Records of the ten oldest teams in CFB

Submitted by Catchafire on

This thread follows up on the earlier thread "Records of the ten youngest teams in CFB" to give some light on how teams with the most returning starters are doing.  At the beginning of the season, I inquired about why we should care about what Phil Steele has to say and his reasoning for being low on Michigan is that we are THE youngest team in CFB with only 5! returning starters.

 

1.  Syracuse, 20 Returning Starters (20), 4-4 Record

2. Florida Atlantic, 18 RS, 4-3

3. Texas, 17 RS, 3-4

4. Oregon, 17 RS, 4-4

5. NC State, 17 RS, 6-1

6. Georgia, 17 RS, 7-0

7. Kentucky, 17 RS, 5-2

8. TCU, 17 RS, 7-0

9. PSU, 16 RS, 7-0

10. Northwestern, 16 RS, 4-3

 

Michigan sits dead last with only 5 RS.  I think that we are doing a great job to currenlty sit with a 5-2 record, with a close loss to MSU.  We will be just fine.

The Fan in Fargo

October 26th, 2017 at 8:24 PM ^

I've been wrong many times in my life and I'm not ever afraid to admit it like all of the egotistic clowns on here never would. Yet, I guarantee that I've been right more than most of you highly educated joe smoes will be in five lifetimes. You better believe it too because you are completely wrong about this offense. It almost kind of gives me chills because I just know that in 1 or 2 years I'm going to be having the time of my life at Buffalo Wild Wings and other sports bars while watching Michigan destroy teams in every way possible. Michigan will beat the shit out of Ohio State, Penn State, Texas, Oklahoma and Notre Dame to name a few. With Speight hopefully back as a redshirt senior and the younger two as redshirt sophomore and freshman, you better believe this passing game takes off and then it's lights out kids. You will have every position group with a SHIT ton more experience. In 2019 you will see a veteran Michigan team absolutely destroy Notre Dame and Ohio State in the Big House. Oh yes, absolutely embarrass. I honestly don't see a secondary stop them next year even. That's if the qb has time.So, I mean we all knew this team was going to take some punches this year. Just gotta get in the weight room big time and start hitting back faster and harder. All there is to it. Does this team have young men that want to dominate lesser men or are they a bunch of kids yet that are afraid if their muscles get too big they will have stretch marks in their mid thirties? That's the real question though. Think about it really. When it comes down too it, talent, strength, speed and experience don't need great coaching or good play calling. All they have to do is play and get the job done. It's takes care of itself.

MichiganMan14

October 26th, 2017 at 1:29 PM ^

You can't wait around until you're older than everyone to win. Recruit ELITE talent. Coach it the hell up and scheme elite athletes into space. This age thing is an excuse. We have upper classmen all over the field and at every position. We aren't coaching it up well enough to win like we want to. That's the blunt truth and many can't handle that. The age excuse is just that. An excuse.

Inman

October 26th, 2017 at 1:35 PM ^

I agree age shouldn't be an excuse. I disagree that we aren't coaching it up enough. No matter how well you coach sometimes it just doesn't matter. It's a combination of many things. Team chemistry, luck and player execution to name a few. You could take 3 top tier coaches and add to our team and I doubt it would make much difference to our current state.

MichiganMan14

October 26th, 2017 at 1:38 PM ^

But trying to force manball.....that is coaching. We're asking the line to do what they cannot do. We're not playing seasoned pass catchers and TEs. We have personnel to be much more successful than we are on offense but the schemes are flawed. It is absolutley coaching in my estimation and it becomes obvious week to week. Michigan with all of the 4 and 5 star talent, should not be struggling on offense. When your force scheme as opposed to scheme around your personnel...this is the offense you get.

bronxblue

October 26th, 2017 at 1:51 PM ^

What spread QB are you talking about? You mean O'Korn, a man who averaged under 2 ypc over his career? Or do you mean Peter's, a RS freshman who was known for being elusive enough but certainly not a runner in the classic sense? Or do you mean McCaffrey, a true freshman who, again, isn't a speed demon? Also, who are the seasoned pass catchers? There is Perry, who leads the team in catches, sophomores Crawford and McDoom, and Ian Bunting, who got passed over. But show me this wealth of established talent at receiver; I'm sure the coaches would like to know what they are missing.

