Is John Beilein bitter about Biefeldt transfer?

Submitted by Bluemandew on

Wtka just played Beilein's press conference from yesterday. There was a question  about 5th year grad transfers and how they can be like free agents and does he think it is good or bad for the game.

"JOHN BEILEIN: I think we’re in a dangerous area there where you have the graduate transfer, and then where he can go afterwards and things like that, like we actually have one in our league. Those are difficult things, I think, that we have to look at in the future, and what is the real purpose that have? Is that young man going there just to play basketball? Is he going there to get his Masters degree? How many are getting their Masters degrees? There’s got to be some legitimacy to that rather than just another year of eligibility?

So the mid-majors that are getting to having their best players taken from them — you remember, a guy — there’s a reason a guy has a fifth year, that somewhere during that year he was injured, he had doctors, he had trainers, he had people looking after him at his home school. And now he’s going to take everything they did to another school, right? That’s not necessarily fair to anybody. Or fair to the home school that did all that work, the coaches that worked with them.

So we’ve got to be very careful of this area. I trust the NCAA is looking at it closely and hopefully will continue to make the right strides to make it a situation that really fits everyone much better."

This is the second time this year I have heard Beilein be very critical of the grad transfer rule. I don't ever remember him being critical of this rule before this year. If he wanted to keep Biefeldt he had plenty of opportunities. Beifeldt made it clear he didn't want to leave he wanted to finish his career at Michigan. How would it be fair to take away the opportunity to transfer from a 5th year player you don't want anymore?

lilpenny1316

March 18th, 2016 at 9:55 AM ^

But instead of abolishing the grad transfer rule, they should make the guy sit out a year unless he can prove that he can get his Master's degree in one year.  I know it would have screwed us in football this season, but I want them to make the rule the same for all (grad or undergrad transfer).  

Tex_Ind_Blue

March 18th, 2016 at 10:40 AM ^

Why should the student have any responsibility to show that s/he is going to complete the masters' degree? Is NCAA or the school asking the incoming freshmen to show that they can finish their bachelors' degree in one year or two years or three years? Are they asking them to complete their degrees before they enter the NFL/NBA drafts? Are they all coming back to complete their degrees after their playing career is over?

If the main argument is they are "student" first and "athletes" later,  then they have already fullfiled the minimum requirement of getting a bachelors' degree. The masters' is an option. In reality, not even every non-athlete student goes on to do a masters'. So an undergrad transfer should not be treated the same as a grad transfer. 

Now, if we want to consider them as "atheletes" first and foremost (which is what happens in reality), then your argument would hold some strength. But that's a whole different argument. 

pbmd

March 18th, 2016 at 9:56 AM ^

Max would have been one of the top six players if he stayed
It seemed he would have stayed if he was given a scholarship
Coaches decided against - hoping for a better future with Wagner
Players should have option to maximize their career
Screw the schools
Free agent player for 1 or 2 years barely
Balances the relationship



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funkywolve

March 18th, 2016 at 10:24 AM ^

but the numberss don't add up.  When did Wagner sign with UM?  I didn't think it was until well passed the end of the ncaa tourney.  Did someone else leave the program for them to have two open scholarships?

They have one open scholarship right now, so if UM wanted Brown and wanted to keep Max they could have.  Brown went to Cal so UM still had two open scholarships.  One was used on Wagner and the other one went unused.

Just my pure speculation but I think JB thought the bigs were going to play better than they did this year.  Thus, he didn't feel the need for Max or want Max to cut into their playing time.  Doyle actually looked okay last year.  IMO, he didn't come close this year to replicating what he did in the 2014/15 season.  I'm guessing JB thought with Doyle he had a solid interior player and then was hoping one or more of Donnal/Wilson/Chatman was going to step up.  Unfortunately, Doyle seemed to regress and only Donnal seemed to step up.

aiglick

March 18th, 2016 at 10:00 AM ^

IMO, different sport but it would be pretty hypocritical of us to criticize the grad transfer rule given we got Jake Rudock and he was a major reason for our success.

Besides, we take the view that a scholarship is four years so if a player isn't panning out it's fine to give that player the firm handshake. It should work both ways. If the player is unhappy for whatever reason at the original institution the player should be able to transfer for a fifth year.

Of course we don't have to agree with a player's decision to do so but it should be that player's choice.

