OT: Who Should Claim UM Alumni Status
So posts on another thread inspired me to post this as I have wondered about it for a while. To be considere a UM Alumni, do you have to have graduated from UM? I myself had about 50% of my undergraduate credits from UM, but I graduated from another school (grew up in Ann Arbor, had to leave). I have never been comfortable saying I am an alumni from UM. We certainly consider athletes who don't graduate alumni. The UM Alumni Association will take anyone who wants to write a check as a member.
With all sincerity and with all due respect, I don't think 99% of Flint or Dearborn students can comprehend the level at which Ann Arbor operates at. They don't really have the chance to peek over the fence, so they naively call themselves near peers because they can't even imagine how stark the differences are. And very few Flint or Dearborn students have friends at Ann Arbor, as it's generally rare that ambitious students mix with students at directionals. They might visit for football games and think the only difference is a prettier campus. It reminds me of the "Three Miles" episode of This American Life. Students from an inner city high school in the Bronx couldn't even wrap their head around the $48,000 private school that was three miles away...until they actually visited the campus and shadowed the students. It blew their mind how different it is.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/550/three-miles
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/05/04/magazine/tale-of-two-scho…
April 23rd, 2015 at 10:46 PM ^
You sir, are a skulker and a coward of the lowest birth. I challenge thee to a duel.
Hey, I hate it as much as you do, but you have to give them their due: Wisconsin has rocketed up the rankings in the past 20 years, academically. Their student body is, generally speaking, a much higher-achieving student body than it was in 1990 or so. I hate to say it, but we better watch out or they will pass us in the U.S. News undergrad American rankings in about 5-7 years given the trend lines of the two schools' respective rankings.
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:51 PM ^
and yet graduates from all 3 schools end up working as baristas. Look, this seems like a topic that comes up every few years, and its always the same. Maybe the ann arbor degree will open up more doors for you, but don't think for a second that there aren't people with ann arbor degrees who make my fucking coffee
People really love to throw around andecdotal evidence whenever a discussion about academics comes up. "Open up more doors" is the biggest understatement of the century when comparing an Ann Arbor degree to a Flint or Dearborn degree.
a Flint or Dearborn degree. it is a Michigan degree, I am staring at it right now in my gigantic office.
Then go on with your life already. No one believes your secure with your position in life after this tirade.
"position in life?" Seriously?
I am just stating a point, which actually happens to be correct. I guess one could say I am responding to a tirade, or more like a collective tantrum.
Look man, I'm happy that you were successful with a Flint or Dearborn degree. I never said one couldn't be successful with one. But yes, the Ann Arbor degree is different. What the piece of paper in your office says doesn't equate to what the degree means as far as educational experience and in the eyes of employers hiring college grads. The companies that recruit Ann Arbor and the positions available to Ann Arbor students when they graduate are far more expansive and better for overall career advancement than the positions you'd see Flint and Dearborn grads going into.
This isn't really an arguable point, so I'm going to stop now. Again I'm glad you found success with a Flint/Dearborn degree, but that doesn't make it the same as a degree from Michigan-Ann Arbor.
I get it, I did not go to the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor. But you want that to mean that I did not go the University of Michigan. That is objectively and plainly untrue.
You can say that I did not to the University of Michigan Ann Arbor, but you can't say I am not an alum of the University of Michigan. To use your language, I am a University of Michigan alum, and that "is not an arguable point."
September 27th, 2015 at 6:34 PM ^
this is factually untrue, there is only one University of Michigan and it has three campuses. One president, one board of regents, one alumni association and one name on the diplomas. If you want to paint others as ignorant, it helps to actually know what you're talking about... Flint and Dearborn students who want to claim parity or conflate their educational experience with Ann Arbor are wrong to do so, but they are by all rights University of Michigan alumni and it's the university itself who makes it that way (and perpetuates it, by emphasizing brand continuity between the campuses and telling branch campus students that they are "part" of the UM experience).
That's not really true... About 30 years ago, a business degree from UofM Dearborn wasn't even accredited. Last time I heard, a LOT of majors at UofM Flint still aren't.
Both of my parents went to UofM Dearborn; they don't get alumni stuff in the mail from Ann Arbor, they get it from Dearborn. Yes I'm sure you're allowed to join the same alumni association because they will take whoever's money, but there is a clear distinction between the schools.
I think it's kind of shocking how poorly some people view UofM Dearborn on here. I definitely see it as a step below Ann Arbor, but for a lot of programs put it on an equal level as MSU. I'm getting my Master's there right now mostly for convenience to where I work, but I wouldn't go there if I saw it as a glorified community college like some people have been commenting.