MichiganMan14

October 26th, 2017 at 2:09 PM ^

Ways....Harris...Wheatley Jr......just for starters. Edge blocking has prevented touchdowns from multiple backs this year....Ways can block. There are a lot of things man. Some of you guys take criticism of the Staff like it's preposterous. Nobody is saying fire Harbaugh. His offendive Staff needs a shakeup and is underperforming since Indiana last year. A lot of you mistake status and positioning on staffs as elite ability. Coaching is often who you know and based off of opportunities. While Harbaugh has a solid track record...others don't necessarily scream gold standard and YES...they are subject to criticism or suggestion when the offense looks the way it has for nearly a calendar year. You have personnel for spread elements right now. This team should operate out of the gun against tough fronts. That's not me being an expert. That's just observation and having coached for a while. You adjust to your personnel and situation. The playbook is huge. That's not a myth. Freshman have trouble picking all of it up. If you're electing to play younger guys and bench older ones...slim the book down. Again. Common sense.

buddha

October 26th, 2017 at 3:18 PM ^

I'm curious: What exactly doesn't he know? He obviously has insider access to our program. He obviously has a positive relationship with at least - if not more than one - player. He's obviously spent some time with the coaches.

So what is it? Are you upset he's making points or providing opinions that don't agree with the groupthink of the board? Please explain so that the rest of us posters that have to read you and Inman "can get it."

Occam's Razor

October 26th, 2017 at 4:06 PM ^

Inman and Maizeblue11 have nothing to offer. 

Their level of analysis stops at "Harbaugh isn't FIERY enough" 

 

Hence why they're calling out a former D1 college player who actually has access to the program and coaches elite college bound talent on a daily basis. 

Quite funny actually, and I don't even agree with MichiganMan14 all the time either. 

 

MIGHTYMOJO91

October 26th, 2017 at 6:12 PM ^

Post your reume oh wise one...Lol

You probably don't know what he's talking about because you are bereft of the intellect to understand what he's talking about.

Maybe you should just leave it to the adults and just piss off.

In reply to by Inman

MichiganMan14

October 26th, 2017 at 2:39 PM ^

If that makes you feel better than have at it. The school I Coach at is an 8A florida high school that has won back to back district titles. We have about 15 Division 1 kids in our program at the moment. Your insult was funny but highly inaccurate. Richie James. Karan Higdon. Vincent Lamar Sellers Jr. Josh Dunn. Zahodri Jackson. These are all kids I've personally coached at their positions and all are likely NFL guys. Moose Griffith, Jamar Jackson are D1s coming out this year. Our freshman class has elite players already receiving offers. You don't have to agree with me. But making personal attacks is silly on your part especially when you're wrong and I've been coaching elite high school talent for going on 8 years.

In reply to by MichiganMan14

Maizeblue11

October 26th, 2017 at 2:54 PM ^

Even if you are a high school coach, you really think those kids would appreciate you using their names to brag to users on mgoblog? Pathetic.

MichiganMan14

October 26th, 2017 at 4:00 PM ^

You attacked and I responded by stating counter facts to your insult. The kids I've had the priveledge of coaching are elite and not sources to brag about. They are counter to your claim of me being a pop warner football mind though. Never would ask anything of my guys or utilize them to make myself look cool. Ain't about me. I already played this game. I Coach and mentor these cats to help them achieve their dreams. Ask any of them.

In reply to by MichiganMan14

Inman

October 26th, 2017 at 4:23 PM ^

I'm not here to argue. Whatever you say you are, fine. Not sure how trashing our coaching though is gonna help the guys you know want to go play for them. Peace man.

MichiganMan14

October 26th, 2017 at 3:57 PM ^

Never set out for personal attacks. I was called a middle school guy. Had the priveledge to coach many good ones. Simple as that. You can try and flip it to win your argument. You will still be wrong and fail to paint me out as you want to.

