Records of the ten oldest teams in CFB
This thread follows up on the earlier thread "Records of the ten youngest teams in CFB" to give some light on how teams with the most returning starters are doing. At the beginning of the season, I inquired about why we should care about what Phil Steele has to say and his reasoning for being low on Michigan is that we are THE youngest team in CFB with only 5! returning starters.
1. Syracuse, 20 Returning Starters (20), 4-4 Record
2. Florida Atlantic, 18 RS, 4-3
3. Texas, 17 RS, 3-4
4. Oregon, 17 RS, 4-4
5. NC State, 17 RS, 6-1
6. Georgia, 17 RS, 7-0
7. Kentucky, 17 RS, 5-2
8. TCU, 17 RS, 7-0
9. PSU, 16 RS, 7-0
10. Northwestern, 16 RS, 4-3
Michigan sits dead last with only 5 RS. I think that we are doing a great job to currenlty sit with a 5-2 record, with a close loss to MSU. We will be just fine.
October 26th, 2017 at 3:36 PM ^
Kinnel was behind two seniors his first two years on the team, and only now got starter spots. Watson was the #4 or #5 corner before this year, and even now is squarely #3. And they are playing reasonably well in their roles; Kinnel has been fine save for PSU, which can happen. Watson has been serviceable in the games he's played.
FSU recruited a bunch of elite talent, and they currently have the 31st best defense and 64th best offense and are 2-4. LSU has busloads of talent and have struggled for most of the year before this little run. Florida has recruited well for years now and aren't anywhere close to where they could be. Michigan is 5-2 with a close home loss to a top-20 team and a blowout loss to a top-2 team on the road. It happens. But again, you keep expecting every year to basically be the same regardless of context, and as we've seen that isn't the case.
October 26th, 2017 at 3:36 PM ^
Kinnel was behind two seniors his first two years on the team, and only now got starter spots. Watson was the #4 or #5 corner before this year, and even now is squarely #3. And they are playing reasonably well in their roles; Kinnel has been fine save for PSU, which can happen. Watson has been serviceable in the games he's played.
FSU recruited a bunch of elite talent, and they currently have the 31st best defense and 64th best offense and are 2-4. LSU has busloads of talent and have struggled for most of the year before this little run. Florida has recruited well for years now and aren't anywhere close to where they could be. Michigan is 5-2 with a close home loss to a top-20 team and a blowout loss to a top-2 team on the road. It happens. But again, you keep expecting every year to basically be the same regardless of context, and as we've seen that isn't the case.
October 26th, 2017 at 1:51 PM ^
Agree with this more with basketball for sure.
I think you're oversimplying it a bit here as there's no Oline in the country and starts all freshman and sophomores and wins a NC. <Looks around> Right?
October 26th, 2017 at 1:53 PM ^
October 26th, 2017 at 3:37 PM ^
October 26th, 2017 at 2:16 PM ^
October 26th, 2017 at 4:18 PM ^
October 26th, 2017 at 1:39 PM ^
October 26th, 2017 at 1:49 PM ^
October 26th, 2017 at 1:55 PM ^
October 26th, 2017 at 2:46 PM ^
claimed that Michigan has the youngest starting lineup in 13 years for all of college football.
Anyone know if this is actually true?
October 26th, 2017 at 2:54 PM ^
Yep, it's true.
October 26th, 2017 at 3:28 PM ^
I believe it's the youngest overall ROSTER since 2004. What is really hurting us this year IMO is just lack of guys that are in their 3rd or 4th year.
October 26th, 2017 at 3:42 PM ^
October 26th, 2017 at 4:23 PM ^
October 26th, 2017 at 6:39 PM ^
October 26th, 2017 at 6:39 PM ^
October 26th, 2017 at 7:47 PM ^
agree with you.
Seems like both things are a factor. Youth. Plus big problems with the offensive staff.
Not really looking for excuses. Just looking for the facts.
