OT: Talking Cars Tuesday - Gas Money
That's right, it's Tuesday. Anyway, gas prices were up at least $0.50 per gallon compared to last memorial day. We're not at the $4/gal like we were a few years ago, but we're above the $2.50 that we've had for a while. With gas going back up is that going to affect any of your car buying purchases so far? Would you drive less? What kind of mileage do you get now? How much are you worried about it in your new car?
(Trying to avoid the geo-politics of gas pries. Between OPEC, fracking, infrastructure/gas taxes etc. let's just stick to the cars, eh?)
I bought a 2011 BMW 328ix in March I didnt really consider it but also feel like prices have jumped a significant amount since I bought. Still driving somewhere in the 80s on the highway though.
I do notice that I'm paying more at the pump, but I gotta go where I want to go, so you just pony up the $$.
As far as gas prices and vehicle purchases, I always try and buy a vehicle with the best gas mileage in the class of vehicle I'm considering. I'll probably be moving from a turbocharged 6-cylinder to a turbocharged 4-cylinder to get better gas mileage with similar performance. The Audi A5 I'm looking at has just about the same 0-60 time as my BMW 335xi and is 5 MPG better on the highway.
Solidifying my decision to get the most fuel-efficient SUV out there when my current Kia Sorento dies (although it averaged 26 mpg on the highways from Maryland to the Outer Banks and back over the long weekent). And no, am not going to get a ModelX for a car I drive over 25K miles a year.
Won't impact the 3rd car purchase a darn when my weekend car's lease is up.
I average around 16 MPG in my Toyota Tundra. To combat fuel price, I fill up ever other time with E85. Not too much of a hit for MPG and the local Speedway is over a $1 cheaper.
DC Area also has great public transportation. I lived off of the Orange line out near McLean and it was a cinch to get into town. Walk 4 blocks, get on train.
I've got a round trip commute of about 5 miles, and now that the weather has turned nice in Oregon, I've started biking to work again. Fuel economy isn't a huge concern, especially since I still have my Honda CR-Z that I bought back when I was driving ~60 miles round trip for work back in Pennsylvania. It's what we use for the most part when doing relatively local travel without the dog, and it'll get a sold 35-40mpg on the highway as long as I keep speeds reasonable. For longer trips, or those involving the dog/other people/large items, we use our Forester since my wife can't drive the Honda; that SUV can generally pull around 27-28 unless we take it into the mountains.
I get bad gas mileage, probably around 17 mpg. However, it is a lease, and I don't live that far away so I only drive it around 10,000 miles/year. So extra cost per year vs a car that could potentially get 30 mpg is around $640 with gas at $2.50. For me with 3 kids, dogs, and the fact I like to drive fast (has turbo charged engine), I don't mind the additional cost I pay for gas. I think the best in class minivan get probably mid 20's for the typ of driving I do, so the actual cost is around $470/ year. I am happy to spend that extra money to drive the vehicle I want to.
I work in the battery industry, and 48V is going to be big in China and Europe shortly, and the push to have them in USA probably will be right behind. This should help with 15-20% better fuel economy, especially for driving I'm doing with lots of starts and stops.
Of the three cars I've owned, I've still never had better gas mileage than my old V6 station wagon. I could get that Olds with its heavy-ass gas pedal, '80s-era aerodynamics, and bitchin' spoiler, all the way up to 30 mpg if I was in cruise control and mostly going downhill. It happened once.
Even not getting quite that high, it happily sat at around 25-26 most of the time on the highway. Great car.
Two weeks ago, I filled up my car at the station for the last time. I brought home a Tesla Model 3 on Friday and have made the move to an electric car. Still figuring it out and I know there will be bugs and bumps along the way but the combination of power, handling and efficiency feels ground breaking. So far, the car has exceeded my hopes and expectations.
of Tesla in general for alot of reasons, but there is no question that their cars have some really intriguing features and capabilities. I'm really happy for you. That period where you are exploring what your car can really do is kind of magical.
Thanks for the very even handed response. I held on to my last car for 15 years so I get the value of sticking with something that works. But yes, the fun of a new toy is good also. This is no doubt an impractical purchase for me but one that I wanted to take a chance on. It will be interesting to see how the industry adjusts (if it does) going forward. Cheers.
is that Tesla seems to absolutely have done for the space industry what it hasn't for the auto industry.
Tesla has moved the technologial peg with cars, that's why the Bolt exists, IMHO. And their ludicrous speed super cars are amazing. However, I don't know if they'll survive their management, quality, and manufacturing issues. Making cars is TOUGH, highly competitive, and highly complex. But I think that Elon kind of succumbed to the idea that most automakers, especially the Big 2.5, were just fat and lazy. Making them easy marks for his technical prowess.
But in aerospace.... wow. I think he may bring us honest to God affordable spaceflight, and he's really put Boeing and Aerojet on notice.
I'd love it if the next time the military wants a jet of some sort if they opened up the bidding to him.
I think that hybrid with heavy duty electric motors could do alot for SUV's in terms of towing due to the high torque possible from electric motors.
But in the meantime, I always loved the idea of diesel for SUV's.
I get around 18 mpg driving normally, 20 if I pussy-foot it. No payments left and she's about a quarter way through at 105,000 miles. I look forward to, hopefully, 15 more years without a car payment.
Live with the lower MPG and revel in the no car payment.
I had to put $500 into my car's this past month. Which was annoying. Until I realized it was a car payment for many people.
gas prices are an issue, but it's generally diffuse enough to my budget that it really doesn't make a huge impact, given the amount I drive.
