Non-MGoBlog Perception of Hoke / Michigan
Reading this blog, one can get a skewed sense of how (1) more casual Michigan fans, and (2) college football fans, generally, perceive our program. Sure, we all know about the great recruiting classes brought in, the youth of the O-Line, the "empty cupboard" that both RR and Hoke inherited, but sometimes we forget that non-MGoBlog fans don't know any of this. I relate below two recent interactions that I have had in the past 24 hours:
1. The first was at a neighborhood party (live in suburban NY), at which there were a good number of college football fans, including 5-6 who root for other Big Ten teams, as well as one other Michigan fan. When the discussion drifted to college football, the comments about Hoke / Michigan were somewhat eye-opening (paraghrased below despite use of quotation marks):
"you guys got smoked again - have you guys beaten anyone good since Lloyd Carr retired"
"saw your coach on sportscenter - he looked totally lost and confused. What's his deal? Why did they hire that guy?"
"I remember when Michigan was really good - they really have sucked for a while now"
"seems like you guys get worse every year."
"can't you guys find a decent coach? Between Richrod and this buffoon, you guys pick shitty coaches."
2. At a deposition yesterday (I am a lawyer), there were four lawyers. Aside from me, there was a Va Tech fan, an ND fan and a Wisconsin fan. At lunch, we were discussing the demise of the Big Ten and the Va Tech fan was going off about how our coach comes off as clueless and over his head. ND guy, who is actually a decent guy, agreed and was saying how shocked he and his Domer friends were at how poorly Michigan played. He was saying that the consensus amongst ND fans was that given our talent, they expected more. They were particularly shocked at how minimally we used to Funch. Wisco guy agreed about Hoke, but chalked up the Michigan decline to the general decline of the conference and RichRod allowing State to raid to in-state talent in from 2008-2010.
Obviously, we here are way more informed about our team than these more casual / non-Michigan fans. But, sometimes it is easy to lose the forest for the trees. So, while all of us can probably recite the depth chart by heart, and know all of the reasons for optimism / pessimism, perhaps we are missing the 10,000 foot view of these fans, which is that Michigan is in a real decline and our coach is perceived to be way over his head.
Going forward, if we don't start to win, I think that Brandon has to take into account the real decline in the perception of Michigan in the cfb world. Even if Hoke is a great guy and the excuses are valid (I know, strong if w/r/t excuses), if we don't start to win this year, Brandon may have to consider making a change to prevent the slide in public perception of Michigan.
September 9th, 2014 at 5:33 PM ^
All you need to know on how we got to this point is contained in Bacons "Three And Out".
Too many factions. The Bo faction, the Carr faction, the anti Miles , the anti Harbughs and theres even a Bump Elliot faction. And remember one thing. And this is directed at the people who cry the Mich is some sort of destination job. Greg Schiano turned Mich down! Yo don't think that all this is known to the small world of college coaching?
You need a wholesale house cleaning starting with hiring a new an AD that'll tell these factions to get on board or get out. Then hire his man and FULLY support him (unlike what happened to RR) to the alums, fans and particullarlly the media.
Mich is in a very similar postion to the late 60's with Bump in charge and the two dominate teams were MSU & OSU. It took an AD like Don Canham to have the balls to hire a coach like BO and then stand beside him. Problem today is Hoke/Brandon aren't Bo/Canham. Heaven help this program.
September 9th, 2014 at 8:12 PM ^
Canham was a guy who knew what an Athletic Department should be because he had been an athlete at UM, and later head track coach at UM until he was appointed AD. Experience as a coach gave him some perspective besides just being good at marketing. And Canham was a great guy who never, ever came off as the arrogant ass that Brandon is.
As for Bo, who could have known that they were getting an all-time great? That, I think, is partly good evaluation by Canham as a fellow coach, added to a boatload of good luck.
I had friends on the football team who hated Bo at first, and some who quit. But they started having fun when Bo showed them how much fun it is to win and kick butt. That'x when they grew attached to him.
People think that Bo was all hard-ass, and he was, to a degree. But he was also funny and sarcastic and very human to his players. He was a special guy.
As for Canham having balls to hire Bo, the fact is that Miami of Ohio was considered "the cradle of coaches," and Bo won with that Miami team. The Miami coach was an obvious choice, not a difficult one, and though the newspapers said, "Bo Who?" the fact is that he was very well known around the country and highly regarded. So it wasn't a matter of balls, it was a matter of having a very good candidate who wanted the job.
It also doesn't take "balls" to stand by a coach who won the way Bo did. Canham would have been a complete idiot to let him go!
September 9th, 2014 at 11:23 PM ^
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September 9th, 2014 at 5:34 PM ^
the non MGoBlog perception of Hoke/Michigan is pretty much in line with the MGoBlog perception of Hoke/Michigan?
