Nebraska have good defenses. The first half isn’t as far off from the second as one might think. 
Although not the best metric, an easy one to find is Total Defense (yards allowed). So far, the teams we’ve played are ranked:

2, 24, 35, 42, 59, and 86.

The teams remaining rank:

26, 54, 75, 76, 94, and 111.

M_Born M_Believer

October 12th, 2021 at 7:26 PM ^

Obviously the stats for the 2021 season is for 6 games.  My take is more on how I feel the groups played.  

Yes, the front have of the season was easier than the pending back half (actually there will be at least 7 games left given they have qualified for a Bowl game already).

But my opinion of the group is based upon what I see so far.  And I see that Corum is a special talent and has shown it over these first half of the season.  What will the final numbers be?  Who knows, but right now it doesn't change my opinion that Corum is special.

BTW - before you bring it up.  I love Haskins as well and that is exactly why I feel they are the best position group we have compared to the other 3 groups.

Just opening discussions on comparing groups.  If you have a different opinion, I would love to read about it....

mfan_in_ohio

October 13th, 2021 at 1:39 AM ^

The schedule is backloaded, but maybe less than you think. Northwestern may be the worst team on our schedule (NIU is 4-2, hasn’t lost since they played us, and just beat Toledo on the road, making them sort of as good as Notre Dame).  I’d take Western over Indiana as well. Maryland has reverted to their standard Quick Lane Bowl form. Also, no team on the remainder of the schedule has a defense like Wisconsin, and I don’t know that many teams will play as much Cover Zero and overcommit to the run if Cade rediscovers his deep ball.

Also, since we have (at least) one postseason game, we are less than halfway through the season. Corum just needs about 50 YPG and Haskins less than 75, which seems doable.

grumbler

October 12th, 2021 at 7:06 PM ^

You are assuming in this that all position groups are equivalent in value, and that the 11-2 2011 team was worse than the 10-3 2016 team and the untested 2021 team because they didn't use the tight end position very much.

You also grossly over-rate the 2021 lines and grossly underestimate the 2011 O and D lines, IMO.  I would be absolutely delighted if the 2021 version of both lines got good enough to compare themselves to their 2011 predecessors.

Similarly the secondary.  In no way is the 2021 secondary, so far, showing itself better than 2011 (which is third on this list) but I'd be happy to see them grow into a comparable pass defense (I don't think that they can get there in run defense, but it's a different game so that's less important).

M_Born M_Believer

October 12th, 2021 at 7:44 PM ^

I placed the 2011 team 4th because overall, I believe they did not have the talent as the other teams (never made any reference as the not playing a TE as the reason for their placement).

If you look at the scorecard, I have the '11 team 4th based upon my opinion that group by group, they had 8 out of 11 ranked 4th.  And again, this is not saying they are a bad team, but when compared to the '06, '16, and this years team I don't think they rank higher.

Did they get an extra win than the '06 and '16.  Yup, but as others have pointed out, they played the worst OSU team in 2 decades, but did win their bowl game (kudos for that).  So a 1 game variance is not that big of a factor.

I also noted that the '11 team, to me, highlighted just how special Denard was......

Again, enjoyed that season, enjoyed beating OSU and enjoyed winning the Sugar Bowl game....

As for the secondary, to me (again my opinion), Dax Hill makes the difference.  Both the '11 team and this team made / makes me nervous when it comes to the Corners.  No true #1 CB.  

So thank you for your opinion, but I will have to disagree based upon that I believe Hill is a difference maker.  Something the '11 group lacked...

befuggled

October 12th, 2021 at 7:26 PM ^

When I looked at it a while ago, I found that sports-reference.com was reasonably accurate--except sometimes for no reason I can see they didn't include the bowl results. Can't say that I looked at it in depth, though. 

BlueHills

October 12th, 2021 at 8:15 PM ^

Interesting analysis, and thanks for the work you put in!

We're in mid-season, so it's hard to know for sure where things stand. There isn't enough high-end B1G data. My hot take is that we haven't had a team with this potential in a while, and I can't help but wonder how much better things would have been if Bell hadn't been inured.

Nonetheless, I like watching this team play. It's fun, and that's why I like to watch Michigan football. That's not a bad thing.

