If Red Berenson Won't Retire, He Should Be Fired
[Patrick Barron]
So here's a post I absolutely never wanted to write. Despite being an e-site on the internet staffed by basement trolls, historically this space has been very slow to get on a soapbox and say FIRE THIS GUY. I was still barely on board with Rodriguez after his third season and only called for Hoke's firing after the Shane Morris concussion fiasco. Meanwhile other parts of the internet call us Beilein slaps, because other parts of the internet are dirt stupid Rome listeners. And I love not just Michigan hockey but damn the torpedoes, screw your trap, let's score a buttload of goals Red Berenson hockey. Without Berenson it's likely I'm not a hockey fan of any variety.
But I kind of have to write this, because apparently missing the tournament for the fourth time in five years with the worst team Red Berenson's had since the mid-80s isn't enough for everyone involved:
I think Red Berenson will be back for a final season. We'll see what happens with meeting later this week with Warde Manuel. @umichhockey
— George Sipple (@GeorgeSipple) April 2, 2017
George has a pretty good feel for these things. Have been told the chances of him retiring are growing slimmer by the day. https://t.co/1WshrO0XUz
— Michael Spath (@MichaelSpathITH) April 2, 2017
This is why I was fretting about Michigan's post-Frozen-Four decision date on Berenson. If there was a decision to make it should have been made midseason, probably after Michigan handed a Tom Anastos-led Michigan State team two of their three conference wins. If not then, then immediately after the season. And yet.
Red Berenson is no longer a good hockey coach. Michigan's decline has been near-constant for a decade, with two items obscuring that: walk-on goalie Shawn Hunwick turning in two of the program's best-ever years in goal and last year's near-unprecedented pile of NHL talent. While Berenson should get credit for each, those are blips as Michigan hockey slaloms downhill.
Even when Michigan has been at a relative peak during their decline, North Dakota pops up to remind us that Berenson's approach has been lapped by modern hockey coaches. The last two times Michigan and North Dakota have met in the NCAA tournament Michigan has gotten outshot two to one. They won one of those with the greatest single-game goalie performance in program history. Last year they lost, meekly, because they could not even get out of their own zone.
That should have been the last straw. Michigan is no longer a program that can go into any game against a top-end foe and expect to have an even game even if their entire power play should already be in the NHL. North Dakota flat-out embarrassed Michigan in that game, and they specifically embarrassed Michigan's coaching.
It was not the last straw, so Michigan fans were treated to a season in which the only thing keeping them from a single-digit-win season was outstanding goaltending. Michigan finished 57th of 60 D-I teams in even-strength Corsi*. Forgive me if I bring out my inner Jim Rome right now, but that is flat-out unacceptable. Michigan controlled their zones about as well as 5-31-3 Niagara, 7-21-6 Alaska-Anchorage, and second-year independent Arizona State—which is still using club players.
Talent is indisputably down, but not that much. There are nine NHL draft picks on the roster and a tenth player (Luke Martin) will go in the next one. It is distantly possible that you could build a case for Red to return if Michigan had missed the tournament by a hair. They did not. They missed it by a mile, and the underlying numbers are even worse than the record.
Michigan's coaching is not and has not been an asset since Mel Pearson left. Pearson is working with scraps and guys from places so remote that Houghton seems like a metropolis in comparison. He's made the tournament twice in the last three years, and finished in the top five of even strength Corsi all three years. His talent is at best average in the WCHA; he outperforms. Berenson's talent was at worst league-average in the Big Ten; he underperforms.
Meanwhile there are signs every year that nobody's afraid of Red anymore—that nobody even respects him. This year Cooper Marody was academically ineligible for the first half of the year, which hasn't happened since I've been paying attention. Every NHL talent flees the instant it's an option. Jon Merrill missed half a season with personal issues a few years back; things never should have gotten that bad with him. When Andrew Copp jumped to the NHL after his junior season, Red slammed his character and that of his father. When Mike Spath related this, Copp's furious father responded at length, explaining why Copp decided that another year in Ann Arbor would not be a positive for his hockey career.