But I do think that JH will get it set straight. Being 5-2 with a very young roster is not really out of reasonable expectation. But having so much dysfunction on offense really is a thing that goes beyond youth directly to the coaching staff.
But again, I know JH is an elite coach and he will get it set straight. Look at Jimbo Fisher at FSU. Whey are having worse problems than MIchigan. 2-4. Is Fisher all of a sudden an idiot coach? No. But sometimes it just takes time to get is pointed in the right direction.
October 26th, 2017 at 2:02 PM ^
...like in 2015 when Michigan's younger players matured into a ton of upperclassmen returning starters who had played together a while, thus making a 10 win season entirely predictable given they also added an elite coach?
As with all things in life, things are recognized and ignored when its convenient depending on who you are and what stands you take:
Michigan isn't very good this year because they are young! Also, 2015 Michigan overachieved by winning ten games even though they returned Mason Cole, Graham Glasgow, Kyle Kalis, Eric Magnuson, Ben Braden, Deveon Smith, Amara Darboh, Jake Butt, Jehu Chesson, Jourdan Lewis, Jabrill Peppers, Jarrod Wilson, Delano Hill, Jeremy Clark, Channing Stribling, Joe Bolden, James Ross, Desmond Morgan, Ryan Glasgow, Willie Henry, Chris Wormley and Taco Charlton and added Jim Harbaugh!
Also, it was crazy to expect that returning almost all of those guys would result in a B1G Ten title in 2016!
October 26th, 2017 at 3:15 PM ^
Michigan is 27th in S&P; there arte worst fates than being one of the top 30 teams in the country. FSU is worse. I'd argue LSU is worse. USC is probably worse (per S&P, they're a spot above Michigan). Michigan had the same number of players returning in 2014 and they had in 2015; one of those teams went 5-7 and the other 10-3. Some of that is coaching absolutely, some of it luck (2014 Michigan had a -16 TO margin; 2015 it improved to -4), and some of it was scheduling and the vagaries of sports. It also matters that the band for wins is really tight; we are talking about, usually, a 2-3 game difference over 13 games. Get a break here or there and you can go 10-3 when you are a 8/9-win outfit, or go 10-3 when you are probably a 12-1 version.
October 26th, 2017 at 5:50 PM ^
Michigan's defense is the reason Michigan is the youngest team in the country. It is also the reason why Michigan is #27 in S&P. The defense is #12. The offense is #83. And while it is young at several key positions, it is nowhere near the youngest in the country. It is just flat out untalented.
By comparison, FSU is also without its starting QB, but it has the #63 offense and the #24 passing offense. So there is clear underperformance here.
October 26th, 2017 at 6:49 PM ^
October 26th, 2017 at 1:56 PM ^
Can you please break down the oldest and youngest by position groups? with records too. Thx.
/s
October 26th, 2017 at 2:05 PM ^
I think you went a bit far by saying "we're doing a great job", but I do like the rational correlation between experience and results. Despite the cosmetic results at times on the field, we're a monsoon loss against MSU from being about where we expected.
I would also contend that the situation is more extreme than your data suggests. Per this analysis we returned 5/22 starters. But if you also factor in the primary special teams positions (K, P, LS, PR, KR) we were actually returning just 5/27 starters. Add to that the loss of Speight and you're at 4/27 starters.
We knew this year was going to be a transition/rebuild year. Despite that knowledge and your logical data here the frustration is building because the trend lines aren't going in the right direction. QB/OL have yet to develop. Our D just got smashed. We haven't been able to develop any depth because the games have been too close to bring in back-ups. We still haven't made up any ground on OSU and just got beat again by MSU despite their youth.
October 26th, 2017 at 2:34 PM ^
October 26th, 2017 at 5:45 PM ^
nobody expected losing to PSU 42-13. We are far more than an MSU loss away from expectations.
October 26th, 2017 at 2:20 PM ^
next year like we did this year? Would really like to return the favor and blow them out.
