OT- Game of Thrones S7 E7: The Dragon and the Wolf
August 28th, 2017 at 5:57 PM ^
August 28th, 2017 at 8:31 AM ^
The whole Theon storyline in this epsiode wasn't for the second scene (the fighting), it was for the first. The conversation between Theon and Jon Snow was forecasting for Jon's own situation. When he tells Theon that he can be a Stark and a Greyjoy, that is just setting up his own thought process for when he faces a similar dilemma. The redemption part for Theon was only to finish off his storyline for the season.
August 28th, 2017 at 10:16 AM ^
August 28th, 2017 at 11:41 AM ^
And here is the key:
Theon is going to figure out that Euron is going for the Golden company. Then he will have to decide what to do with the information.
at least that is why I think it matters.
jdon
August 27th, 2017 at 11:30 PM ^
August 28th, 2017 at 12:35 AM ^
Absolute worst season of Game of thrones to date. The whole season felt rushed and was completely predictable. With the exception of the ice dragon, nothing really happend and the story barely moved. Withg so few episodes left I was expecting a lot more. The seaon finales are usually great but this one just fell flat. Fan boys will like it because it was Game of thrones, like fanboys liked the prequels to Star wars because they were star wars movies.
August 28th, 2017 at 1:20 AM ^
your second sentence wasn't wrong, but read these threads (or talk to the diehards), and you'll realize you have it backwards.
Only casual fans/those who want spectacles really liked this season because it moved fast and had lof of comedic moments and deus ex machinas with heros saving people in absurd ways, but diehards are fairly disappointed that the big storylines have been and are going to be revealed/resolved within a cracking shell of what the story was supposed to be.
August 28th, 2017 at 1:40 AM ^
August 28th, 2017 at 1:51 AM ^
Actually, the plural would be dei ex machina.
August 28th, 2017 at 1:55 AM ^
August 28th, 2017 at 2:00 AM ^
Curse our cultured heritage.
August 28th, 2017 at 2:18 AM ^
my bad. you're right, next time I should get out my thesaurus so as to coordinate all my posts into elegantly written prose without any redundancy.
Message board posts! Now eligible for the Nobel Prize in literature!
August 28th, 2017 at 8:24 AM ^
August 28th, 2017 at 2:09 PM ^
By calling something by its name, I'm not thinking for myself? This makes absolutely no sense.
August 28th, 2017 at 2:04 AM ^
I'm not sure how to make up words and then get people to understand them to mean what I want them to mean, so until then, I will use the words established to mean what I want to say.
August 28th, 2017 at 9:13 AM ^
I don't think it means what you think it means.
August 28th, 2017 at 3:01 PM ^
It's always the best when morans make this comment about words for which they clearly don't even know the meaning!
Bro, per Merriam-Webster (that's the dictionary, I recommend you use one once in a while), deus ex machina means "a person or thing (as in fiction or drama) that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty."
Maybe so many people smarter than you are using it because it is literally the best, exact way to refer to what has happened so many times this season.
Dany appears at the very last moment on a dragon that flies at the speed of light to save the island boys? Deus ex machina. Textbook usage.
Benjen bursts through thousands of wights to save Jon at the very last moment? Dues ex machina. Textbook.
I keep using that word!
Complaining about the use of that word when reading about this season of GoT is like complainging about the frequency of the word "hurricane" when reading the news this week. Why don't these people think of new words to call it? Why don't they refer to them as "cyclonic storms in the Western Hemisphere with winds exceeding 72 mph" more often? You know, just to change it up and be original.
Oh yeah, because it's easier to simply call something by its name.
August 28th, 2017 at 3:59 PM ^
Fuck you. There was zero need to take this where you took it. Zero. I didn't insult your intellegence, I said it doesn't mean what you think it means, and it doesn't. It has recently "evolved" to the definition you posted (precisely because so many people "smarter than me" keep using it that way), and you left that part out. Convenient. You didn't have to make it personal, or insulting, but you did. And you're still mostly wrong. So yeah, fuck you.
Deus ex machina (Latin: [ˈdeʊs ɛks ˈmaː.kʰɪ.naː]: /ˈdeɪ.əs ɛks ˈmɑːkiːnə/ or /ˈdiːəs ɛks ˈmækɪnə/;[1] plural: dei ex machina) is a Latin calque from Greek ἀπὸ μηχανῆς θεός (apò mēkhanês theós), meaning 'god from the machine'.[2]The term has evolved to mean a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly resolved by the inspired and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability or object. Its function can be to resolve an otherwise irresolvable plot situation, to surprise the audience, to bring the tale to a happy ending, or act as a comedic device.
August 28th, 2017 at 7:06 PM ^
into a thread with an absurd statement (that the word doesn't mean exactly what it does mean) attempting to insult my intelligence, but really only insulting your own, and then you get defensive and butthurt that I insulted your intelligence back? Look, I'm sorry if you took that personally. You attempted to rib me, I ribbed you back a bit harder for failing miserably. No need to be so sensitive.
