OT: Question on HIIT Training
Bear with me, and suspend your Mike Gittelson (for you youngins', he the S&C coach under Carr) 'eat a pizza before bed' PTSD; fortunately we have left that era, along with two other eras. Harbaugh.
Anyways, just picked up Bigger, Leaner, Stronger (https://www.amazon.com/Bigger-Leaner-Stronger-Bodybuilding-Weightliftin…) - looks like there's a decent amount of science behind this routine? Looking forward to reading more of it this evening after work.
Is anyone working out and using a HIIT program? To be honest, I've never lifted much but I am pretty lean/althletic (5'9/150lbs) and I've got a fair bit of self control with respect to my diet. Looking to get more into strength training and the concept of these short/intense workouts, the results, and fitting this all (most workouts are under an hour?) into a busy work schedule is appealing.
the very nice , Paykasa Kart Bozdurma
Yes. I love the program and stress release. I do HIIT circuit training (lots of different strength exercises and cardio) twice a week and MMA fitness (kickboxing, MMA) once a week. MMA fitness is my favorite because you get to hit, elbow and kick stuff. Good times. What question(s) did you have?
HIIT stands for High Intensity Interval Training, and as the name implies is a form of cardo-respiratory interval training, not a form of resistance training. I guess in theory you could use more resistance type exercises in short high intensity intervals, but it is generally a metabolic conditioning type of workout. It can be a useful tool for weight loss, performance, and overall health benefits, however I believe that resistance training is a better tool than cardio to sustain fat loss and lean mass gain if you only have time for one. If you're looking to build muscle interval training is not the most effective way. At your build, I'd guess you are more focused on lean mass gain rather than fat loss however, no?
where you do whole body lifts for an interval a form of HIIT? Maybe it isn't technically, but people just call it that? That seems to be a solid way to build overall fittness and functional strength.
cue the Xfit defenders of the faith in 3.....2........1........
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What is the color of maize should be on that list before Xfit.
I added it to my personal list a long time ago, I also added diet. But this is the internet so my list doesnt count!
How so?
If you want to look like an idiot in the gym while doing pullups.
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Go to a Crossfit gym. Watch it done at your rec center. Then see if you can type that statement again.
The purpose of Crossfit is to push through as many reps as possible. There is ZERO stress on form. Form, not weight, is how you properly develop muscle strength. The weight comes as you learn to do things correctly.
Depends where you go. The gym I go to focuses a ton on form. Form first, then reps, then add weight.
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The research has been done on the dangers and how much injury rates have gone up among people who do Crossfit. Stay safe.
Could you link one of these studies for me? I have yet to see a conclusive study that shows it is more dangerous than any other form of physical activity.
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There was a study a while ago that said it was about as dangerous as olympic weight-lifting and gymnastics, but less than contact sports like Rugby. And it has similar injury rates as "general fitness", which is (I think) where people can debate. On one hand, it doesn't seem to be more dangerous than general exercise, so that's good! But at the same time, general exercise is very broad, meaning someone can get shin splints running badly on their own, twisting an ankle playing basketball, or half-heartedly lifting weights at the local YMCA without supervision. But with cross fit, you'd assume that things like form and proper technique would be monitored and corrected quickly, along with appropriate amounts of weight. So in that case, compared to the wild west of fitness, something that purports to be all about trainer oversight and group workouts involved complex lifts and regiments basically being the same isn't so hot.
So it depends. Personally, I don't begrduge people workout out how they want. But there really isn't a "best" way to work out, and I think that at times cross fit's focus on being "the sport of exercise" or whatever they say on ESPN2 can rub people the wrong way.
That's pretty reasonable, and I don't disagree. I think you probably see fewer injuries because form and modifications can be better monitored (at a good gym, of course) but probably more in the group of people who want to be more competitive and push themselves too far too fast (as with any other activity).
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"So in that case, compared to the wild west of fitness, something that purports to be all about trainer oversight and group workouts involved complex lifts and regiments basically being the same isn't so hot."