October 26th, 2017 at 2:50 PM ^
Maybe the NCAA will wake up, realize they have not learned a single damn thing, and put them back on sanctions.
October 26th, 2017 at 2:55 PM ^
Difference between young and inexperienced. For instance, Hurst is considered young because he was the designated starter last year? Ah, no.
October 26th, 2017 at 4:25 PM ^
I posted this in another topic, but remember at this time last year:
Michigan: 7-0 / #2 AP
Penn State: 5-2 / #24 AP / lost to a bitter in-state rival in a close game and got crushed by the #2 team in the country on the road
I don't anticipate Michigan going undefeated the rest of the year and somehow winning the B1G East, but remember Michigan was 2 plays and some questionable officiating away from going undefeated and making the playoffs last year. Maybe, Penn State has better luck this year.
That said, it'll be interesting to see how Penn State looks when they don't have:
A) Joe Moorhead
B) Saquon Barkley and one of the most experienced teams in the country
October 26th, 2017 at 5:40 PM ^
had a promising qb and an already all-world rb.
Penn state this year has the #10 offensive S&P to go along with the #9 defensive S&P. There is a reason why they were hyped up this year...it was likely that this was coming.
Michigan doesn't have anything nearly as promising to look forward to next year.
October 26th, 2017 at 4:57 PM ^
take with a grain of salt, too many external variables. And, the underachievement Diary makes some great points about "system" and talent/experience.
October 26th, 2017 at 5:34 PM ^
to really disprove that youth and lack of talent in the upperclassmen isn't the main issue with the offense. He says, "For those of you saying, 'just wait until we have experienced players in our offense, we'll be fine,' you are ignoring the data, the eye test..."
But the problem is that the only eye tests and data we have are production with young players and/or untalented upperclassmen. So his argument doesn't really convince me in that regard.
The only thing we can definitively say is that we have had huge recruiting misses that have contributed to the lack of overall talent, and we have had terrible injury luck.
October 26th, 2017 at 7:19 PM ^
October 26th, 2017 at 7:30 PM ^
October 26th, 2017 at 7:36 PM ^
I think back to the cheaters in cbus last year. They were overranked the whole year with that young team. All I heard Herbstreit say last year on broadcasts was that the cheaters were the youngest team in the country. Must've said it about 40 times that I heard. Not once has he said anything in the games he's been announcing with Michigan. Anyways, that team had some good players that went pro though. I mean guys like, McMillan, those two good conerbacks, that one really good safety playing for the Colts, and that speedy little shithead receiver/hback. Michigan doesn't have any of those guys with that kind of talent on this team except Hurst. Like going to the NFL in the first round type of guy. So, that Ohio team lost too PSU and cheated worse than any fucking team in the history of sport and then got smoked by Clemson in the playoff and as the #2 team in the country yet. Talk about a joke. Michigan is sitting very good right now. Plus, the cheaters have had top 3 recruiting classes the past 10 or more years and haven't had their roster completely screwed up like Michigan has after RichRod and Hoke. Big ball games will be won and this offense is close to getting it rolling. They aren't consistent yet but when they make things happen, it's right on and there are nice gains as we've witnessed. If O'Korn can get the time, he can make things happen. Need to give him his easy check downs. Make the defenses honest. Please for the love of fucking all that is great, use your running backs in the passing game. I'd rather have Evans or Higdon one on one in the flat or up the sideline with a ball thrown over the top of a slower linebacker than wasting him in the backfield trying to block 2 or 3 d-lineman that have escaped through. If it's a third and long and no one is open downfield, at least you have that shot in the dark release valve with your halfback. Comeon man, just get it done. Go Blue!!
October 26th, 2017 at 7:40 PM ^
and thought this was a ranking of the of the records of Rutgers, Princeton, Havard, U of Chicago et al.
October 26th, 2017 at 10:20 PM ^
October 26th, 2017 at 10:21 PM ^