Teeba

October 12th, 2021 at 9:01 PM ^

Very interesting diary. The one thing that doesn’t pass the smell test for me is that the 2016 team scored A LOT more points than the other teams. But the QB is 4th, the RBs are 4th, and the OL is 3rd. Jake Butt was an awesome tight end, but he’s not worth an extra 80-100 points over a season. I’ve always thought that 2016 offensive line was underrated.

stephenrjking

October 13th, 2021 at 12:16 AM ^

This is great work. Lots of excellent details, I appreciate it.

I *do* disagree with a few of the conclusions, and as others have observed, it's impossible to fairly judge the 21 team right now. Lots of Michigan teams looked really good through the first part of the season; not all of them wound up being good.

Also, a couple of your conclusions are... rushed? Our return game is promising, but the 2006 team had Steve Breaston, who was a serious scoring threat every time he touched the ball. Michigan's not close to that. On a smaller note, David Harris is kind of glossed over here--you rank him above the Bush/Peppers year, which is actually probably correct, but people forget how dominant Harris was.

But overall this is very good and worth the read. 

 

Tex_Ind_Blue

October 13th, 2021 at 1:02 AM ^

That 2006 team! Oof. And the 2016 defense! And Denard in 2011. 

Thanks for doing this. My memory of 2011 defense seems more imaginary than real. 

To compare the OLs, we can use sacks allowed, rushing yards gained, or PFF grades (if available). 

UgLi Eric

October 13th, 2021 at 3:37 AM ^

The only flaw in your reasoning is that you didn't stop the entire exercise and declare the 2021 the winner here... 

It should then become Denard v. Barrett and I think we all know how that ends.

1VaBlue1

October 13th, 2021 at 8:17 AM ^

This was a good read - very interesting to see the stats piled up together.  I don't really have any complaints about the (perceived) results, although extrapolating the '21 team to be better than 2011, right now, is a tough call.  I certainly hope it turns out to be true, though!

As for 2006, I don't think they would've gotten into a 4-team playoff anymore than they got into the 4-team BCS.  They were heavily penalized for a (extremely) late game loss in the biggest rivalry game in all of sports, on the road, one day after Bo Schembechler died suddenly, against the #1 ranked team in the nation.  I believe the BCS dismissal is the reason they had nothing left for USC.

2016 was setup, after OSU and before the CCG's, by the playoff committee to get in.  The only things that would've kept them out happened - Washington won the PAC 12 CG in a rout.  Tip o' the hat, and move on...

I have hope that this team can remove the need for gifts and win on the field.  But I do wonder about Cade.  If we get a Henne-like Cade the rest of the year, ohh boy!!!

MGoStrength

October 13th, 2021 at 10:56 AM ^

One, awesome stuff.  Thanks for all that work!  Two, as other's have said it's unfair to compare players and teams that played a full schedule to those that have only played half and have yet to play the most difficult games (MSU, PSU, & OSU).  Three, the most glaring problem for UM is also the most important position, which we all know has held us back, the QB.

Grbac is our highest ever QB rating at 161.7.  That's kind of depressing since OSU's last 4 years of QBs are all higher than that.  Stroud is currently putting up a 191.2.  Fields was 181.4 in 2019 and 175.6 in 2020 and Haskins was 174.1 in 2018.  Grrrrrr :/. I'd guess in general a 160 is probably the minimum threshold you need to be a NC contender.  To give some more context here are the QB ratings of the last several NCs.

  • Mac Jones: 203.1
  • Joe Burrow: 202
  • Trevor Lawrence: 166.7
  • Tua Tagovailoa: 199.4

The other major issue I see is WR.  Obviously we lost Bell who was our #1.  We had several All American WRs during Carr's tenure with Edwards, Walker, Terrell, etc.  We have not had an All American WR since Edwards in 2004.  The rest of the team has probably been good enough several years under JH to make a NC caliber team if we every had another Braylon at WR and some hypothetical QB that UM has probably never had that can put up a contending QB rating on par with modern offenses.