All words evolve into their meanings at some point or another! The fact remains that this word means exactly what I intended it to mean, and somehow you still claim it doesn't? The exact etymology of a word is completely irrelevant to its current meaning.
Even if it became a word as recently as the "internet" became a word, I'd be 100 percent correct, but it's been used this way (that the 'gods' don't have to be literal gods saving the day) for hundreds of years dating back to Shakeperean times. Keep reading your Wikipedia article for context into what "recent" means. The ancient usage was in reference to literal gods that were introduced to resolve story lines, the "modern" usage took the more broad meaning back around 1700.
August 28th, 2017 at 2:20 AM ^
They started to lose me when the army of the dead attacked Hardhome a few seasons ago and continued to walk south..... for what 3 seasons? Meanwhile The lanister army marches from King's Landing to High garden, sac High garden and return to kings landing in an episode. Jon Snow makes it from Winterfell to Dragonstone in an episode, meanwhile it took 3 seaons for the undead army to march 400 kilomters. at this rate it would take them another full season and a half to get to Winterfell.
I really wanted to enjoy this season but when most of the dialogue is You have to meet Jon Snow, I know him he's cool, ok send him a raven... poof Jon Snow appears. I expect a lot more from the writers or maybe, it's just because now they are writing without source material so we can just now see their short comings. I'd rather wait 2 years for a well put together final season than have them do it like this current season.
The good thing is this season has made me really want to read the books. I don't think much of this season is anything close to how George RR. Martin intended. Now I just have to hope he finishes the books before he dies.
August 28th, 2017 at 8:31 AM ^
Maybe the dead weren't marching south the whole time? Maybe, just maybe, they were accumulating? It would probably take a long time to find 100,000 people north of the wall, kill them, and consume them into your dead army. Especially after most of the free folk bolted for the wall years ago! Why did they have to be marching the entire time?
Sometimes, things can be left to the imagination - that's what makes great books great.
August 28th, 2017 at 8:33 AM ^
Something to consider for why they were marching towards the wall for so long: how did we know they had a way around the wall? Everyone assumed they could find a way to get past the wall, but it seems as though they needed a dead dragon to fall into their lap to be able to make it happen. Kind of funny to think that if Jon snow and company simply avoided going north of the wall ever again and left the WW alone, they could have just avoided the whole situation.
August 28th, 2017 at 9:13 AM ^
Until they built boats, I suppose
August 28th, 2017 at 10:27 AM ^
August 28th, 2017 at 4:31 PM ^
August 28th, 2017 at 1:48 AM ^
or else everyone would just end up dead, and we would have a Sopranos Finale. Which was actually pretty cool, btw...
August 28th, 2017 at 5:11 AM ^
August 28th, 2017 at 9:11 AM ^
Bran said Jon is a Sand and then Sam said no he's legit so he's a Targ. Bran was already in the room when Lyanna told Ned that the baby's name was Aegon Targaryn. He should have already known. Right?
August 28th, 2017 at 9:13 AM ^
All he saw was the bay and the name. As far as whether Lyanna was married or not... It doesn;t look like there was a whole lot of time to catch up on recent events when Ned got in the room.
August 28th, 2017 at 9:17 AM ^
You said it. The name. That's the key part, the name.
August 28th, 2017 at 9:16 AM ^
Don't look too closely, you'll see the hand waving.
August 28th, 2017 at 9:18 AM ^
In that prior Tower of Joy scene, Bran 1) was not yet the three-eyed raven (he was with the prior three-eyed raven, who was hustling him away), and 2) he saw Lyanna whisper the secret to Ned, but didn't hear what she said.
So no, he should not have already known.
He's clearly still coming into his own as the three-eyed raven. And he needs to focus on a specific moment/event in order to gather detailed information. E.g., him observing the Rhaegar-Lyanna wedding ceremony.
August 28th, 2017 at 9:27 AM ^
Bran saw that Lyanna had the kid, but then he had to break off the warg because the Night King was coming for him. Or something like that - he had to break it off early. Probably never went back...
August 28th, 2017 at 9:21 AM ^
August 28th, 2017 at 9:21 AM ^
Sure you could punch holes in the logistics in the script but its production value that is second to none. I mean the dragons and Bran couldn't resolve this whole damned thing in two episodes. As long as Littlefinger got his, I was happy. The rest of the episode was somewhat predictable like the Mayweather fight, but I was entertained.
Now what to do until next season? There are already leaked scripts for season 8. but I'm trying to resist. Football, Better Call Saul, Rick and Morty will only last a few months.. so I'm turning to studying the real history that GOT is based on. History is stranger than fiction ...
August 28th, 2017 at 9:30 AM ^
One of the interesting challenges for the writers (in addition to the obvious one of going off on their own to wrap it all up without original GRRM material to guide them) is that the closing off and/or bringing together of the many, many story lines and characters results in an ever-narrowing scope of events.
