Second occurance of former players calling fans "muggles"
The short version of the comments from said former players were that people not involved with the program created a mob to oust Brandon in order to "feel better about themselves emotionally". The follow up comment clarified "people not involved" to mean "muggles". Then another former player followed up and said "muggles...smh".
I don't know if it's just me, but this is really disappointing stuff to see. I know as an Alum and fan, this alienates me to an extent. I could be wrong, but I get the impression that these sentiments are shared amongst a lot of players. We want the best for our current athletes and students, so for them to express what I take as disdain for fans baffles me.
I guess I'm just looking for other peoples' take on the situation.
EDIT: to clarify, this is not in reference to the original Mealer tweet. This is a separate occurrence in which the comments were made on FB by a different player, not Elliot.
Edit 2: Title updated. I can see how this would be seen as redundant without reading the entire OP
November 2nd, 2014 at 7:43 AM ^
I can tolerate people disagreeing with my opinion. What Im having an issue with are the players saying we muggles dont have the right to an opinion because we arent players. At what point did I or any ot the other posters who are bothered by these comments and what they represent say "players should sit down and shut up"? At what point did I say they had no right to express their opinion? It's the PLAYERS saying we muggles need to shut up and not speak back - not us.
And on a personal note please don't compare me to Donald Sterling. You've certainly seen enough of my posts throughout the years to know that I am NOT that guy - even if I dont believe players and ex-players are the most qualified individuals to decide who our next AD should be.
November 2nd, 2014 at 7:57 AM ^
Good god, you are taking this realllly personally. It's a slang term athletes use to refer to non-athletes. Whoopde-freaking-do. They're kids making off the cuff remarks, but its the twitter age, so everyone sees it and freaks.
I suggest you relax and stop worrying about it.
November 2nd, 2014 at 8:06 AM ^
You are missing the issue. It's not that athletes call us "muggles" - i could give two shits about that. It's that they honesty believe they are more qualified to decide who the AD should be. That' to me is freaking hillarious.
Forget the term please cause that is NOT my issue. Are you seriously in the camp with the players who believe they should decide who runs the Athletic Department?
November 2nd, 2014 at 10:14 AM ^
Well, I would say they are no less qualified than random message board posters.
Should they decide? No. Should WE decide? NO!
And there is something to say for the fact that student-athletes have more information and know more about Dave than us. I wanted him gone, but I'm not a student-athlete. And, as much as alumni and fans are vital to the program, we must remember that the program is there for the student athletes. Stephen Ross recognizes this, which is why he stayed out of the fray.
I trust Mark Schlissel, to judge his employees properly. I don't presume to know all the answers just because I have a degree or donate money or buy season tickets.
November 2nd, 2014 at 12:37 PM ^
Why would a fan be inherently more qualified to judge the performance of an athletic director than an athlete? I simply don't follow your fundamental point. It's not like our fanbase is filled with people who have advanced degrees in sports administration and understand the inner workings of the department. If anything, the athletes probably have vastly more information than your average fan.
We had good reasons to want DB gone. Mainly, he treated us like poop. But being treated like poop doesn't provide any real expertise on the issue other than "this guy needs to go because he's treating people like poop."
November 2nd, 2014 at 2:07 PM ^
Why would a fan be inherently more qualified to judge the performance of an athletic director than an athlete?
They wouldn't. Just like an athlete wouldn't be inherently more qualified to judge the performance of an athletic director.
Neither has any INHERENT qualifications.
Now - among the couple hundred thousand fans - some DO have advanced degrees in sports management, or are athletic directors, or are involved in athletics administration, or are involved in managing large scale enterprises...
THOSE fans are more qualified to judge the performance of an athletic director than athletes.
...and the average fan is no LESS qualified to judge than the athletes.
November 2nd, 2014 at 12:24 PM ^
November 2nd, 2014 at 2:03 PM ^
Every fanbase has the same lunatic crazies and they're too common to be considered "fringe". What differs from program to program isn't so much the fans as the extent to which the institution lets them dictate policy.