Maizeblue11

October 26th, 2017 at 4:22 PM ^

You did something immature and stupid and can’t admit up to it. You shouldn’t have responded if thats how you thought.

MichiganMan14

October 26th, 2017 at 2:55 PM ^

I love Michigan. Been in and out of that stadium since I was young. It's not about me at all. I say what I say out of love for the program. My opinions. Not Karans....or D Bush...or Ty. I see things we could do better. I know what I post isn't popular and the personal attacks are always the resort. The tRuth is that we are NOT and elite program yet and we should be. We have the resources and players to be. The culture and attitude need to change if we are to win this conference.

buddha

October 26th, 2017 at 3:04 PM ^

There is a sad - but vocal - minority of posters here who, in the face of facts and reality, decide throwing insults is the best response. Given your knowledge and contributions, you have no doubt experienced this countless times.

I appreciate your comments on this board. I may have misread, but you are a high school coach in FL (or used to be)? Given the schools that knock on your door, do you notice cool things Michigan does that make an impact? Similarly, do we do these that are turn-offs for high school players and coaches? I ask because our recruiting for 2018 just seems "off," and several people on this board have thrown out theories why. I'd be curious to know what you think...

 

Thanks!

MichiganMan14

October 26th, 2017 at 4:07 PM ^

Our school has a ton of college ties and several former pro athletes. We are blessed to have a lot of exposure and it's only getting better. Michigan has come to see our boys a few times in the last year and hopefully a few of our boys will take care of the classroom and be Michigan eligible. Michigan is a huge deal down here and our area in general has a few Michigan level guys from year to year. Our 2018 recruiting is likley off because we have failed to meet the hype on the field and position coaches matter. Harbaugh works hard in recruiting and needs to be flanked with wolves to maximize his efforts. Harbaugh can get this right and I think he will. But it's hard to recruit with the very top when you don't win like they do. Michigan doesn't pitch a sexy youthful environment like a Georgia or an FSU for example. They win kids over through the actual program...coaching and game day environment. The Big House needs to be more "Live". Weather factors in and kids need overwhelming reasons to pledge Blue over Closer Southern schools.

TrueBlue2003

October 26th, 2017 at 4:31 PM ^

All things we will never be able to compete with southern SEC schools with lower academic standards.  And those reasons make sense to lose out for Florida kids.

Our peer group is more Stanford, UCLA, USC, Notre Dame...those are schools that are going to have similar drawbacks, but will be attractive to kids that care about an education and that's probably what they have to pitch.  The California schools do have better weather, they don't have as "live" a stadium experience as we do.

bronxblue

October 26th, 2017 at 3:27 PM ^

In what way is John O'Korn a spread QB?  Do you mean as a passer?  I mean, the offense they ran at Houston was definitely a spread variant, but hell Michigan lined up out of the shotgun a bunch last year (and do some this year) before blocking issues made that very difficult.  

Drake Harris tore his hamstring enough times he could never see the field and moved to corner, where he played a second against Florida and hasn't been seen since.  Moe Ways was a miss.  Wheatley Jr. is a RS sophomore who's probably better equipped as a blocker than a consistent pass catcher.  I have no proof that Ways is a good blocker, but the fact he apparently can't catch the ball makes it a dicey proposition to put him out there for a soul purpose of blocking on running plays.  

Also, and I assume this is coming from your insider info, do you know if the playbook they currently run is huge and dense?  All I've seen the past 3-4 games is a scaled-down playbook with few variants.  What is killing Michigan isn't the size of the playbook as much as not being able to consistently execute the plays they do have.  They don't block particularly well on zone runs and struggle to get to the second level consistently.  Running backs struggle to consistent read and react to cutback lanes and following blockers when they do properly set up the play.  They don't  block all that well during conventional passing downs, and O'Korn on the run is a diminishing return part of the offense that is further hamstrung by dropped passes.  They aren't good on offense because they aren't that good at any one part consistently; they could call 10 plays a game and if you can only execute it well 50% of the time, that's not good.  