BJNavarre

March 18th, 2016 at 10:02 AM ^

The grad transfer rule is probably the best thing the NCAA has done for the players in the last 20 years. So, of course, the coaches hate it.

Beilein's critique is partially accurate. It's not really about kids finding the right grad school, but it does give players who are not getting the type of exposure or playing time at their current school a chance to shine elsewhere. And for many it DOES give them a free year of grad school.

Bluemandew

March 18th, 2016 at 10:07 AM ^

Isn't one of the requirements of the 5th year transfer that you get admitted to a grad program? If the player doesn't take full advantage of that it is on them. I don't see not finishing grad school in one year as a reason to get rid of the transfer rule. If you don't want a player to transfer give them more playing time etc.

bronxblue

March 18th, 2016 at 10:15 AM ^

I honestly don't know if he particlarly cared about the Biefeldt transfer.  He certainly could have kept him around if he had wanted to.  I do wonder if this was just a question that he was asked about and responded appropriately.  

But yeah, if he is bitter about it, it's sort of his own fault.

ijohnb

March 18th, 2016 at 12:48 PM ^

is why I don't think it was completely Beilein's decision.  I am not saying Max is "lying," but he may just be saying the right things.  If Beilein told him, "look, you can stay and will see some time but we have to get some of these other guys on the floor," it may be that Max saw a better fit and a better opportunity elsewhere.  I can say with near certainty that he was featured more at Indiana this year than he would have been if he stayed, not due to ability or lack of it but just due to circumstance.

Rabbit21

March 18th, 2016 at 10:16 AM ^

Personally, I love the grad transfer rule.  It incentivizes guys to get their degree and gives them a little more agency in directing the path of their career.  

I get where Beilein is coming from where a school that invested a ton of time and resources in a guy is suddenly left holding the bag when a guy decides to trade up for another opportunity, but I'n ussually for more freedom than less and letting the system sort itself out.  There're always good and bad parts to it, the grad transfer has much more upside than downside(for players, coaches, and schools) in my opinion.

AVPBCI

March 18th, 2016 at 10:23 AM ^

Should be coiol with grad transfers as long as it is not within the conference unless the team he is on is cool with it.

Blue Durham

March 18th, 2016 at 10:27 AM ^

The only way you have a 5th year grad transfer is if a player gets a red shirt and has done the work to graduate. The school honored its commitment regarding education, and the player fulfilled his end of the bargain, at least education-wise, as well. It is known that the 5th year is optional for the school to offer - so why can't it be optional for the player as well? The school likely took a small risk red-shirting the player by not playing him 1 year, but that is the chance the coach takes, particularly when a 5th year is not guaranteed to the player. Same goes for a player who graduates in 3 years - he should be free to pursue a graduate degree elsewhere without interference. Again, the deal and selling point is a kid is provided a free, undergraduate education and while attending that school, he plays his sport for the school. The education is provided, a degree bestowed; that is it, the obligations of both sides are fulfilled and the deal is complete.

champswest

March 18th, 2016 at 10:28 AM ^

transfer, I would think it would be more about losing Horford than Bielfeldt. We could have used Max this year, but we had plenty of other options. When Horford left, along with Morgan and McGary, we were forced to play freshman Doyle and converted stretch four redshirt freshman Donnal at the five.

Contact Courage

March 18th, 2016 at 10:30 AM ^

I don't think it was about Max. Beilein specifically mentioned that they had a 5th year due to injury. While Max did get hurt and have surgery, he received his 5th year from being redshirted as a freshman. Beilein mentioned transfers from Mid majors. I don't know who he was speaking of specifically, but Zeisloft for Indiana was hurt his first year at Illinois State and redshirted. Played two years and graduated. This is his second year at Indiana and is getting his Masters degree. He is a smart kid.



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ST3

March 18th, 2016 at 11:26 AM ^

We lost all but one of our games by double digits. I don't think a 6'6" center who was a sixth man at IU is going to change the outcome of any of those games. Maybe we get the Maryland game we lost by 4, but that's the game Donnal scored 25 points, so I don't think we win that game either.