November 2nd, 2014 at 11:02 AM ^
November 2nd, 2014 at 8:07 AM ^
The fact that a mob of anonymous internet "customers" of the company think they should get to choose the CEO is even more bizarre than that the employees and former employees do.
November 2nd, 2014 at 8:18 AM ^
Except being an alum makes that analogy a bit complicated for me as I'm not just a customer, I'm part of the "family"....or at least I thought I was. As much as I supported RRod I'm not going to become an Arizona fan now because I have no ties to the University....unlike here where I have enormous ties through my degree, meeting my wife and making life long friends while there (both athlete and non-athlete).
So when I see someone completely fucking up a place that means as much to me as Michigan, you better believe I will do what I can to make sure my voice is heard.
Not sure that rises to level of "anonymous internet mob" though.
November 2nd, 2014 at 9:31 AM ^
...you have no idea what relationship these anonymous commenters have. If they're students or alums, they have a great concept on which to stand when it comes to choosing the AD. That concept is called "democracy." Moreover, since the university is a public university, the residents of the state own it, and those people should have a say as well.
The new President and interim AD flat out came out and said this athletic department and football program are here for the students first, then alums, then etc. So if anyone should have a say, it's them.
November 2nd, 2014 at 11:40 AM ^
This particular subthread compared the selection of an AD to the selection of a CEO of a nearly-billion-dollar corporation, in an attempt to demonstrate that it was absurd for players and former players (all of whom are students or former students) to think they should have a say, precisely because such a decision is not democratic.
I was pointing out that that particular analogy cuts both ways.
November 2nd, 2014 at 12:45 PM ^
...are certainly people you want to listen to. Comapnies employ a lot of Customer Managment Relationship (CRM) technology to tract the Voice of the Customer (VOC). Blogs and message boards are specifically targeted for the qualitative value.
This is an entertainment business. To strategize operations toward the wishes of the workers over the customers is Marxist, and in this economy, pretty damned stupid.
Of course, this argument between us (and MGrowOld, etc.) is somewhat a waste of time because, again, it is certainly possible (almost required, and definitely targeted by President Schlissel) to get an AD who can serve the interests of the fans and the student-athletes.
November 2nd, 2014 at 1:03 AM ^
November 2nd, 2014 at 7:02 AM ^
I have multiple degrees from UM....Does my opinion matter more than them? ...more than yours? Your comments ooze just as much elitism than the stupid athletes you seem to be alluding too...or any other idiot with a general studies degree.
November 2nd, 2014 at 7:48 AM ^
No, your opinions mean jack, unless you have experience with sports administration. Guess what none of these athletes have experience with sports administration.Neither did Dave Brandon, and you saw how well his business administration translated towards Michigan athletics. At the end of the day end up alienating both alums and students enough, there were protests calling for his head.
A competent sports administrator fosters relationships with both student athletes and "muggles." Dave may have beengreat with student athletes, but his arrogance and sense of entlitlement drove away students and fans.
November 2nd, 2014 at 7:58 AM ^
November 2nd, 2014 at 6:52 PM ^
If you're going to call athletes and General Studies majors idiots you may want to learn how to use too in a sentence.
November 2nd, 2014 at 1:32 AM ^
The players got fooled by David Brandon. He fooled a lot of people. I am sure that when he thinks you have something to offer him, he can be exceedingly ingratiating.
The players are right in that we will never know what it is like to be where they were. I'm sure a portion of them have been manipulated into being pissed at the fans. It isn't really their fault.
Anyway, David Brandon is gone. Those ex-players who really care about the program will support the current players and the new AD and coaching staff. Hopefully, those who don't won't have enough power to screw the next guy.