ShadowStorm33

October 13th, 2021 at 12:23 PM ^

It's interesting looking at the patterns in the years. The "6" years--2006 and 2016--had dominant feels to them. Yes, we started farther back in 2006, just inside the top 15 coming off a down year in 2005, but I feel like those paying attention were higher on our prospects (for me, at least, due in no small part to the analysis I got from Brian here). And once we went to South Bend and crushed #2 Notre Dame, I knew it was a special team. 2016 had that feel from the beginning. Harbaugh set the stage early; coming off a better than expected 2015 season and a dominating performance over Florida in the Citrus Bowl, he said something to the effect of, "next year we go for the big one." We started the year inside the top 10, and were in the top 5 after the first week. Both teams had NFL talent all over the field, especially on defense, and the performances (at least until November) were dominant. Looking back at 2006, I'm actually surprised we gave up as many points as we did in those pre-November games, because they felt more dominant than the scores would suggest. In 2016, we just straight up dominated everyone until that Iowa game, with really the lone exception being Colorado (which in many ways feels a lot like hockey's last game with Lake St., where we went down 4-2 before winning 7-4). Overall these teams just felt like teams of destiny.

By contrast, 2011 just felt different. It was a good team, no doubt, but it didn't have that dominant feel. There were only two games where we truly dominated, the demolition of Nebraska (which to be fair was a complete destruction of a quality team) and against a hapless Minnesota. Outside of those games, much of the season was the definition of Hoke Shits Gold(tm). We entered the 4th quarter of UTL trailing ND by 17, 6-6 OSU took us to the brink, and we beat VT in the Sugar Bowl despite only gaining 184 yards (and giving up 377). It was on the whole the luckiest season I can remember, and really felt like the team was greater than the sum of its parts, which often seemed like they were held together by duct tape and chewing gum.

We're only halfway through the season, but this year feels more like 2011 than 2006/2016. Much of it is likely residual from the past few years, but the team, especially the defense, feels sort of duct taped together, and instead of feeling like we're one of the frontrunners for the national championship, the more common feeling is wondering when the other shoe is going to drop. But even if the season ends up being more 2011 than 2006/2016 (which is still way better than most predicted going in), that's not necessarily a bad thing. While I would take the first 11 games of 2006 or 2016 over those of 2011 in a heartbeat, 2011 ended by beating OSU and winning a BCS bowl, something neither 2006 or 2016 could do. Finishes matter, and the finish to 2011 quite possibly makes it the most enjoyable season on the whole since 1999 or maybe 2003.

M_Born M_Believer

October 14th, 2021 at 9:51 AM ^

I really like your summary on the 4 teams.  I have to agree as my overall subjective ranking align with that (although I was surprised that the '21 team was close to the '06 and'16 teams)

I am a half glass full type of person.  I always have the opinion that one must believe in something before achieving.  I have never seen it work the other way around.  Negative attitudes only become self fulfilling.

I believe that our fanbase hold teh '06  team and the '16 team in high regard as they were the better years since the '97 NC team.

In the preseason thread, I had predicted a shaky 8-4 record (again the glass as full guy).  Now....9-3 seems like the floor and a 10 or 11 win season seems very likely (plus a bowl game).

PB-J Time

October 13th, 2021 at 1:03 PM ^

Thank you for going though this well done. One thing that really stood out to me is that we never have been a throwing to RB team. Our best RB gets ~1 rec a game and 100-150 yds a season?!? Other college teams incorporate their RB into pass game no? What is going on here?

Ali G Bomaye

October 13th, 2021 at 1:24 PM ^

I hope you're right, but a lot of these rankings feel like you're drinking the Kool-Aid with respect to the 2021 season. For instance, at QB, Chad Henne was a third-year starter who would be a second-round draft pick. Regardless of his backups, there's no way he should be behind McNamara and McCarthy at this point (I love our 2021 guys' talent, but they're still a big question mark). Likewise with the backfield rankings. And it's crazy to put the 2021 team above the 2006 team for returners when Steve Breaston was probably our best returner since Desmond Howard (or second-best, if you count Peppers above him) and Henning has had only 3-4 impressive returns.

Blue Middle

October 14th, 2021 at 3:26 PM ^

There's some recency bias, but man this is fun!  And great work!

I'd actually take our 2021 WRs without Bell over the 2011 group.  Henne and a bag of air is our best throwing QB of the bunch.

The 2011 season is fondly remembered (and should be) but the team overachieved against a weak schedule and needed luck to win a very winnable bowl game.