blue in dc

September 23rd, 2016 at 11:42 AM ^

"There is definitely wiggle room there for the cyclist to do everything they feel necessary to be safe. If I'm in a road that has two lanes in my direction, i will ride with enough distance from the curb that my only safe option will never be to swerve left, which usually requires 3 feet or so. But if someone passes me within striking distance, I will take up enough of the lane that future passers have to acknowledge my existence, usually right in the middle. If drivers are being more aggressive, I feel it is even more important to use aggressive lane positioning to protect myself from them and increase my visibility. If I'm going 25 in a 35, and someone misjudges the distance or just doesn't me, any hit would likely be fatal." Aggressive lane positioning to prevent passing is not the same as "riding as far to the right as practicable" 'I don't know about that. I've found that the closer to the center of the lane I ride, the more room they give when passing. It also mitigates the distracted driver problem by causing a slow line of cars for them to get caught in" Driving closer to the center of the lane is not "riding as far to the right as practicable".

Joined: 01/22/2011

MGoPoints: 20401

wolpherine2000

September 23rd, 2016 at 6:31 PM ^

Although I agree with your strategy on lane position, courts in Michigan and elsewhere have ruled that the middle of the lane may be "as far to the right as is practicable". It possible, but not safe, nor practicable, to hug the shoulder and encourage a vehicle to pass up safely in the same lane as is occupied by the bicycle. The vehicle code's avoidance of the word possible is intentional and meaningful. In Michigan and California, a bicycle in the middle of the lane to prevent an unsafe, in-lane pass by another vehicle is not in violation of the "impeding traffic" section of the code. This isn't true in certain states (like Idaho) where Delay of Five Vehicles is illegal irrespective of whether the bike or car has the right to be in the lane - if there are five vehicles behind you, you are required to pull over and let them pass when it is safe to do so.

Joined: 07/10/2009

MGoPoints: 8835

wolpherine2000

September 24th, 2016 at 12:10 AM ^

...preside over a court of your own imagination?  Reread the law and its standard interpretation:

 

If traveling below the normal speed of traffic, a cyclist must ride as close as practicable to the right‑hand curb or edge of the road, except…

If riding your bike below the posted speed limit, a cyclist is required to ride as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the road. (MCL 257.660a) However, this statute recognizes five (5) exceptions or situations where a cyclist need not ride as close to the right hand curb or edge of the road as practicable:

  • When passing another bicycle or a vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
  • When preparing to turn left.
  • When conditions make the right hand edge of the roadway unsafe or unreasonably unsafe for bicycle users, including, but not limited to:
    • Surface hazards (i.e., ruts in the pavement or potholes);
    • An uneven roadway surface;
    • Drain openings;
    • Debris;
    • Parked or moving vehicles or bicycles;
    • Pedestrians;
    • Animals;
    • Other obstacles; or
    • The lane is too narrow to permit a vehicle to safely overtake and pass a bicycle.
  • When operating a bicycle in a lane in which traffic is turning right, but the cyclist intends to proceed straight through the intersection; and
  • When riding on a one-way highway or street that has two (2) or more lanes. In this situation, the cyclist may also ride as close to the left curb or edge of the roadway as practicable.

Joined: 07/10/2009

MGoPoints: 8835

xtramelanin

September 24th, 2016 at 6:57 AM ^

and is a champ.  we are both very sympathetic to bikers on the road (i'll be riding in about an hour) but don't be so stubborn.  only in snowflake land does someone think that their handy-dandy internet guide trump actual experience and how that actual experience works out in court.  a 12' wide lane is not 'too narrow' to pass a bicyclist.  get over yourself and ride safely.  

Joined: 12/09/2014

MGoPoints: 15439

blue in dc

September 23rd, 2016 at 7:55 AM ^

While generally Mad Hatter seems to be a complete ass in his attitude towards cyclists, the intent of the law is pretty clear that you should be riding closer to the right side of the road. It is that kind of aggressive riding that makes drivers angry at the rest of us who are trying to obey the law.

Joined: 01/22/2011

MGoPoints: 20401

The Mad Hatter

September 23rd, 2016 at 8:17 AM ^

I don't see where I'm being an "ass" towards cyclists.  My point is that the roads were designed for cars, not bikes.  Any collision between a bike and a car is not going to end well for the bike.

Should people be more careful around bikes?  Sure.  Should bike riders follow the same rules of the road as car drivers?  Yes, but they seldom do, at least in my observations.

