An uncommon education for the common man?
I have read numerous articles in the last few years stating that U-M keeps making it more difficult for in-state students to be accepted and attend U-M. They keep raising the standards for admissions and don't provide the financial aid necessary for in-state students from middle, working and lower class backgrounds to attend. Much of this is blamed on U-M's need to grab the out-of-state tuition due to only 8% of funding coming from state taxpayers. U-M now is only about 60% in-state students.
Over a hundred years ago, James Angell famously stated the University of Michigan vision: "an uncommon education for the common man."
Is Michigan losing the Angell vision? Are the Michigan men and women of today and the future going to be primarily from privileged backgrounds? Does this bother you or are you OK with it?
He's been working on an entre public engagement program to help profs connect with the larger community.
Even if you have that kind of money, giving your kids that kind of cash is just dumb IMO.
The way to learn how to have fiscal sense is to live without unlimited money. I'm not saying you should cut your kids off. But living with that kind of "allowance" you will never develop any sense of how to actually live in the real world.
I guess they never actually plan to do that, do they?
I'd tell you that kid was probably blowing smoke up your ass on that half million dollar a year allowance. Even the most idiotic of parents would consider that kind of allowance to be irresponsible and morally reprehensible. But if it is true, then those parents should be locked up with the key thrown away, and the kid condemned to several years waiting tables and washing dishes.
Give a kid who's probably never worked a day in his life half a million dollars a year....more than what 99.9% of the general working population makes in a year at the height of their earning power...and what do you think that kid will grow up to be? When he has no concept of hard work or earning money? Sounds like a piece of shit in the making.
If you're going to flaunt your money, you'd damn well better have at least earned it.
Same and being in Greek Life really opens you up to just how small you feel at colleges like Michigan.
On the bright side, you make some connections with wealthy ass mofos and ride the money train all through college and beyond possibly.
Granted I had to live in the shitty satelite houses on Hill etc. for the sake of pregames, but boy did I have a fun time partying it up in Landmark, Zaragon etc. at night.
I can only imagine the dichotomy getting even more pronounced these days. My freshman year had 2 high rises in town. I believe there are about 9 now between South U and downtown A2.
Another positive is that "luxury" condos force the shitty landlords to renovate their houses to keep up with the competition.
It seeemed to me that the landlords just raised the prices to keep in line with the new apartments without improving anything. There's a real affordable housing crisis in ann arbor, like most places.
I don't see an issue with a raise in admission standards, especially when that is mostly falling on out of state students, as there are more of them competing for less spots. If you want Michigan to keep improving, continuing as one of the top universities in the world, you can't just take Michigan kids at a 50% acceptance rate.
Brian, Seth... why the fuck is this allowed, but legitimate political discourse is banned?
Just a question.
This may be unpopular, but having known kids who got in from in-state schools vs. out of the state, it's still much easier to gain admittance if you are a Michigan resident. It doesn't mean the students who are admitted are noticeably worse academically than in-state students, but if it's true that 60% of admitted students are from Michigan, it means they are competing for about 4,200 seats and out-of-state students the other 3,000 in a class of 7,000 freshman. I think there are about 115k graduating seniors a year in the state, give or a take a bit. That's still a much better percentage than the out-of-state pool, and not all those kids are supremely rich blue-bloods; many of them are kids from more affluent parts of the country that also have higher costs of living, so things like family income and resources may appear more pronounced than they are by the raw numbers.
Michigan's job is to provide a solid education for the kids who are admitted and to do good for the community at large. That doesn't mean, though, that just because you really want to attend that shool you should. It sucks for kids who don't get in (I've had family members who were not, and it sucked), but there a number of other wonderful colleges in the state (and MSU) and beyond that would be just as enriching academically.
Your assumption is false. While the rates of acceptance are higher in-state, the average candidate that is accepted is materially not different in-state from out-of-state. The average GPA and board scores tend to be very similar. I have this on direct authority from the admissions office.
The exception to what I said above pertains to students outside SE Michigan. From underrepresented counties, I do believe the university would go out of its way to admit a student that is on the periphery of the typical qualifying characteristics. However, every candidate must be considered qualified in order to be admitted. In the end, the numbers come to similar averages, espeically when comparing kids from the typical SE Michigan schools that apply and those from out of state. Best comparison to the UP kids would be kids from underrepresented states as well -- if you're from Wyoming, you're more likely to get in than if you're from NYC, for example.
which has screwed up all the "statistics" and everything makes sense from the numbers standpoint.
And all HS GPA's are not created equally.
