WTKA Roundtable 8/11/2022: If You're 5-11 You're Rounding Up
Things discussed:
- Brandon Naurato: Seems like a Marcus Freeman hire: will keep the recruiting going, could work out for a very long time.
- Worried about Warde Manuel's role. Appearance is that he wanted to keep Pearson, and the refusal of the department to explain their timeline only adds to speculation.
- Basketball phonebooks: Want to believe that Kobe Bufkin is now Kobe Buffkin.
- QB competition: It's a fan thing because we want to know when JJ is going to lead us to a natty, but the program has been clear that McNamara remains the starter. These guys are on a football team together, and that's how they're going to approach it: the primary goal is to win, not to start.
- Bruce Feldman's freaks. Michigan makes sure they are well represented by giving Feldman video and numbers. Still means something that they keep getting guys on there.
- Where's the pass rush coming from? They're going to have to do it the Ravens way.
- Linebackers: Don't compare Colson to Bush; he's more like Year 2 McGrone. He's also their best pass-rusher, but to use him that way they need to drop someone else into coverage.
- Minter vs Macdonald.
You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.
Segment Two is here. You can watch the video here:
The Usual Links:
- Helpful iTunes subscribe link
- General podcast feed link
- Direct download link (right-click/save as)
- What's with the theme music?
The public shouldn't be left in this zugzwang.
August 11th, 2022 at 10:57 AM ^
Here's all you need to know about the roster and what to read from it..... Jace Howard chose to list himself as a "G/F" and Tarris Reed listed himself as a "F" instead of a center. Those laughable designations should make you question anything else you read there such as Dug's height, TWill's height, Jett being a "guard" even though he's likely to start at SF, etc.
I'm sure Kobe put on weight - and that's a good thing. But the real question is whether he learned to play defense and got his outside shot where it should be.
August 11th, 2022 at 7:11 PM ^
Not concerned about Bufkin's outside shot. Needs to have figured out what to do on defense and needs the confidence of an alpha on offense.
August 11th, 2022 at 11:16 AM ^
For a guy who is pretty smart Craig seems to be willfully ignorant of the way investigations, employment protections, and procedure work. Yes the timeline looks bad but the idea that Michigan, or any organization is going to announce they received a report, the report was troublesome and the follow up action is further investigation is farcical. It would be a massive blunder if you wind up keeping the guy.
August 11th, 2022 at 12:07 PM ^
Yeah, I didn't really get that point. A public institution like UM is going to want an external team (like WilmerHale) to perform an investigation like they did for a variety of reasons but chief amongst them so they aren't put in a position where they have to disclose internal processes and results around an investigation in the event a lawsuit occurred. It's all about plausible deniability and so that's why you let a law firm ask questions and deliver a report. Doing a follow-up search is either going to give you duplicate answers that already support the findings you have on file OR you're going to find some conflicting/inconsistent responses that will serve you little beyond have a "he said/he said" conflict with the earlier report that may also lead to mistrust in your internal investigation.
So yeah, once you commission a report I can see the admin maybe checking in with a couple of people but otherwise that should be the bulk of their investigation and then they have to act on it. The report was sufficiently muted in some key places (the fact Pearson didn't seem to fire Shields in retaliation for some of the enumerated reasons) gave UM some technical outs if they had decided to retain Pearson but they had to do so quickly and with more conviction than they've shown.
August 11th, 2022 at 10:43 PM ^
Except WilmerHale was only hired to investigate the Shields situation and exonerated Mel with regards to that. However in investigating that they turned up intimations of numerous other bad things that they weren't directly investigating and did not thoroughly investigate and suggested UofM investigate those. Those are the things Mel got fired over. So it was not a duplicate investigation and was what WilmherHale suggested they do.
August 11th, 2022 at 2:24 PM ^
I don't think, necessarily, the "timeline looks bad." I don't know if the AD handled this reasonably or not, at least as a substantive matter. From what I know, in the end, not re-hiring Mel sure seemed warranted. But I continue to think it made sense for there to be procedural transparency. Instead, the AD has invited criticisms from reasonable sources (Brian Cook and Seth Fisher, among many others) that Warde was negligent in not firing Mel "right away."