 

Joined: 02/17/2015

MGoPoints: 112109

blue in dc

September 23rd, 2016 at 8:38 AM ^

Your opinion that roads should be the sole jurisdiction of cars and that bikes should not be allowed on them qualifies as being an ass towards cyclists. You are more than entitled to have that opinion, just as I am entitled to my opinion of it.

Joined: 01/22/2011

MGoPoints: 20401

Njia

September 23rd, 2016 at 9:14 AM ^

But on this topic, I concur with him. The LAW says that cyclists are entitled to use the roads, sure; but the laws of PHYSICS say that cyclists are going to come up on the short end of the stick in a tangle with a 2-ton death mobile, whatever the public statues may mandate.

Joined: 09/15/2009

MGoPoints: 35773

blue in dc

September 23rd, 2016 at 10:51 AM ^

And they did not come from a place of dislike for cyclists on roads but were merely an expression of love, respect and caring for all people, regardless of the number of wheels on the vehicle they use and the source of power of that vehicle, I am sorry. If it is only because I so insensitively suggested that contrary to the true feelings within your heart, you were a complete ass with regards to your attitude towards cyclists, I apologize. And finally, if I through my actions have transformed a man who used to be able to peacefully coexist with all men, no matter the number of wheels on the vehicles in their garages, to a man who now has no choice but to believe thar we should, "fuck bicycle riders", I am sorry not only to you, but to any cyclist subject to the rage that I have caused.

Joined: 01/22/2011

MGoPoints: 20401

blue in dc

September 23rd, 2016 at 12:06 PM ^

I love a good argument - I suspect that an evening of beer drinking with you would be very interesting. Some parts would be interesting and respectful debate, some parts would royally piss both of us off and some parts would probably make each us go back and re-think some things. It"s also awfully hard not to respect someone who took the time to reply to a post poking fun at them.

Joined: 01/22/2011

MGoPoints: 20401

blue in dc

September 23rd, 2016 at 9:51 AM ^

The driver is. Cars and bikes can co-exist on roads when both parties obey the rules and common courtesy. If you don't want to share the road with a biker, stop driving. By your logic we should also ban walking, because the pedestrian is also likely to come up on the short end of the stick if they are hit by scar crossing the street. If drivers, cyclists and pedestrians all obeyed the lpublic statutes, the laws of physics would be much less if a problem.

Joined: 01/22/2011

MGoPoints: 20401

blue in dc

September 23rd, 2016 at 7:46 AM ^

Are you one of those asshats in a car who rolls down his window and curses at a biker who is riding legally, drives through crosswalks at stopsigns when pedestrians are crossing, either sits right behind a biker for minutes when they could easily pass or alternatively passes them providing as little room as they possibly can or the myriad of other things shitty drivers often do to cyclists and pedestrians?

Joined: 01/22/2011

MGoPoints: 20401

ShruteBeetFarms

September 22nd, 2016 at 11:17 PM ^

He was on a bicycle yet thought he was operating a car. He pedaling  slow in the middle of the lane. Then he turned onto a 4 lane road. I was behind him and signaled that I was changing lanes to pass him. So then the asshole doesn't even look as he now wants to change lanes and get in front of me. He swerved back into his lane once he saw me which prevented me from hitting him. It was like he was thinking " hey I'm operating an indestructable tank, nothing can hurt me" only the douchebag was on a 10 speed.

Joined: 09/25/2010

MGoPoints: 63922

Bo Glue

September 23rd, 2016 at 6:41 AM ^

I salute your use of another lane to pass. Too many drivers don't seem to realize that's an option. I've had people flat out raging about how slow I was going (sometimes actually above the speed limit) on a three lane road. Just use one of the other lanes dude.

And changing lanes without looking or signalling is dumb whether you're in a bike or on a car. That was a poor choice by the biker, no doubt about it.

Joined: 04/02/2012

MGoPoints: 13007

Ghost of Fritz…

September 23rd, 2016 at 9:24 AM ^

this morning you saw a cyclist out there doing dumb things.

But do you get equally enraged when you see another car driver do dumb things?  If you do, then good for you.  You are a fair minded person.

Usually, however, I see the speeding, yellow light running, talking/texting on the phone while driving, U-turing over the double yellow line, car driver berating even law abiding cyclists.

Joined: 10/04/2014

MGoPoints: 23880

MMB 82

September 23rd, 2016 at 1:37 AM ^

I always observe the rules of the road. ALWAYS. I have no sympathy for assholes, whether they are riding or behind the wheel of a car.

I wear a helmet, and bright hi-visiblity kit (that Yellow/Green Fluoro color).

I ride very early in the morning, out on the road by 5:30-6:00 AM and finishing 50+ miles before 9 AM. Keeping to rural or side roads, avoiding major traffic thoroughfares if at all possible.