You just said it is just as dangerous as olympic weight-lifting and gymnastics, so your above statement also applies to those two things which also generally have lots of trainer oversight and group and 1 on 1 workouts. So if you use your above logic to criticize crossfit you must also criticize olympic lifting and gymnastics...
Wrong, the research shows the opposite. Back when I was a crossfit zealot (before I mellowed out) I read everything about it I could the military was implementing a lot of crossfit workouts and found that compared to normal pt they had far less injuries and far less wash outs. Injuries occur in crossfit just as in any other workout regimen, the only way in which crossfit leads to more injuries is that it has gained huge popularity and motivated tons of people to actually work out so more people working out more often equals more injuries.
I did a crossfit session once with a friend and have watched a number of people do the workouts (the boxes grew like weeds in the NYC for a bit). If you do proper form and appropriate weights (otherwise known as "lifting weights properly"), sure, it works fine. But if not, you are far more likely to do something wrong and seriously hurting yourself. It's like any workout regime in that respect, but the zealotry and its trendiness allowed a lot of bad elements to stick around.
Actually they preach form then reps, however the giant egos of 90% of the people who walk in the door makes it nearly impossible to keep them from sticking to the plan. It's no different than all the dumbasses in a normal gym benching with a suicide grip, bouncing weight way over their max over their chest, or deadlifting with the most rounded back imaginable. Only in the crossfit games is reps more important than form for the same reason why people play in the super bowl with broken bones and other injuries.
As for the certifications, how much do you think the army of people in all the 24 hour fitnesses know? A crossfit cerficication alone does not make a good coach, one needs to exercise some personal responsibility and do some research into finding a good one...just like with any other kind of coach.
Improperly.
Just youtube some of the training they do. Pull-ups that wrench your back and neck, lifts that basically preach just throwing a ton of colorful weights above your head and popping your shoulders to do so.
There's a reason that the old school guys were some of the best. Aside from the juicing, they didn't go through those regiments for a reason. Structure, form. If you want to build solid muscle without being in a cast/wheelchair when you are 35, stay away from xfit.
Olympic lifts are meant to be done once in one powerful movement. Technique and form is essential. When done for hight reps ( aka cross-fit) it becomes impossible to maintain form and results in injuries to do the complexity of the movement and necessity for your body to be aligned and tight and able to handle the weight in a functional way.
Olympic lifts are meant to build speed and power. Every time an offensive lineman explodes out of his stance and blocks a defender he's going through the same body movements of a clean & jerk or a snatch. Does he do that one time a game or 70? Should his body be adept at doing it once for max effort or 70 for as much effort as possible? There is value in doing olympic lifts at a high volume.
I tried Crossfit and absolutely loved it for a month. I was losing weight and gaining strength and doing those olympic weightlifting moves were seriously fun.
However, during one of the workouts i did something to my neck (pinched a nerve maybe) and couldn't turn my head to the left for like 2 weeks, much less work out.
So yea, I stopped going. I now go to Orange Theory Fitness and I love it. Although the actual lifting is not as fun as crossfit, I have never injured myself. This type of training is good for people like me who walk into a gym and don't know what to do. The classes are 1 hour and fly by because they keep you working the whole time and blast music. It is pretty fun and effective
(The place I go to is not classes with a start time, which is what I love most about it, so Orange Theory is not for me anyway.)
Sounds like the studio owner needs to add more class times. I book 2 weeks in advance so I never have a problem getting in. I like that they charge you $10 if you sign up for a class and don't show. Keeps me motivated to get my butt out of bed at 5:45am
This comment is pure idiocy. I have done Crossfit off and on for about 5 years, I grant you that bad coaching and supervision, particularly for high-volume workouts incorporating complex barbell movements, can lead to injury. However, working out at a well-run XFit gym with high-quality coaching and supervision is no more dangerous than long-distance running (many stress-related injuries), biking (potential for catastrophic accidents), powerlifting, Olympic lifting, or any other physicial activity that is performed under fatigue.
Crossfit is not the ultimate physcial fitness program, but it's also not an absurdly dangerous program like this commenter makes it out to be. Yes, XFit cultists are ridiculous, but the anti-Xfitters are becoming just as "cultish" ridiculous.