The year Copp decided to leave Michigan excluded him from the hockey banquet entirely: not a mention of his name. For the captain of the team. Does that sound like a rational person?
[Bill Rapai]
Red Berenson is 77. His hockey team was horrendous this year. He appears increasingly incapable of controlling the kids on his team. He's been on his "final" season for three years now. If he won't retire he is RedPa. Warde Manuel should do him a favor and prevent that from happening.
*[Corsi is your percent of all shot attempts. It is broadly more predictive of future events than actual goals, which are lower in number and subject to goalie vagaries.]
A common quality among two individuals does not make the two inidividuals the same person. Check your logic.
Red is a decent guy who doesn't belong in the same sentence as Joe Fucking Paterno.
He didn't say they're the same person, he's talking about the common quality you admit. I agree it's best not to compare him to JoePa though.
Why not Bobby Bowden? He was in the same boat as JoePa without the scandal.
Ouch, that hurts. Because it's not a ludicrous comparison (except for coverup of child molestation).
Your inability to imagine the program without you is no reason to stay; hang 'em up, Red. We'll always love you for your playing days and glory days as coach.
aside, JoePa was doing horrible his last 10 years
Didn't Red at one point say that he would step away once staying would be detrimental to the program? It seemed that was genuine, how are we here now?
Has EARNED the right to retire on his own accord. Period.
Seems like a rational plan.
Gross comparison and all, but this is the only reaction I can muster:
No one earns the right to crater the program, and we don't do Red any favors by allowing him to damage the program he loves.
so let's say he lives to be 97. Should he just get to run the program completely into the ground for another 20 years if he wants? How about 10 more years? 5?
I love when people have a completely absurd stupid irrational take and end it with "Period", as if that somehow legitimizes it or will sway anybody with common sense.
I always feel like that when dictating texts into my phone "I'll be there later tonight PERIOD did you have a good day today QUESTION MARK Talk to you soon PERIOD".
Michigan this year was 13-19-1 with 6 wins in the Big Ten out of 20.
they were nowhere near the NCAA playoffs. We are a worse team than Union, Providence, Air Force, Harvard, Michigan Tech, and Minnesota-Duluth. This isnt just about Boston, BC, Minnesota and North Dakota anymore.
So if Red wants to coach till 82 and give us 5 more season of 10-13 win seasons, while recruits go elsewhere. and Mel Pearson continues to win at Michigan Tech and aging to 63, you are okay with it?
He's earned the right to do that. To Michigan?
No. hes not Bo Schembechler, and Bo would not even do that to Michigan.
Is we have nothing like Sandusky in the program (thank God).
Otherwise, I agree, and I am absolutely not saying Brian was insinuating anything of the sort involving Red, but the first thing I think of when I think of Joe Paterno is turning a blinde eye to Sandusky.
Gross as it is with the Sandusky hindsight, the RedPa comparison is apt because before anyone knew anything about the Sandusky coverup, the exact same arguments were trotted out in State College year after year after year, even as Paterno was visibly unable to keep up (physically and mentally) with his job. "Joe deserves the right to retire when he wants to." "He's a legend who should be able to leave when he wants to." "As long as he thinks he can do the job, who are we to second-guess it?" "We don't really know what's going on behind the scenes. He's still with it!"
Yes, Sandusky. But what we're talking about here isn't covering up a pedophile--it's hanging on to your job at the expense of the program, while the fanbase has long argued you have every right to do so because they don't know the program any other way.
Agreed - lost me on RedPa. Paterno was a criminal.
What gets me about the Joe Paterno comparisons was Joe Pa was 84 when he retired; he was barely aware of what was going on out there. His assistants did basically everything, and there were times where Joe Pa just sat in a booth and (per some stories I can't find anymore) fell asleep during a timeout. Red isn't that gone by any stretch. He should retire, but the comparison to a doddering old man is unfair.