I ride in the bike lane, or stay over to the right side of the road. The only time I take a lane is when I have no other choice, or if I am going downhill at similar speeds. I respect cars, and assume they can't see me, ALWAYS.

Mantistoboggan, don't be a jerk.

 

Joined: 07/06/2008

MGoPoints: 18722

mgolund

September 23rd, 2016 at 9:17 AM ^

I think what makes people so upset is that we are always in a damn hurry to get somewhere. Encountering a cyclist (whether riding responsibly or not) inevitably causes some sort of delay in the car's trip. Usually, that delay is no more than 30 seconds. But that feels like an eternity and people get pissed. 

Take a deep breath - you'll get where you need to go. Remember that the person on the bicycle is a person, has a family waiting for him/her. Seriously, it will be okay.

For whatever it's worth, I've found that, in my area, the vast majority of drivers are very courteous to me when I'm cycling. And, I do them the "courtesy" of following the rules of the road. 

Joined: 07/23/2008

MGoPoints: 5146

Bo Glue

September 23rd, 2016 at 9:24 AM ^

Drivers in Ann Arbor are way more reasonable than those in Denver. It's one reason I am glad to be back. Definitely see some little deserved rage on Stadium sometimes, but in general the road design is better, and the road rage is better managed.

Joined: 04/02/2012

MGoPoints: 13007

Goggles Paisano

September 23rd, 2016 at 6:56 AM ^

Serious question - why do bikers not use sidewalks when they are available?  That little tiny bike lane on the road seems very dangerous.  I don't like driving by bikers that are in that bike lane as there is often very little room between my car and their bike.  Seems like a subtle swerve by either the car or the biker could result in a wreck.   

Joined: 07/30/2011

MGoPoints: 41232

2heartedUM

September 23rd, 2016 at 7:33 AM ^

I do the same. Have been a cycling for most my life. I make sure to stop at lights and signs. Ride on mainly back roads early in the morning.  Stay as far right as possbile.  When I see other cyclist not following the rules I get a bit pissed off. 

Joined: 11/24/2011

MGoPoints: 426

MMB 82

September 23rd, 2016 at 10:08 AM ^

Weekends and one day during the week. 50 miles on a bike is like running 5-6 miles, you can build up to doing it regularly without tearing yourself up. Other days I do other things, crosstraining, ya know?

re: sidewalks- that's for pedestrians, and in many municipalties it is illegal. Bicycles are a form of vehicular traffic (I average around 20 mph), and really should be on the road and therefore should always obey the rules of the road. It is actually more dangerous to ride on sidewalks. Note to motorists: because we have to obey the rules of the road, it is safer if you do also- i.e. don't stop at a green light to let us go by, etc., we need to have you be predictable also.

Joined: 07/06/2008

MGoPoints: 18722

Bo Glue

September 23rd, 2016 at 10:31 AM ^

I'm still trying to get up to 50 miles. Did 35 and 26 this week, plus a few others. I'm not sure I agree that running 5-6 miles is as hard...just consider the time spent.

If you can actually average 20 mph biking for the entire time including stops, 50 miles will still take you 2.5 hours. If you just run 6 mph, 6 miles will only take an hour. Rate of calorie burn is probably comparable, although if you can bike that fast, that running speed will not be very challenging. Biking 50 is probably more like running a half marathon.

Joined: 04/02/2012

MGoPoints: 13007

MMB 82

September 23rd, 2016 at 11:47 AM ^

I have run 8 marathons; to me biking a century (100 miles) feels like the same effort and same level of exhaustion as running a half-marathon. I once rode from Durango to Telluride, CO- 130 miles with over 8000 feet of climibing, and riding at altitude no less (over Lizard Head Pass, at 10,000+ feet), that felt like a marathon.

A big factor is how much hill-climbing is involved. 50 miles on the flats is relatively easy, two miles up a 7% grade and you will definitely feel it (and the calorie burn will be impressive). 

Time spent is an issue, but I am normally an early riser and by the time I am rolling into the garage after a ride my wife is just waking up, so it works out. 

Joined: 07/06/2008

MGoPoints: 18722

Mgodiscgolfer

September 23rd, 2016 at 3:37 AM ^

Where all your short comings simply go away with no real consequence. Probably give him key to city for bringing motor vehicle bicycal wrecks to the public eye. They threw a party for the sweater vest for showing just what level of corruption will be praised as long as the end result is a victory over UM. Pathetic win at any cost piece of shit institution.

Joined: 01/13/2011

MGoPoints: 5322