The WH report was going to be public---at some point---anyway. The questions surrounding Mel---it was clear the AD had not negotiated a new contract---were all patent. We all knew there was a problem. We even knew, in some broad sense, the nature of the problems.
In this context, I do not see the issue with the AD providing some procedural interstices to the public. Either the AD pays attention to the WH report or not and I suggest paying attention was a good idea. To me, dope or other, it then made sense to talk about the general process, even in their understanding that it would take something remarkable to overcome the dicta of the WH report. The limited holding of the report, after all, favors Mel.
The way it was handled---procedurally--makes the AD look some place between chaotic and inept. At least to me. I sure would like to hear what the hell the AD was thinking/doing, but there are lots of things I would like to hear----and never will. It seems patent I am a very minority view, but I think the AD could have done better by being transparent about their processes. Letting the matter twist in the void the way they did, at least in my opinion, was not the way to go.
August 11th, 2022 at 7:09 PM ^
Yeah, my exact thoughts listening to that. I was like, dude, they don't owe an explanation if literally the only thing they know and can say is, eh, not good but we have more work to do so ask again later.
If providing procedural transparency only served to satisfy fan curiosity, there's no way they'd do it (and no reason to).
August 11th, 2022 at 11:47 AM ^
"...the primary goal is to win, not to start."
My hot take that is probably not a hot take. I don't think this is as true as people think it is with regards to most people. If you ask, I think most players would rather start and go 8-4 than be a backup/reserve and go 11-1. Because playing is fun! Wins are fun, but not as fun when you don't really play and factor into it. It's why there are so many transfers from great teams to less good teams. People want to play.
Now this is position dependent, of course a backup DL who plays 60% of the snaps cause he backs up both spots won't feel the same way.
August 11th, 2022 at 12:14 PM ^
That's why I think Cade will start and get the majority of the PT because he led Michigan to the B1G title, a win over OSU, and a playoff appearance. He'll likely get the majority of the locker room support for the reasons that I stated.
August 11th, 2022 at 1:05 PM ^
I think he will start, but we need to learn that "QB wins" is not a stat. McNamara's numbers against top 40 defenses are extremely average and that is in a very advantageous situation considering the run game, OL and receivers he has.
August 11th, 2022 at 2:05 PM ^
QB wins isn't a stat, I agree with you but I'm just stating the locker room pulse. Players would rather stick with the known player who helped them win a bunch of games as opposed to going with an unknown player.
August 11th, 2022 at 3:21 PM ^
Have you ever played?
August 11th, 2022 at 12:21 PM ^
This is a bad take. Winning matters full stop. Being a part of a winning team matters more than you can imagine. These guys are competitors, getting the opportunity to ply yourself against other quality players day in and day out matters. It’s why places like Alabama and Georgia are consistently competitors. Football players aren’t dumb, they can see when a guy is clearly ahead of them in terms of playability. Especially in college when development of guys can have a wide variance. If a guy doesn’t want to hang around and compete he should be at an 8-4 school. Your take my be true for most people but D1 football players make up 2.8% of the high school football players in a given graduation year, these guys aren’t most people.
August 11th, 2022 at 12:27 PM ^
You just made his point. Cade led the team to B1G title, a win over OSU and playoff appearance. QB is a different beast because win is all it matters to the players and the players would prefer Cade for this reason.
August 11th, 2022 at 1:25 PM ^
Eh, I think the players would prefer that the guy who wins the job in camp and into non conference with his play starts, regardless of who that ends up being. People are really overvaluing player loyalty to a particular player, the players want to win. Last year is last year, the players get more insight than us as fans from practice, etc as far as who they think gives the team the best chance to win in the current year. They will not be upset if JJ looks like he has improved enough to win the job and start, because the players also know when the lightbulb fully goes on for JJ he does in fact have a higher ceiling as a Qb and therefore could potentially elevate a team beyond just winning the conference.
That is not a knock on Cade, his play was good enough last year to win the conference when paired with a top notch running game and really good defense and he deserves credit for it. But that was last year and we also saw in the playoff that you need great Qb play not just good if you ever want to compete in the playoff and quite frankly I don't think they can replicate beating OSU often unless they get great Qb play. Last year only required a good game from Cade.