Yes, but even afterwards there wasn't a strong push to have him back on the sideline, and at least once he sat in the booth because he was ill, which makes sense considering he was 80+.
The situation with the hockey team reminds me of a class I took at UofM, EECS 216. The professor was well past his prime. He would mumble incoherently during class. The only time he got excited about anything during class was when he was talking about his boat. I went to office hours desperately trying to figure out what he intended to teach us. I was overcome by the smell of cigarette smoke. There would be more mumbling and incoherent answers to questions. His exams were exact cut and paste questions out of the text book that we never covered in class. Exams were open book, so if you were lucky enough to find the problem during the exam hour, you could pass the test.
I received an incomplete in that class. When I followed up, trying to figure out what happened, I learned that he forgot to record my final exam grade. He thought I dropped the class. I told him I took the exam and hadn't dropped his class, so he bumped my grade up to a C-. So finally, I brought my exam into his office to show him I had passed the damn test and he gave me a B-. That was my worst grade at UofM and by far my worst experience at the school. Six months later, he died.
I get it that Red has built the program, etc., etc., but at some point, you have to ask, what is in the best interest of the student-athlete? The university exists to educate students, not to provide life-time jobs to faculty. Likewise, the athletic department exists (at least in theory) to give opportunities to students to play intercollegiate athletics.
I'm not close enough to the hockey program to know what's going on, but listening to others such as Brian, it's clear Warde needs to do the right thing for the players and the program and fire Red.
Good story. As someone getting up in age myself (almost the big 60) I worry a bit about age discrimination. My company actively works to fire older more expensive employees - they long did away with any severace bonus based upon years of service - all while making insane profits.
That said at some point you don't have the same abilities - mental and otherwise that you used to have. I thought it was interesting that Wayne State is taking on tenured professors who they say have stopped being productive faculty members. I recall in middle school having a doddering old teacher who had lost all motivation and ability to teach but she continued to hang on.
I can't attack my job with the same energy I had in my 20's. Experience and knowledge makes up the gap but I can't imagine being able to bust ass at 77.
Obviously Red is a high functioning 77 year old but the day has come for a change. I think it you told him you did not want him back, he would retire. If that is a firing then so be it.
It is to the point where he is hurting the program. Staying one more year will only make it more difficult to climb the mountain. C'mon Warde, step up and make this happen with all the respect Red deserves. If he forces your had by refusing to retire, it is your job to make the tough decision.
The situation with the hockey team reminds me of a class I took at UofM, EECS 216. The professor was well past his prime. He would mumble incoherently during class. The only time he got excited about anything during class was when he was talking about his boat. I went to office hours desperately trying to figure out what he intended to teach us. I was overcome by the smell of cigarette smoke. There would be more mumbling and incoherent answers to questions. His exams were exact cut and paste questions out of the text book that we never covered in class. Exams were open book, so if you were lucky enough to find the problem during the exam hour, you could pass the test.
I received an incomplete in that class. When I followed up, trying to figure out what happened, I learned that he forgot to record my final exam grade. He thought I dropped the class. I told him I took the exam and hadn't dropped his class, so he bumped my grade up to a C-. So finally, I brought my exam into his office to show him I had passed the damn test and he gave me a B-. That was my worst grade at UofM and by far my worst experience at the school. Six months later, he died.
I get it that Red has built the program, etc., etc., but at some point, you have to ask, what is in the best interest of the student-athlete? The university exists to educate students, not to provide life-time jobs to faculty. Likewise, the athletic department exists (at least in theory) to give opportunities to students to play and compete effectively in intercollegiate athletics. The coaching staff should be hired based on what best facilitates that objective.
I'm not close enough to the hockey program to know what's going on, but listening to others such as Brian, it's clear Warde needs to do the right thing for the players and the program and fire Red.
JoePa was a scumbag, Red just won't retire. Bobby Bowden or maybe Frank Beamer are the better comparisons.