What you see on national television is the Games. The games are one aspect of crossfit. Many people safely crossfit for general physical preparedness, which does not remotely resemble programming for games athletes.
Do I think that a 22 year old watching the Games that can open his own gym after a weekend seminar is dangerous? Of course it is. But there are thousands of quality coaches and gyms where the programming is safe and effective.
And there is nothing inherantly dangerous about a handstand pushup.
"safer and likely more effective."
I'd like to see some, any, evidence of this statement.
Just because you can't do a handstand pushup with confidence does not speak to their eficacy within a fitness program.
Have fun with your dumbbell curls while standing on a bosu. I hope you don't fall off and roll an ankle.
If you're falling on your head I think you're doing them wrong.
If you're doing them, you are risking falling on your head. So why do them? Other than macho bs, what do you gain from this risky behavior that you cannot gain using safer behavior?
What a silly argument. If you drive a car you risk crashing.
Why is it better to use free weights instead of a machine? Because free weights force you to utilize all those little stabilizing muscles that get ignored by machines but are important for any application of strength. Why do a handstand pushup instead of a shoulder press? Because it involves far more stabilizing muscles from your toes to the end of your arms. In 8 years I've never seen someone fall on their head or injure themselves doing a handstand pushup.
It greatly depends on the gym and how they do their work outs. If you just do crossfit style workouts you don't gain much muscle beyond the early stage because you keep doing the same amounts of weight. You need to spend time doing heavy sets as well to keep building strengh.
Not necessarily. Most gyms have a dedicated strength portion built into a class that has a linear program.
As I mentioned in my post one could in theory consider using resistance training exercise for short bursts HIIT, but generally HIIT training is a conditioning type of exercise, not generally considered resistance training. It's typically done using more cardio type of exercises such as sprints, rowing, airdyne bike, sled pushes/pulls, body weight calesthenics, etc.
IMO the term "functional" gets thrown around a lot and is a bit of a misnomer. I don't believe there is really any such thing, but if you want to go down that rabbit hole I don't mind a discussion on it, but I'd recommend defining it first before stating something is functional.
Anyways, long story short circuit training is an effective way to exercise when time is short. It however is not the most effective or effecient way to a) build muscle or b) build strength.
If building muscle is the primary goal my recommendation would be to cite Brad Schoenfeld's meta analysis "The Mechanisms of Muscle Hypertrophy and Their Application to Resistance Training":
Current research suggests that maximum gains in muscle hypertrophy are achieved by training regimens that produce significant metabolic stress while maintaining a moderate degree of muscle tension. A hypertrophy-oriented program should employ a repetition range of 6–12 reps per set with rest intervals of 60–90 seconds between sets. Exercises should be varied in a multiplanar, multiangled fashion to ensure maximal stimulation of all muscle fibers. Multiple sets should be employed in the context of a split training routine to heighten the anabolic milieu. At least some of the sets should be carried out to the point of concentric muscular failure, perhaps alternating microcycles of sets to failure with those not performed to failure to minimize the potential for overtraining. Concentric repetitions should be performed at fast to moderate speeds (1–3 seconds) while eccentric repetitions should be performed at slightly slower speeds (2–4 seconds). Training should be periodized so that the hypertrophy phase culminates in a brief period of higher- volume overreaching followed by a taper to allow for optimal supercompensation of muscle tissue.
Source:
http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/articles/mechanisms_of_muscle_hypertrophy…
An easy way to think of gaining muscle mass vs gaining strength:
If you want to gain muscle mass you must fully exhaust the muscle so the body will adapt by building muscle. You do this by using a sub-maximal amount of resistance and doing reps until muscle failure for a few sets.
On the contrary if you want to gain strength you want to engage in max efforts for 1 or very few reps to exhaust the central nervous system while not exhausting the muscles for a few sets with long breaks in between.
You can gain muscle without strength and strength without muscle. For example body builders are generally big but not very strong while gymnasts are generally strong but not very big (and not just talking about height).
Yes, crossfit is a form of HIIT. One of the main points of HIIT and tabata and crossfit is that short intense bursts of activity are more effective than longer sustained activities.