November 2nd, 2014 at 1:44 AM ^
November 2nd, 2014 at 1:57 AM ^
Are these former players honestly satisfied with the "product" on the field the last decade? Are they satisfied with the lack of attaining any performance-based goals they strived for in their 4-5 years at UM (Player development - FAIL, NFL draft success - FAIL, Rose Bowls- FAIL, winning vs OSU/MSU - FAIL, winning B10/National Titles - FAIL). If they were recruits again, bright eyed 17 year olds, would they choose to go to this version of Michigan knowing what these coaches have been capable of? Because they are players (many of whom are not from this State), they don't seem to understand how humiliating it is to not even be competitive with MSU for almost a decade with no end in sight. We can't even be dominant in a conference laden with awful talent, coaching, and sanction-ridden teams. The traditions that have built this program are made by the coaching greats, top players, and the FANS/alumni. Without any of the three of those, the program will fail. They are absolutely delusional if they think their opinions represent what is best for the University of Michigan.
Yes these guys have given a lot to the program. However, many of the alumni and fans have cared and put a lot into this University and program for decades...before half of these players were even born. I'm sorry but their view is at the least, offensive, and very off-putting.
November 2nd, 2014 at 5:04 AM ^
That Dileo tweet says Hoke and Brandon aren't the problem but failed to elaborate.
If it's not them then who or what is it?
It seems like some of the newer graduates are ok with the way it is now. Seems like they have some hidden reason behind it all.
I can't see these fractures being fixed
November 2nd, 2014 at 6:08 AM ^
Jake Ryan today: “But you’ve been here a long time. Did Brandon have any positive impact on the program?” I asked him.
"Yes, he was a great guy,” Ryan said. “I can’t say anything bad about him.”
Lacrosse coach Friday: @JohnPaulUM: Michigan lacrosse owes so much to Dave Brandon. Everyone associated with our program is thankful for his vision and support for our sport.
Former women's michigan soccer star Haley Kopmeyer Friday: @hkopmeyer: This might come as a shock to some but is more than one sport team at UM. @DaveBrandonAD was an unbelievable leader and force for so many teams. He was committed to every single student-athlete and a leader I learned a great deal from. Thanks for your time, DB.
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November 2nd, 2014 at 7:50 AM ^
November 2nd, 2014 at 9:30 AM ^
November 2nd, 2014 at 1:24 AM ^
People care about Michigan athletics, so much that even when they absolutely suck they still get more coverage than an extremely successful team in East Lansing. If they feel this way, the athletes should NEVER call it The Big House because it's muggles and even others who never even went to the damn school paying to be there.
I really don't believe that many athletes feel that way. I've noticed David Brandon has had a ton of support from the a) super rich donors and b) the successful alums involved in the media. He was probably a huge suck up and catered to their every need. I could definitely see him kind installing a culture among the athletic campus that they were the true and visible ambassadors to the University. That is true to an extent, but if you continually force that view on people it can turn negative fast.
I'm definitely glad he's gone but I do think that some of the facility improvements yet to be completed that he had a huge hand in will help ease the negativity on his short legacy. It is very ironic that all those mentions he made of a full overhaul of the student IM building never panned out....
November 2nd, 2014 at 3:37 AM ^
I guess I'm a fucking muggle. I'll wear that badge proudly
November 2nd, 2014 at 5:07 AM ^
I didn't attend Michigan.
I'm not even a muggle I don't think.
I don't know what I am. This is confusing.
November 2nd, 2014 at 8:46 AM ^
November 2nd, 2014 at 7:31 AM ^
November 2nd, 2014 at 6:03 AM ^
November 2nd, 2014 at 9:45 AM ^
Pithier literary analogies abound. To Kill a Mockingjay perhaps...the mix there would capture the relationships in this case. Muggles = muddled.