September 9th, 2014 at 6:06 PM ^
except substitute "nice guy" for "buffoon." Otherwise, about the same.
September 9th, 2014 at 5:48 PM ^
I am hoping RR was to Ellerbe [transition coaches that sat through some of the worst seasons of modern history] what Hoke is to Amaker [nice guys who stabilized the program but did not excel in much and are not great coaches] what XYZ coach is to Beilein [a friggin bad ass who returns UM to national prominence].
Let me hope.
September 9th, 2014 at 6:13 PM ^
Since when do informed people care what uninformed people think?
Also if Schlissel is so anti-sports do we really want him firing Brandon and replacing him with someone he can control who will completely kill all of our sports?
September 9th, 2014 at 7:08 PM ^
I kid, I kid. But seriously, since every election day.
Also whenever we regular punt instead of spread punt.
September 9th, 2014 at 6:22 PM ^
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September 9th, 2014 at 6:28 PM ^
If Hoke's tenure ends without improvement from here I think that'll be his value-added to the program; not great but non-trivial.
This would then allow the AD (hopefully not brandon) to hire the best outside candidate.
September 9th, 2014 at 6:46 PM ^
I've been thinking this for a while. Maybe Brandon never intended Hoke the be "the guy" per se. I mean, he hoped he would be, but what he was going for with the hire was a guy that could sell the university, repesent it well, and re-open the in-state and Ohio recruiting pipelines. Then, once the cupboard was refilled with quality players, and there were no glaring deficiencies like those that existed in our last couple of transitions, Brandon would go out and find himself the best young up-and-coming coach he could find.
Seems like a classic "10 year plan" that a CEO business guy might enact when he analyzed the situation. Now, whether Hoke is aware that that is what he is (if that is, in fact, the case), is a different discussion all together. It's all conjecture anyway, but interesting conjecture nonetheless.
Who knows, maybe Harbaugh told Brandon that he wanted to win a Super Bowl first, that the roster was in shambles, and that he wasn't going to take a "rebuild" project on just now -- but, if hired a guy like Hoke, and in a few years the pipeline was back in tact, he'd come back to AA and take the job.
I dunno though, kind of a stretch maybe.
September 9th, 2014 at 7:21 PM ^
September 10th, 2014 at 10:22 PM ^
I've been thinking about this for, like, 30 seconds.
What Harbaugh really wants (in any job) is control. Tell him he can come in as HC... and AD - and draw both salaries.
Get some vice AD type to do all the actual *work* - but Harbaugh has the final word.
Two birds, one stone, all that.
Cheers.
September 9th, 2014 at 8:18 PM ^
Dream on. Brandon is far too much of an arrogant dick to do anything that isn't likely to bring immediate acclaim and attention to himself. Hoke may or may not have been a mistake, but there was certainly no ten-year plan involved.
September 9th, 2014 at 6:48 PM ^
Hire him now, he said on Cowherd that he would definately enertain a Michigan coaching offer.
September 9th, 2014 at 8:37 PM ^
Shirley, you can't be serious.
Oh, new account... so you probably are serious.
September 9th, 2014 at 9:22 PM ^
September 9th, 2014 at 10:44 PM ^
Your right, I would rather keep coach Hoke cuz hes a nice guy, who needs to win league championships and national titles. Not Michigan. Was he the coah that ushered in a decade of our misery and mediocracy? Yes, so who better to return the favor to our rivals?
September 10th, 2014 at 12:35 AM ^
September 9th, 2014 at 7:17 PM ^
I can tell you from an OSU fan standpoint it's just sad, really. I remember seeing Hoke wearing a wristband at SDSU games on the sideline, a wristband, you know what you give young QBs who haven't grasped the playbook yet. We've both shit the bed since 2006, only I think outsiders have a little more faith in Urban than they do Hoke to turn it around, IMO.
September 9th, 2014 at 8:15 PM ^
There should be a lot more faith in Urban, he's a proven, great coach, period. Hoke, on the other hand has proven only that he could do well with Rich Rod's players in a year when OSU was down.
The whole thing is so depressing, please hand me a kleenex.
September 10th, 2014 at 1:24 AM ^
lulz at Ohio St. shitting the bed. You guys have done nothing remotely close to shitting the bed.
September 10th, 2014 at 1:06 PM ^
...that these folks thought they shat the bed with John Cooper because he couldn't beat Michigan. He could recruit like hell and single-handedly populate the NFL with his players (even bag a Rose Bowl win and a Heisman Trophy winner), and he pretty much owned the rest of the Big Ten, but it was because of Coop that Carr's record against OSU was as good as it was.