August 11th, 2022 at 2:06 PM ^
I used to work with D1 football teams and understand the locker room dynamic. That's not the case. The players would rather stick with the QB who helped them get there. There's a real risk of going with an unknown QB and if they don't win games, the coach can lose the locker room.
August 11th, 2022 at 2:26 PM ^
eyeroll at McCarthy being an "unknown qb"
August 11th, 2022 at 1:02 PM ^
I didn't say it didn't matter. But look at any normal transfer. Mike Dwumfor. He transferred to Rutgers for playing time. He got to start there and play a lot more than at Michigan where he would have been rotational only. If winning was the end all, be all, wouldn't it stand to reason he should stay at Michigan?
August 11th, 2022 at 1:16 PM ^
This thinking that a QB who has been on a Big Ten winning team can't be beat out for his job is odd to me. If JJ has improved enough in areas that Cade was better in last year he should start or at the very least split reps in non conference to determine the starter. It's not a knock on Cade as a good Qb in his own right to say JJ has a ceiling with his physical attributes that Cade can't match and therefore could elevate this team overall. We saw that a little bit against Georgia as the offense only moved the ball when JJ was in.
There has been precedent with other teams around the country for winning QB's to not neccassarily be the starter the next year if the other guy has higher top end potential and earns the job. I don't know who will start but JJ should get every opportunity to win the job in camp and in non conference. Who starts should be based on who can be a better Qb this season not based on just senority. Either way good being the floor regardless of who starts is a good problem to have.
August 11th, 2022 at 3:00 PM ^
I'm 6' tall.
Honest.
August 11th, 2022 at 4:35 PM ^
You guys are piling on Warde, but it seems obvious to me now... Warde had to wait til the report was released, and then hire Naurato. If he did so early on, there would have been uproar and alot of negative press and questioning the program, why they didn't rehire him and promoted an assistant.
August 11th, 2022 at 10:45 PM ^
1) They coulda released it themselves and done that much earlier.
2) Warde was the only one who wanted to keep Mel but got overruled by the regents and president.
What actually appears to have happened is Warde dithered and obfuscated to try to keep his old friend and a very good hockey coach/recruiter.
August 11th, 2022 at 5:45 PM ^
This was a really great listen. Enjoyed the focus on the defensive side of Michigan football team.
August 11th, 2022 at 10:47 PM ^
I can't believe you guys brought up Laettner (never knew that) but not Kevin Durant who is 7'0''+ but famously requires he always be listed at 6'10 or 11 because he wants to be and is a giant guard.
August 12th, 2022 at 6:12 AM ^
" I don't even know if they are going to be good'..Seth on the edge rushers, particularly opposite Morris. He kind of backtracked...but damn that's pretty harsh. I mean no one saw Aidan and Ojabo becoming THAT at this time last year...Many thought Aidan would be good but no where near THAT good. Kwity was viewed similarly before his last year....
So, I wouldn't expect all-time greatness but I would expect the guys that replace the two from last year to be at least 'good'.,,,think the program under Harbaugh has been outstanding at edge play.
August 12th, 2022 at 1:18 PM ^
- Football - I'm not going to argue details with these guys on their football takes as they've proven themselves. I watched the JJ highlight and was just happy Sanristil was right there even if he didn't have ideal position. I'm not as worried about his position switch (yet) just because this was probably the second team. You didn't see him out there with Cade, Bell, Johnson - this was JJ and Wilson.
- Hockey - I didn't quite align with Craig's approach, but in general I'm ALWAYS in favor of transparency and frequency of communication. Michigan continues to have this dinosaur approach to communication in all forms that is stupid and short sighted. I know they had Fort Schembechler for years and when RichRod opened up it bit us in the ass, but move on. Hell, the basketball team leaves for three games in the EU next week and all we're getting is one Juwan press conference. We don't know who they are playing, they won't stream them, they won't share stats, etc.
- Basketball - This is an area where I do think the guys could be more informed. Barnes played and you can't get a medical redshirt until you apply for one - which usually doesn't happen until their 5th year anyway. The roster analysis is stupid when you consider all heights are wrong and positions make no sense - thus putting the weights in doubt also. While I agree we have no guards, you should all realize that Jett is going to play the 2 some. There wasn't even mention of their overseas trip.
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