I honestly don't know how the playbook has changed this year compared to previous seasons; my guess is losing Speight messed stuff up, plus them realizing that what they saw as growth in some parts of the team over the offseason didn't translate perfectly to the season.  But saying "run a different offense with these players and teach them all of these new plays because they are perhaps marginally better suited for them" goes against what most successful coaches do.  Michigan has tinkered at the fringes (they are more power-heavy further along this year, fewer receivers and more protection on passing downs, small wrinkles), but if I'm Harbaugh I'd rather suffer through a rough patch with a bunch of freshmen and sohomores now versus trying a 1-year experiment to get a slightly better version of John O'Korn and Moe Ways for 6 or 7 games.

buddha

October 26th, 2017 at 2:55 PM ^

Several NFL teams run spread schemes all the time. For example, the Chiefs and the Patriots run a ton of spread schemes and neither has a burner at QB (Alex is admittedly an OK QB runner...but you get my point).

I think this board associates "spread" with RR and Denard (and Oregon). It's almost like this board does not appreciate there are multiple types of spread offenses, several of which don't require a Denard runner at QB. 

 

WeimyWoodson

October 27th, 2017 at 1:08 PM ^

Look like it does now?  Or would you like it to look like OSU's when clicking?  The fact that Alabama is shifting towards spread tendencies should tell you a lot.  Stupid to argue NFL offense and running qbs not working in the NFL.  Last time I checked Michigan played in the B10 not the NFC East.

RockinLoud

October 26th, 2017 at 1:42 PM ^

Specifically on offense, I agree with you. Losing Fisch and TW hurt, and I'm not impressed with Pep at all pretty much anywhere he's been. That's big net loss in my book.

Seems like our scheme is so complex that underclassmen can only grasp it a little bit at a time, so then they simplify the game plan/schemes so as not to overwhelm, but then that makes it much easier on the opponent to stop it. So that leads me to ask, is this mash-up pro-style with random passing spread elements offense just flat-out too complex for any team that isn't loaded with upperclassmen? So many moving parts have to work together to perfection versus a pure spread that has a lot more leeway for errors, or so it seems. That's the conclusion I'm leaning towards, but I don't really know the answer for sure.

bronxblue

October 26th, 2017 at 1:47 PM ^

There are no upperclassmen in the secondary that saw significant time. The offensive line has basically 1.5 guys (depending on Cole at C vs LT) who saw significant playing time at their position last year. WR has a junior and nobody else. These upperclassmen come from two classes of a total of 30-ish players. There are technically upperclassmen at places, but it's not normally distributed at all. And it's not an excuse; Michigan isn't also 2-5 despite some people's desperate bleating for that to be the case. But it's a very young team with a couple of injuries further exasperating issues. But context always seems lost on "truth tellers" who want to tell a point into reality.

The Mad Hatter

October 26th, 2017 at 3:17 PM ^

Since you seem to know your stuff at the HS to D1 level, why is that that Michigan isn't in on more top guys?  We get one every year or two (Peppers, Gary, DPJ, etc), but other schools get a helluva lot more.

Is it academics?  Perception that Michigan isn't going to be competing for Big 10 and national championships?

Or are the top programs really just outright buying the best players?

I'll hang up and listen.

 

MichiganMan14

October 26th, 2017 at 3:30 PM ^

Michigan is an elite institution and grades come into play. Michigan has a culture that is very character based and some of the wildflower recruits don't necessarily fit in here. Michigan still gets beat out by dirty play in recruiting and they get Big Dogged by elite programs....BAMA for example. College football is a tough business and Michigan is trying to do it cleaner than the opposition hence some of Harbaugh's creativity. Weather and proximity are also factors. A HUGE one is position coaching and NFL tracking. Kids and parents are big on these. Tyrone Wheatley was phenomenal in Karans recruitment and development. You need guys like him. Personalities matter also in recruiting. I don't wish to talk badly on Michigan current staff but it could be better. I was very disappointed to see Coach Wheat leave and if you're wondering how we lost Najee Harris....ask yourself why would he come to Michigan over Bama? Who is coaching him? We still rotate backs and don't feature an RB, which hurts recruiting Elite RB talent.