BigBlue02

March 18th, 2016 at 11:31 AM ^

It's funny to hear people say this but then ignore not having Caris and Spike. Not saying you did this, but people regularly brush off not having those two senior leaders as if they wouldn't have made a difference and then tak about how awful Beilein is for letting Max walk

ST3

March 18th, 2016 at 12:00 PM ^

Which ones? We lost all but one game by double digits. His VORD (value over Ricky Doyle) was ~ 4 points and 2 rebounds. And how was Beilein supposed to know that Doyle was going to suffer from sleep apnea this season and only get 2 hours of sleep a night (according to the announcers for one of the recent games, can't remember which one,) causing him to regress painfully from his freshman season? Normal improvement from fr to soph year has him bettering Bielfeldt's numbers.

Blue Mike

March 18th, 2016 at 12:00 PM ^

The other part of that argument is that Max was 6th man of the year as a backup 4 mostly, right?  He had a much different role at IU because they have Bryant.  If we had a good big in the middle and Max could have been the 4 he was supposed to be, then maybe he is valuable enough to Beilein that he wants to keep him around.  As an undersized 5, his value is considerably less.

 

Space Coyote

March 18th, 2016 at 10:49 AM ^

But I think his point is one side of the story as well. Yes, if a kid is legit injured, and a school is paying for all his expenses regarding that injury and working with him to get back and he turns out to be good and some bigger school swoops in and takes him, that is unfair to the mid-major schools.

On the flip side, if a kid isn't as good, he's dedicated himself to the program for four years, but you want to make room, you don't need to accept him back for a 5th year. That seems very unfair to the kid. He's fulfilled his obligation to the school by getting a degree.

I tend to lean on the latter of the issue, because I think that's the one that comes more into play. But this isn't a cut and dry thing. Someone/thing is always going to be more on the "unfair" side of things. The question is really about what is more fair for all involved. I tend to think 4 years is promised, 5th year is whatever the player or coach want (if player wants to transfer anywhere, he should be able to; if a coach doesn't want to provide a 5th year, that's a valid option).

Two additional things:

I do think Beilein makes a valid point about looking into the integrity of the student getting graduate degrees. How many are actually getting those degrees. I think a lot of people are going for one year and not really doing anything with it. There still should be some focus on the student-athlete aspect of it. I'm not sure of how much they look into or regulate grad school progress, but I think that is something to look into, that these folks are actually advancing towards a degree.

I think people that graduate in less than 3 years are a gray area. 4 year scholarships should be guarenteed, IMO. That's a 4 year obligation both ways. However, if they've earned a degree, they fulfilled a major part of that obligation. In that way, I'm bit mixed. I'm in favor of guys being able to play immediately if they transfer, because they've graduated. But I think there may be some legitamacy to the program being able to prevent something like inter-conference transfers with immediate eligibility (if they wish to redshirt and then play, that's up to them). I don't have a firm stance yet with this, but it is some gray area. Of course, coaches could always waive the right to put any restrictions on it as well.

StephenRKass

March 18th, 2016 at 10:55 AM ^

No he's not bitter. Perhaps it didn't work out quite the way we wanted. That still doesn't mean that Beilein is bitter about Bielfeldt. (Not Biefeldt, FTR. Try to spell names the right way).

ThadMattasagoblin

March 18th, 2016 at 10:56 AM ^

Bielfeldt started last year. Even if Doyle and Donnal took a major leap which I was skeptical of, you get a good depth guy like Indiana had. Bielfeldt could have been a solid backup at worst for us. I just don't understand why you purposefully cut a guy who played major minutes with no one coming in.

BigBlue02

March 18th, 2016 at 12:09 PM ^

Name a big that has actually reached their junior year that hasn't developed under Beilein. I hear people say he doesn't develop bigs but they never give any examples of actual upperclassmen that don't develop. And you can't really use any of the bigs on the team now as we don't have any have played a full 2 seasons at this point

Richard75

March 18th, 2016 at 12:18 PM ^

How many bigs have we had period?

The issue is more about recruiting and strategy than development. Michigan plays one big at a time and doesn't look to them for offense, so save for one guy it's annually been the least talented spot on the roster.



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umchicago

March 18th, 2016 at 12:41 PM ^

although he was a grad transfer too.  i think morgan is the only BIG that has actually played his final senior game at UM under JB.

cronin-injured, mclimans-grad transfer, smotrycz-transfer, morgan(yes), horford-grad transfer, mcgary-nba, bielfeldt-grad transfer

quite amazing really.  i think we may finally have a couple guys who play as seniors.