If you're not ashamed you went to UofM Dearborn (which you shouldn't be) I don't see a reason why you would say "I'm a UofM alum" and not "I'm a UofM Dearborn alum", which seems to be something a lot of UofM Dearborn people do. If you are for some reason ashamed, then you shouldn't be saying it either, because then you're intentionally trying to deceive people in your mind.
September 27th, 2015 at 6:50 PM ^
I mean, a lot of people who graduate from the branch campuses are proud of their experience. They all know it's not the same thing. Few in the state of Michigan, at least that I know, would claim to have gone to UM full stop, and if they do outside the state it may just be for convenience's sake. The vast majority cheer for UM's athletic teams, a connection the university emphasizes with staff at the branch campuses organizing Go Blue Friday events and the student body given student tickets to Ann Arbor sporting events, so most people walk around campus dressed in plain block M or Michigan branded merchandise. They also don't really make "Michigan-Dearborn alum" merch but they make a fuck ton of stuff that simply says "Michigan alum" and again convenience. I once dated a girl who went to UV-Wise. She didn't claim to go to Virginia on her resumes, she wasn't ashamed of her education. But she did tell people she met in Michigan that she went to the "University of Virginia" and she did have a Virginia t-shirt. Why? Because nobody knows what the fuck UV-Wise is and good luck finding a shirt to represent it. These are multifaceted things. These threads come up every year, and it's always the same: UM branch campus alumni want validation, probably because some MSU or AA alum acquaintance cast scorn on their UM license plate holder or whatever, they come here and find themselves on the defensive from people who think their alma mater is a community college perpetuating fraud. Here's the thing, why can't we just be a family? Why can't otherwise liberal, educationally minded AA grads be happy that their university is providing a place where kids without the same opportunities or grades have the chance to earn an education? It's infuriating to me as an AA graduate who started out in Dearborn.
It may say University of Michigan on the top...but on the bottom, it doesn't say "Dated at Ann Arbor, Michigan this X day of Y year..." like one from U of M Ann Arbor does that I'm looking at.
But nobody is saying they are stupid losers. My friend who goes to Dearborn is just as smart if not smarter than me and a lot of my UM-AA friends, but the two degrees don't carry the same weight.
This^^^. It's all about sample size. On an individual level, you can't make broad statements. But on a school-wide level, you can.
Actually, there are a couple people here who are definitely saying that. But regarding the rest of the stuff, I agree with you. I have a friend who started at U of M - Flint, had to drop out, and then started back at a community college (Flint is definitely NOT a community college). Not saying he's a genius, but that dude definitely would have been fine at Ann Arbor if you're going strictly by intelligence, but his family is totally broke, he had a string of bad luck himself when he was at U of M - Flint (multiple car crashes for one), was the first in his family to go to college, etc. Luckily he got back on his feet and finished a master's at Eastern Michigan. A lot goes into where you get into school and graduate from besides intelligence.
Other random note. It's actually kind of awkward telling people I went to U of M - Flint for undergrad. Outside of Michigan, you can't just call it U of M. Simply saying Michigan implies Ann Arbor. Saying all of The University of Michigan - Flint makes it sound akin to THE Ohio State University. Usually I just say Michigan's Flint campus or something, but I sometimes have to explain when they're a bit confused since most aren't aware Michigan has satellite campuses. It's funny that an out-of-stater on here complained about the perception of Flint vs. AA. It doesn't seem to me that people who aren't from Michigan or didn't go to AA register there's a difference really.
April 23rd, 2015 at 10:51 PM ^
...but you could have the decency to leave a good tip until I sell my screenplay.
I went to Dearborn and my degree says "The University of Michigan" at the top :)
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:13 PM ^
In the fields I know, the profs from the AA campus are at a complete different place than does in Dearborn in terms of research. The AA folks are field-defining. The ones from Dearborn are ok/good, but don't travel in the same circles. This makes a big difference, as the AA students are much more likely to become acquainted with cutting-edge work and top-flight individuals.
Sounds crass, but it's a reality.
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:27 PM ^
mind. Whatever.
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:25 PM ^
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:25 PM ^
I went to Michigan, my sister went to Dearborn. Yes she got into the AA campus but for her own reasons choose Dearborn, She doesn't clam to be an alum here because they are different schools. Example: UCLA and Cal are different schools
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:35 PM ^
No one argues UCLA, Cal, Santa Cruz, Davis, or any of the other UC schools are all the same. I think this only comes up with UM because of sports fandom.
as ucla and uc-berkeley are completely different schools (would be equal to michigan and msu), whereas dearborn is a satellite school of UofM...it doesn't change the fact that the quality of the schools, difficulty of the classes, reputation of the professors is not comparable, but it does make it more of a semantics argument than the UC system has.