When so much of the series has been paced and developed around jumping the viewers from one far flung, relatively (seemingly) disconnected place/series of events to another, it's feeling less and less complicated than it once was. And therefore the writers can rightly assume that a large portion of the viewership will find that less satisfying.
Hence you see the motivation for D&D to string out the Arya-Sansa-Littlefinger Winterfell plot line. A few seasons back that would have been played out far less obviously, because that whole thread would've been introduced, developed and resolved in one episode, maybe two max. Instead it plodded along. And I think that's precisely because the writers now have this struggle of trying to keep more than just a couple of plot lines going in a given episode.
How they would've handled all that with a full slate of GRRM material at their fingertips is an interesting thought. Instead, they're working hard to do what they were never meant to do (create the plot) and inevitably their true craft (at which they had previously excelled) suffers.
August 28th, 2017 at 9:44 AM ^
What are the chances the whole thing has a happy ending next season? And by happy, I mean Cersei gets what she deserves and Jon Snow becomes the rightful king, with all of the redeeming characters getting to live. Not sure what to do about Jaime given that he threw Bran out a window. He and Sansa seem to have a similar situation -- they did things to harm the Stark family but paid for it later with pain and suffering.
August 28th, 2017 at 10:32 AM ^
August 28th, 2017 at 10:33 AM ^
August 28th, 2017 at 11:37 AM ^
How about: Wight-Jaime kills Cersei after getting killed up north and raised by the Night King into his army.
Part of the witch's prophecy about Cersei: "the little brother shall wrap his hands around your pale, white throat and choke the life from you."
People have often thought that means Tyrion (the LITTLE brother). And that's been considered a subtext for Cersei's hatred of Tyrion.
But Jaime was the second of the twins, following Cersei. So ... the "little brother."
That would actually be a tasty end to Cersei: she is perfectly content to flaunt the moral code and have a lifelong incestuous relationship with her brother, including having multiple children by him ... two of whom she puts on the throne. Then, after he grows a conscience she's perfectly capable of writing him off (he effectively became an outcast at her hand in this episode).
So the one who was content to say she's horrified by the zombies' reality, but not horrified enough to really do anything about it ... gets offed by her zombie-brother-illicit lover. Sweet!
August 28th, 2017 at 11:16 AM ^
Aegon Targaryen is absolutely going to die. In a badass, spectacular and heroic way of course. Cersei will get hers as the prophecy said.
Lots of people will die. My guess is the Stark children all survive. Lannisters all die. Preggo Dany rules what is left.
August 28th, 2017 at 10:31 AM ^
I may have probably missed something, but how exactly was guaranteed the white walker army was going to get past the Wall before that had that dragon? In other words, did Jon Snow and his screw basically make that happen just by trying to catch a live one for the Cercei to see?
August 28th, 2017 at 10:49 AM ^
For all Jon knows, Viserion is still at the bottom of that frozen lake. So how is he assuming that the Night Kind and the Army of the Dead is going to make it past the wall?
This season should have been 8 episodes instead of 7. Between episodes 4 and 7, they could have inter-jected another 70 minutes of relatively inexpensive/non-CGI content to fill in plot holes, explain more backstory without exposition, and show characters moving from one place to the next instead of being in one place one moment and teleporting to another the next.
One example among many: Show Jon's Magnificent Seven expedition gearing up with dragonglass weapons. There are many, many others.
August 28th, 2017 at 11:58 AM ^
Two prophecies matter here: "Then comes another younger, more beautiful, to cast you down and take all you hold dear" (TV and book) and "the Valonqar shall wrap his hands around your pale white throat and choke the life from you" (book only). Since "Valonqar" means "little brother," the book is more restrictive of who will actually kill Cersei, but since the show never shared that part, the series could have any that fits the "younger, more beautiful" part kill her (as long as you assume that Margaery wasn't that part of the prophecy).
Based on this, the candidates as I see them:
Tyrion
Jaime
Dies giving birth
Daenerys (herself, or via a dragon)
Night King (himself, or via his undead dragon)
Arya
I think that Daenerys is the least likely here if you're going strictly by prophecy. And it would seem that Tyrion or Jaime would be the odds on favorites.
But I'm going with Arya. She appears to have the least connection to the prophecy, but here's how I see it playing out: the second to last episode ends with a fight between Arya and Jaime which ends on a cliffhanger with you not knowing which one of them lives. Then in the last episode, you see Jaime returning to Cersei's side in time for the birth of their child. But then Jaime kills her and it turns out it's actually Arya wearing Jaime's face.
Maybe the show wouldn't do this again since it's a repeat of what they did with the Freys, but it's the one I'm rooting for.
August 28th, 2017 at 2:44 PM ^
I just started reading book 1 today, and interestingly, there's a bit about how the Targaryen's marry each other, brother to sister, to keep the bloodline pure and continuous. So Jon Snow and Daenerys getting together is not an incestuous no-no.
August 29th, 2017 at 12:06 PM ^