November 2nd, 2014 at 6:21 AM ^
November 2nd, 2014 at 6:29 AM ^
Engineering major here. We know who the real wizards are.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C Clarke
November 2nd, 2014 at 6:30 AM ^
November 2nd, 2014 at 7:45 AM ^
Or when they'll be renaming Schembechler Hall and adding a new sign over the entrance to the building by changing the "M" in this picture to a "Block M?"
November 2nd, 2014 at 7:03 AM ^
November 2nd, 2014 at 7:41 AM ^
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November 2nd, 2014 at 7:49 AM ^
November 2nd, 2014 at 9:40 AM ^
...you're not helping.
They were worth a lot b/c they gave their blood, sweat, and tears to represent the university. Okay, so they weren't all-americans or NFL draft picks or B1G champions.
And if they were "worth a shit," that doesn't give them the right to insult their fellow students and alums (or fans), or think their opinions have more weight.
November 2nd, 2014 at 8:07 PM ^
don't need to return.
It's one thing to express why you think the players are wrong or are missing the point. It's another thing entirely to engage in a personal attack.
November 2nd, 2014 at 7:08 AM ^
While former players are a more visible face of the program, I'm not sure why they would be better skilled at doing an anlysis of an AD's actions over the years. Sure, they saw certain things from inside the program that we fans do not, but in terms of analytical skills used to assess a series of actions, why are they any better than those of us with strong ties to the University in doing an anlysis of an AD's performance?
I and my family are the ones paying the ticket prices, buying the five dollar bottles of water and bearing the brunt of public relations nightmares while at the same time watching a product on the field that is near the bottom of a conference that is not very good. At the top of the list of Brandon's misdeeds is the Hoke hire that is turning out the be a very bad decision.
At the same time, while we are happy to see DB leaving, I for one stil respect what he did in terms of facilities development and the solid bottom line he achieved for Michigan athletics.
November 2nd, 2014 at 8:24 AM ^
November 2nd, 2014 at 8:39 AM ^
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November 2nd, 2014 at 7:09 AM ^
November 2nd, 2014 at 7:13 AM ^
I'm a former Lacrosse player (club, before they went varsity) who has had contact over the years with Coach Paul and the athletic department. I agree with a lot of the thoughts on the board about how fan engagement on the football side has been handled. I think their strategy of playing for high margins in "good" years was not smart and a proverbial killing of the golden goose. I also think DB's style in his emails was not flattering, and painted a picture of someone who had a relatively thin skin.
However, I also believe that his efforts to build/support other athletic programs at UM with incredible facilities and resources to hire and retain top coaching talent will make UM compete for the directors cup for the next few decades. If I'm right, DB will leave an important legacy of real success.
Many fans won't care; it's all about FOOTBALL and basketball (with everything else on the very outer reaches of their radar). Who am I to judge that? However, I believe Coach Paul when he talks about how DB has not only created a new legacy in lacrosse but has worked tirelessly to support all athletes at UM.
Thus, I think that the
November 2nd, 2014 at 7:33 AM ^
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November 2nd, 2014 at 7:45 AM ^
Blueball97, I think your point UM's current director's cup performance is exactly why DB was seeking to ramp up revenue. My sense is that the whole billion dollar renovation was designed to make UM (a cold-weather, rust-belt school with climate and demographics acting against it in recruiting) highly competitive in non-revenue sports. Of course we won't know whether these improvements will pay dividends for a half-decade or more, but if a stated goal of a department is to have across the board success, this is a necessary part of playing at a high level.
Your point about the DB misreading the BB and MBB fanbases is correct, and why I think it was necessary for him to go. However, I think that the actual athletes are not as attuned to those issues (seat licenses, etc.), hence that is why they feel alienated from the fans and then write things that further the downward spiral of relations. That was what I was trying to address in my comment, not whether DB should have gone.
November 2nd, 2014 at 8:09 AM ^
Funny thing is we used to be a perennial President's Cup winner (or at least be close to the top rankings) for a long time BEFORE Brandon showed.....we've tanked under his leadership.
So, whatever he was doing, it wasn't working.