No one here wants to see Red get fired, but Red is putting the AD in an awful position where, instead of going out admirably and getting all the fanfare his retirement would deserve, he is insisting on staying and letting the program fester, apparently obvlious or aloof to how bad it is getting. This is Red's fault for creating this awkward situation. Should've retired about 5 years ago.
"No player is more important than the team. No coach is more important than the team. The Team! The Team! The Team!"
It's time Warde. It's time Red.
It's time.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS
Warde needs to bring in some older alumni and players and have them call him and chat about graceful exits stage left.
IF Red is back next year, there should be no doubt going into it that it's his last season.
Red and Warde need to hold a press conference, state that this is his last year, and leave no doubt in anybodys mind that Michigan will be looking for a new coach.
This is ridiculous going into each season waiting to see if Red will retire, or if Warde figures out what to do with this position.
This is the only way I'd be OK with Red coming back. Announce it right now, and be done with it.
and here we are again with Red seemingly on the cusp of returning. Again. It's a tough spot for Warde, but we need to stop giving Red blank checks
But I don't think it was ever formally stated that Red would be 100% done after a seasons end. It was always a wait-and-see approach if I'm remembering correctly
are the same guys that wanted Beilein's scalp.
M stands for loyalty, integrity and character. Many of you do not have it.
Red knows when to say when.
If John Beilein recruited the caliber of talent that Michigan Hockey landed, he'd have half as many national titles Red has.
No tournament with Dylan Larkin. Missed the tournament in 2013, 2014 and 2015 with first round draft picks on the roster.
So, he'd have one national title?
Obviously not?
Uh. clearly not
There are plenty of times that individual posters may be acting like jerks on this Board. But this certainly isn't one of them. Not close. Almost all of the posts here are tempered and respectful of Red, his accomplishments, and what he has meant to Michigan. You apparently believe that Red gets to somehow be bigger than the program. He does not. He has had ample opportunity to create an exit path on his own terms. He has chosen not to. And don't pretend that you are nobler and and/or more loyal than the rest of us. You are not.
Red is The Underaker.
Undertaker retired last night after an awful match where he struggled to move around the ring and do moves. He's stayed way too long and has stayed around long enough for his performance to be so bad that people feel bad and wanted him to retire.
Very similar.
There's no reason for this to continue. No one has "earned" the right to burn down the program they built because they don't wanna say goodbye.
And yet, Vince didn't can him. He worked out a way to retire, gracefully.
Fire him if you want, but I wish people wouldn't minimize how callous it will be. Doesn't mean you owe it to Red, but this "fire the guy" talk always ignores these are human beings. But then again, we just watch them play/coach a sport for our entertainment.
Uh..., the person standing squarely in the way of that at this point is Red.
I mean, I'm sure everyone (with maybe the exception of Red) would be fine calling it anything but a firing if it actually came to firing him.
Nobody wants to embarrass Red, but he's doing it all to himself at this point. If I'm 77 and working and suck at my job, I would hope somebody that cares about me would make that abundantly clear. If I don't do anything about it, go ahead and fire me because I'm definitely against people who are bad at a job having that job just because "they were good at it a while ago" so they've earned it.
I agree with everything except the RedPa reference. The non-football aspects of that comparison are so radioactive as to disqualify it from being appropriate. Has Red overstayed to the detriment of the program? Yes. But it most people's minds, that's not what JoePa is famous for. So, call for Red's firing, assert he's stayed too long, don't put him in the same box as a champion of rapists and pedophiles.
There were many PSU fans calling for JoPa to go long before the Sandusky issue came out. Yes both be and Red earned the right to stay on 'till they decided go. Unfortunately they took advanatage of the situation well into their coaching decline.
This is an area where I think the feelings of certain groups of core supporters would be extremely interesting and relevant. Brian, a core fan, has made his feelings known. I am very curious about Alton's feelings about this, because Alton is about as loyal a fan of any program as you can have, and he's not given to impulse.
The most relevant group here is probably the Dekers club, which is a reasonably tight group of donors / friend of the program types who have been around for a looooong time.
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