September 9th, 2014 at 7:20 PM ^
As long as he wins 8 games and doesn't get worse as the season goes on and is competitive with MSU and OSU he should get one more year at which point 9 wins and a split of MSU/OSU should be required going forward and particularly beating OSU at least once every 3 years. I don't want to jump ship over one game or oversimplify it, but I'm not ready to call for anyone's head over one game. He still has time, this was just a bad game, but more urgency is needed.
September 9th, 2014 at 7:45 PM ^
September 9th, 2014 at 8:44 PM ^
Also, 3 coaching changes in 8 years is the exact opposite of stability and rarely works out well.
If hoke wins 8 and the team improves throughout the season, then I feel that another year is warranted. Anything less and he should go.
September 9th, 2014 at 9:10 PM ^
michgoblue, I thought this little part marred an otherwise interesting post:
".... RichRod allowing State to raid to in-state talent in from 2008-2010 ...."
Did the Wiscy guy *really* say that? Hard to believe someone across the lake would have knowledge at that level of detail, especially because ...
This is a silly myth that has been refuted many times on this blog. Pretty everyone nowadays knows that Dantonio has gotten it done with Midwestern 3-star run-off. There are very few instances of impact (as in, future) players picking MSU over UMich. One of many examples is the 2-star Georgian Darqueeze Dennard.
September 9th, 2014 at 10:06 PM ^
The sad thing is, the "we all want to win now" meme is now four years old. When exactly is now?
September 10th, 2014 at 6:59 AM ^
Does that mean win 9 games, 10, 11, go undefeated? What does "win" mean? I think before the season started most thought all of our rivals were better teams on paper than UM. So, to win 8-9 games was pretty much expected as being successful this season. Just becasue we dropped one, that ahead of time was kinda expected, shouldn't mean that much IMO. My expectation is to win 8-9 this year, and 9+ going forward assuming competitiveness with our rivals. UM has not won 10+ games with the kind of regularity that say OSU has the past decade, since the days of Bo. If anyone is expecting that I think they are setting themselves up for disapointment.
September 9th, 2014 at 9:50 PM ^
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September 10th, 2014 at 7:04 AM ^
I hear ya on the MSU/OSU front and agree. But, there aren't many experts that picked UM on paper to win 9 games coming into this season, and certainly would not chose 9 wins as the basement requirement. I think you're asking for the best case as the basement. Most figured this was an 8-win team. So, if they do what they should based on the schedule, talent, and experience, it's hard to call that disapointing.
September 9th, 2014 at 10:28 PM ^
September 10th, 2014 at 7:25 AM ^
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September 9th, 2014 at 10:38 PM ^
Hoke seems like a great guy to drink beer with - but not as a Mich coach.
He has been outcoached ...& has made to many amateur hour mistakes in big games.
I still can't believe he wont put on a headset. I would want all the info possible during a game.
I can't believe people want Tressel. Fuck having a former Buckeye as our coach!!!
September 9th, 2014 at 11:19 PM ^
If he's learned from his mistakes, I don't care. If he consistently beats OSU I'm fine.
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September 9th, 2014 at 10:44 PM ^
September 9th, 2014 at 11:52 PM ^
September 10th, 2014 at 3:14 AM ^
September 10th, 2014 at 9:31 AM ^
And the perception of Michigan is simple: "they suck because they play football in the North." I'm 23 and kids my age who grew up in the TN remember three things about Michigan.
1.) Charles Woodson "stole" Peyton Manning's Heisman which supplanted the hatred.
2.) Tennessee crushing Michigan in 2001.
3.) Michigan losing to Appalachian State.
Those three things make Michigan one of the most hated and "overrated year in and year out" teams in the country to southernors. Nine out of ten SEC fans hate Michigan, Ohio State, and Notre Dame and think all three are overrated and would finish 10th, 11, and 12th every year in their conference.
Admittedly, none of the three helped their causes getting blown out by Mississippi State, Florida, LSU, Alabama and Alabama again since 2006,
September 10th, 2014 at 11:34 AM ^
And it happened a few years ago.
September 15th, 2014 at 12:35 AM ^
September 10th, 2014 at 12:19 PM ^
Not that it's a huge sample of the fan base, but look at the comments on the recent post from Michigan Football on Facebook (Not sure if this will work)
https://www.facebook.com/michiganfball/photos/a.160575863624.144696.155…
Easily 80% of them are people talking about wanting Hoke gone. I'd say that a good majority of those people aren't on here (or at least on here bitching).
Bein in SEC country (Atlanta) I have grown numb to the comments about Michigan living in the past and not accepting that it's a sub par team that hired a bafoon for a coach. Granted I've also grown numb to the ball gargling that happens around the SEC so there is an upside to all of that.
September 10th, 2014 at 2:29 PM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 1:41 AM ^
The perception of Brady Hoke outside of Michigan fans and supporters is the same as the entry on Earth that can be found in the "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
Brady Hoke- Mostly harmless.