That's interesting to hear - my understanding has been (based on national averages on test scores as well as general trends) is that the state of Michigan has become closer to the national average on a number of national board exams while large out-of-state places (CA, MA, NY, CT, etc.) have improved. Maybe Michigan is just keeping their best students in state more that usual. I would like to know the breakdowns between acceptance and admitted, because my guess is that out-of-state admitted is different than accepted, as a number of people probably list Michigan as a solid secondary option.
There's a ton of misinformation in the answers to this post, as well as incorrect assumptions in the OP.
Bottom line is that Michigan now receives a record number of freshman applications -- 65,000 this year -- with an enrollment total that is also as high as it's ever been -- about 6,600. The end result is a class that is very close to 50/50 in-state and out-of-state. The admission rate comes to approximately 27%, but the in-state admit rate is significantly HIGHER than the out-of-state rate due to the fact that between 75-80% of the applications come from out-of-state students. The in-state acceptance rate is somewhere in the mid 40% range.
While in-state students get accepted at a much higher rate, the number of out-of-state students admitted is still notably higher than those that are in-state. They get to a 50/50 enrollment rate because the yield (admitted students who enroll) is also much higher in-state than out-of-state (I believe stephenrjking said as much above). The admissions office is very good a projecting these things to get the end result that they want.
It is a known concern within the university community that many students from outside SE Michigan feel that they either can't get in, can't compete once they're in, or can't afford it. All of these things are actually untrue. As noted, the acceptance rate in-state is much higher than it is for the rest of the country/world. Plus, Michigan actively seeks students from under-represented counties in-state, so the likelihood of a less qualified student getting in from the UP (for example) is quite higher than a kid from Southfield or Bloomfield Hills. The Go Blue Guarantee covers the cost issues as noted in the original reply to this OP. As for competition, you never really know until you get there, but there's no reason to think that any remotely qualified candidate can't do well at Michigan.
So, for those of you in the more remote counties of Michigan, you're encouraged to apply and should assume you'll have all the resources you need from the university to succeed in college and beyond. Go Blue!
According to the stats provided by rschreiber91 (thanks for the research!), future U-M classes will be 50/50 in/out state, not 60/40, as I had recalled reading.
I assume my recollection of only 8% of monies coming from state taxpayers is correct since no one corrected me.
SO... my next question to all of you is if we are getting all this out of state tuition and we only get a small percentage from taxpayers, why not make U-M a private university? What are the pros/cons of U-M being a private rather than a public university?
Your thoughts are welcome. And, BTW, thanks for an intelligent, reasoned discussion of this topic with facts sprinkled with anecdotal information. The Michigan Difference!
I have an ER Doc, a CPA/Fin guy at a small hedge fund, and a librarian.
-The Doc was waited listed for medical school at U of M and turned down at the very end.
-The Librarian was turned down(masters). Some home sickness pulled her GPA down at Grand Valley.
-The CPA didn't apply.
I was very disappointed but moved on. I have friends with kids that got turned down and they were very smart kids. I love U of M football, but long term this sours people in my opinion. Sparty grows stronger from this. I would prefer my tax dollars goong for Michigan residents kids.
when I started at UM more than 40 years ago the tuition was less than at my Catholic High School in the Detroit burbs
I love UM, but I have no intention of sending my kids there now that we no longer live in Michigan.
The value of sending them to Michigan as an out-of-state school just doesn't add up. We have schools in-state that will be 1/4th the cost and the degree will be 80-90% as valuable. Maybe not 100% as valuable, but the cost/value proposition is just so much better.
Obviously if I was in-state I would still look to Ann Arbor if my kids could get in. But as an out-of-stater, I just can't justify it. I'm not sure I can justify the cost of ANY out-of-state university any more.
"U-M now is only about 60% in-state students."
Shameful.
"Are the Michigan men and women of today and the future going to be primarily from privileged backgrounds?"
Yes.
https://www.michigandaily.com/section/student-government/students-call-…
“It comes up twice in those first 50 points that students should get rid of cleaning or laundry service subscriptions in order to save money,”
I've never had a laundry service subscription in my entire life, let alone in college. Good grief, how spoiled do you have to be that you can't wash your own clothes?
My buddies kid was denied at 6 of 8 UC schools in Cali including UCLA w these credentials
4.6 GPA
5 on the Calculus exam
1540 SAT
Athlete (QB)
Multiple clubs and community accomplishments.
California wants mostly out of state student because of dollars $$$
December 25th, 2019 at 5:23 PM ^
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