All of the UC campuses are under a single set of regents, unlike UM and MSU which have their own regents (or trustees, as MSU calls them).
April 23rd, 2015 at 10:53 PM ^
And it's a bad comparison. All of the UC schools he cites are pretty excellent in different disciplines (Davis: Fermentation Sciences!).
April 23rd, 2015 at 11:36 PM ^
a diploma from UCLA doesn't say University of California with LA in tiny print. It says UCLA.
...but Penn. St. folks who attended satellite campuses do.
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:33 PM ^
Many of the students at both schools can and/or do get admitted to Ann Arbor but attend the regional campuses for reasons unrelated to academics.
I guess this depends on your definition of "many".
In 2013, admitted freshmen at U-M had an ACT score range (25th to 75th percentile) of 28-32. At U-M Dearborn, the ACT range was from 21-26. At U-M Flint,. the range was 18-24.
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:35 PM ^
So 50% at Dearborn had ACTs in the range of 21-23. WOW. That is not a good score. At all. You MIGHT be admitted as an athlete to UM, so don't go spouting about being a Michigan grad.
According to your username, you went to Kentucky. Am I missing something?
24? Did you even study? God damn, I feel worse about my score and not getting money.
Damn dude, your Michigan arrogance is on point. I love it!
i can't tell if he's being serious or just trolling.
I got a 29 on my ACT, a 3.6 in high school and got rejected from UofM. I go to the Flint campus. Not all of us are dimwits. I would say most of the people with low scores, went to community college before transferring to Flint or Dearborn. 60% of Freshmen at Flint graduated with a GPA in high school higher than a 3.0. It's a commuter school. Get off your fucking high horse. My degree will say that I graduated from UofM and I'll call myself a UofM graduate. Fucking sue me.
grades / test scores would have gotten you into A2 not that long ago. Probably around the time that many of the posters here were admitted.
I think they might have tried that, but it's currently a 36 point scale like it always was.
I think the common application has really caused the spike in admissions standards. 20 years ago applying for college was done on paper, and was a huge pain in the ass. Most people only applied to the schools they wanted to go to and thought they had a good shot getting into.
Now, you can apply to 50 schools with the click of a mouse.
What was your GPA at Flint?
Would you have that same GPA at Ann Arbor?
/End.
No one will sue you, they'll just think you're a fraud once they find out. And, depending on your industry (law comes to mind; medicine as well), it might be flat-out illegal and subject you to civil penalties and a loss of your professional license. Thus, you might want to think twice before putting that you are a graduate of the University of Michigan out there on the internet in a professional setting. Because actually, now that I think about it? Yeah, someone may sue you if you're putting it out there that you went to Michigan when in fact you went to Michigan (Flint) and claiming those credentials. I know if you were a lawyer, it would be considered false advertising and a violation of the ABA's Model Rules, thus subjecting you to penalty by your state bar including but not limited to loss of your law license. Especially when you tell them that it wasn't a simple mistake, and that you don't think you did anything wrong.
To follow up, because this is a somewhat serious point... If you were a lawyer and you did what you're advocating with respect to "fudging" (misleading/deceiving) about where you really went to school: a former client could potentially sue you for fraud and ask you to disgorge everything they paid you, plus interest. Fraud is the knowing misstatement of a material fact with the intent to deceive another. That's the definition of what you're doing. And in so doing, you're perpetrating an ongoing fraud on your client, thus breaching your fiduciary duty to the client (and therefore excusing the client from the difficult task of proving actual damages; he just has to prove your breach, which is simple because you not only admit it, you flaunt it). Also, while they're at it, their new lawyer would file papers seeking to have you disciplined by the attorney regulatory commission in your state. At a minimum, you would likely lose your law license for a period of time or be subject to censure and community service.
It's fraud, dude. Fraud.
September 27th, 2015 at 6:59 PM ^
I think that fraud case would get thrown the fuck out when they actually looked into it and discovered that the University of Michigan is a single institution for legal purposes, that all graduates are considered graduates of the same institution, etc. I mean shit man, there is an integrated student ID structure that still lets UM-Flint and Dearborn students park in university lots in Ann Arbor (and used to let them in dorm rooms, until someone figured out that this was not the best idea). They all show up in the same directory. Misrepresentation? Sure. Fraud? No, not technically.
You were pretty close to getting into Ann Arbor, why didn't you just go to State or why aren't you doing a 2+2 program and transferring to Ann Arbor? UM-Flint is a steep drop in atmosphere from Ann Arbor. There are many college options in the middle of Ann Arbor and Flint, which are cost neutral to UM-F (MSU being one).