Much more important to me is ruggedness and durability in a design.
If a car is super complex and has alot to break, it scares me.
if a car is durable, but when things break they $5000 break, it scares me.
I'd rather take a car with 18mpg but that rarely brakes, and when it does, it's easy to fix.
I'd rather take a car with 18mpg but that rarely brakes
I dunno. That seems a little scary ;)
it's one of the ways I save gas. It's for the environment....
"I'd rather take a car with 18mpg but that rarely brakes, "
To each his own but you should probably let your liability insurer know about that. :-)
Edit: Damn, beaten to the punch.
Gas mileage was small but relevant factor when I replaced my elderly crossover this year. Van rated at 28 mpg hwy beat out SUV rated at 22 hwy. Between that, getting a good deal and not springing for all the extras of the top trim I figure I'll have saved enough money to live with higher gas prices.
In 1972, before all the various oil crises events, I remember my school bus driving past a "Fisca" gas station that had gas for 27 cents a gallon. That was the lowest I ever saw a gas price.
No wonder people did not worry about only getting 8 miles to the gallon.
What I remember about those times is that cars had enormous gas tanks because of this.
People did not bitch about the gas prices, but they did bitch about how long it took to fill up a tank of gas.
made you think you'd get 20's in an old vehicle with the aerodynamics of a brick?
Well, this might end up being an unpopular opinion, but here it goes:
First, utility. Gasoline is delivered to you super-efficiently and provides massive utility. For a few bucks, one gallon takes you, and a bunch of stuff you want to carry, 15-25 miles. It does so while powering a climate control system, an entertainment system, and an electronics recharging platform.
Second, math. If you drive 25,000 miles a year and get 20 mpg, that's 1,250 gallons. At $3.00 per gallon, that's $3,750 per year. Bump that to $4.00 per gallon and you get to $5,000. $1,250 isn't insignificant, but it also isn't the thing causing hardship for *most* people.
Compare that to $3.75 for a Latte * 5 days a week * 48 working weeks a year = $900. If you buy that latte every day, you're at $1,368, or above that same $1,250. Choices have consequences. How much utility do you get from driving vs. coffee? No judgment here - just making the point.
Further compare that to a pack a day cigarette habit. I'm not 100% sure what a pack of cigarettes cost these days ($7.00?), but the numbers are even worse.
Third, income. What this really comes down to, like so many things, is an income problem. If you're making $25,000 a year, the incremental $1,250 is a MUCH bigger problem than if you're making $100,000 a year.
For me, the utility of gas is such that I think it is a bargain at $10/gallon; it would be painful, but I would pay it. I also think there are many advantages to electric cars but the economic and utility (limited range, time to charge, etc) tradeoffs aren't worth it yet.
That's a great post. Not at all related to cars, but I would like to add in that paying .49 for a stamp is the greatest deal in the world. I always look at it this way - if I needed to get a letter to someone all the way across the country (Florida to California), I can pay someone 49 stinkin cents to do so. "Here buddy, here is a quarter, two dimes and 4 pennies. Please take my money and in return, deliver this letter to this address about 3,000 miles away". Now that is a bargain.
Yes, oil has literally made civilization possible. It sustains life for 7 billion, incredible really. So many things made out of some oil byproduct...
Gasoline is a great bargain given its utility. IIRC when we Increased fuel economy people drove even more, driving up national fuel usage instead of down.
If you want to reduce gasoline consumption nationally a great way to do it is a direct tax on fuel, but it tends to be a very regressive tax on the working poor.
Your last point is exactly right. There is a pretty simple mechanism to fix the dependency on oil, but it will most hurt those who can afford it the least.
I'm not a huge fan of EV/Hybrid subsidies, but at least the vast majority of income tax is paid by the wealthiest so the subsidy ends up actually being quite progressive. The problem I have with subsidies is that they need to eventually be turned off (hello ethanol...) but there's never a time it is politically appetizing to do it.
The days of 6, 8, 10 etc cylinder cars are coming to a close.
I'm not sold on the turbos due to longevity issues but due to EPA CAFE standards, most car companies are moving to smaller displacement with turbos.
Both fun in their own ways!
For years the Wife drives something bigger because she drives less. We are all the way down to a CR-V for her. It has some utility and we travel in it.
I currently drive a Corolla and we burn it up VS the more expensive CR-V except for vacations. I've always kept a cheaper car to burn up with the miles.
Considering that the battery techonology for pure Electric cars won't evolve vast enough to satiate those who need more mileage and quicker charge times, my best guess is we will see the evolution of gas and or diesel/electric range hybrid vehicles. Electric for those short stints and gas to kick in when longer mileage is needed.
There is still a whole lot of room for gas and diesel engines to improve their efficiency and cleanliness.
And there is still a spark of life left in hydrogen though distribution and manufacturing issues are still a big hurdle.
I do believe those who bought Teslas will be kicking themsleves in a few years if not sooner.
Tesla is operating on borrowed time as funds are going to soon run out and they have seen an exodus of talent.
It also make no sense that they'd hire a Snap Engineer of monetization as their own VP of Engineering. This guy has no car engineering experience at all. But heck, who am I to questions Elon Musk?
I agree: I think battery-powered automobiles are a bridge technology to something better (perhaps hydrogen fuel cell), just like compact fluorescent bulbs were a bridge technology from incandescent to LED.
The weight, lifespan (half of your Tesla battery is deadweight to preserve its life), environmental issues, and charge time of batteries just doesn't pencil out to me.
Also agree on Musk: He seems to have gone off his rocker a bit in the face of criticism.