OT: Who is your vote for most overrated or underrated/underappreciated athlete in any sport?
Simple question...someone who is widely praised but you feel is probably a bit overhyped.
Aside from OSU QBs, there are a number of NFL HOFers that I think are questionable as HOFers.
Kurt Warner..only played 3 complete seasons, and if you take away 99 and 01, he's about a .500 qb with no significant accomplishments. Now granted...those were 2 amazing seasons with one of the most prolific offensive minds/skill talent in the game. But you could make an argument that he wasn't the one who elevated them to greatness. And even still, that HOF resume seems a little thin.
Who's your pick?
April 20th, 2023 at 12:08 PM ^
Shavodrick Beaver, criminally underrated….
Now there's a blast from the past.
Nice Beaver!
April 20th, 2023 at 12:15 PM ^
Well, since it’s the Stanley Cup Playoffs I’ll say
overrated: Grant Fuhr
underrated: Chris Osgood. Beat out a unanimous top 5 goalie of all time, Dominik Hasek, for the starting spot and won 3 cups with the Red Wings
also underrated: Petit-Frere v Hutch, Haskins v the entire AN osu defense
I will die on the hill that Osgood deserves the Hall of Fame, and was absolutely robbed of a Vezina.
The first name that came to mind was Osgood. His resume is great, and I don't want to hear about the team in front of him. He still had to stop the puck, and he didn't just face 10 shots a game. Every great goalie had to have a pretty good team to win. The Wings win the cup in 2009, I think he's in the HOF. He was stellar that year, especially in the playoffs. Hall of famer in my book.
April 20th, 2023 at 10:20 PM ^
Osgood is a good thought. The first one on the criminally underrated that came to my mind was Lou Whitaker. Absolutely belongs in the HOF.
April 22nd, 2023 at 11:26 AM ^
If the, "team in front of him," argument applies to Ozzie, it applies doubly so to Fuhr and the machine in front of him during his Cup wins.
Ozzie absolutely should be in.
I came here to say Ozzie.
There are only 12 goalies with more wins than him all time.
Brodeur, Roy, Fleury, Luongo, Belfour, Lundqvist, Joseph, Sawchuk, Plante, Esposito, Hall, Fuhr
6 of those 12 have multiple Stanley Cups
Of the 5 eligible goalies (Fleury is still active) with 300 wins and mulitple stanley cup championships only Ozzie isn't in the hall.
+1 to this.
400 wins, 3 Stanley Cups (starter for 2), scored a goal, threw Patrick Roy on his ass... put him in the HHOF already.
Had the Wings won that game 7 in 2009, Osgood would have won the Conn Smythe. That seems to be the thing people point to as to why he isn't in the HHOF, no individual awards thus never the best goalie in any single year of his career. Is it his fault that his career overlapped with arguably 3 of the top 5 greatest NHL goalies in Roy, Hasek and Brodeur? The other bullshit opinion, and the reason he was robbed of the Vezina in 1996, was his success was due to how good the Red Wings were... yet somehow that criticism never seems to levied against Fuhr.
An aside but worth mentioning, Osgood is a very solid analyst for wings broadcasts. Jimmy Howard... nice guy, but he doesn't need to be in front of the camera next year.
My Osgood cool story bro.
I was in Traverse City during Wings training camp for work and golf. All the Wings play at the Bear and they do a charity outing.
They have a roped off section for the Wings at Dillingers Pub. I had gotten to know Maltby through a mutual friend and we were hanging out a Dillingers. The number of ladies congregating was impressive.
So Maltby and Osgood wanted to go to U&I lounge with a group of my friends and we didn’t have space so they rode in my trunk (not closed) down the alley way. We get to U&I and Ozzy challenges me to Golden Tee, which I was pretty good at, for a beer. He proceeds to birdie every single hole and destroy me. After about the 4th birdie he says, “I have one of these in my basement”
I suppose I underrated his Golden Tee ability. Probably the most enjoyable beer I ever lost.
But U&I is a block from Dillingers and has no parking. Why drive? Let alone ride in a trunk...
I had parked in the alley next to Union Station and wasn’t sure if I might get a parking ticket.
Mike Vernon threw Roy on his ass.
April 24th, 2023 at 12:26 PM ^
Osgood put Roy on his ass as well.
overrated: Grant Fuhr
Fuhr is the outlier here.
To start hockey is really reluctant to put goalies in their hall, which makes Furh's inclution even worse.
There has probably been a dozen better goaltenders over the past forty tears than Fuhr who just didn't have the benefit of playing for one of the NHL's most legendary juggernauts
And that's the whole argument for Fuhr - 4 cups with a super stacked Oilers team with Gretzky.
He had a lot of wins but his save percentage and goals against average were never more than average.
Besides Osgood, I'd put in Mike Veron and Tom Barrasso before Furh.
when Osgood was on... he was the man
April 20th, 2023 at 12:15 PM ^
Maybe look up Warner’s career before putting him in the OP.
He had three great seasons with the Rams, not two, including what was until 2008 the second-highest yardage season ever. That offense changed the way football is played.
Then he came back with the Cardinals, was elite again, and came within a hair’s breadth of winning another Super Bowl.
It’s still a relatively short HOF career sample, but you rather significantly mischaracterize it. It’s not out of range with other short-sample HOF careers like Gale Sayers.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:35 PM ^
I pretty much agree with this take. I would add that one of the reasons that Warner had a relatively short career was because it started so late; he was an undrafted free agent who didn't catch on with the Packers and wound up playing Arena football. He was 27 by the time he made his first regular season NFL roster with the Rams.
After he was cut by the Packers, he worked as a bagger at a supermarket in Iowa making $5.50 an hour before he was picked up by the Rams. His story is pretty amazing.
Absolutely-his story became a film.
April 21st, 2023 at 10:13 AM ^
Yeah, but that film was pretty terrible.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:35 PM ^
Beat me to it. I was just going to mention Gale Sayers as a HOF with a relatively short career
April 20th, 2023 at 12:52 PM ^
I'm familiar with Warner, I watched him play...he was good, but I really wonder what's the minimum standard for HOF inclusion. Can you have 2 great seasons during a 10 year career? 3? Does a great individual season leading a 9-7 team count towards that? Or did you mean his 21 td-18 INT season as his third great year with the Rams?
Does a great individual season leading a 9-7 team count towards that?
It absolutely counts. The HoF is an individual honor, there's no reason why a guy should be punished for being on a bad team. Do you not think Woodson deserves to be in the HoF? Because I'm pretty sure the teams he was on didn't make many playoffs...
Your larger post goes to the kind of baseline question of dominance vs. longevity, and what should qualify for the HoF. And it's a tough question. I may be in the minority, but I was actually pretty surprised that Megatron got in. Yes, he was the undisputed best WR in the NFL for a few years, but I didn't think he had enough years of that dominance to be able to overcome a shorter career. Glad he did, but didn't see it coming...
Woodson played in the playoffs eight different times, three times with Oakland and five times with Green Bay (including their last Super Bowl win).
Absolutely agree that the quality of a team should have no bearing on whether or not a player is in the Hall of Fame. A quick google search shows that guys like Dick Butkus and Joe Thomas are in the Hall of Fame but never made it to the playoffs; that's a reflection on the shitty teams they played for, not on their abilities.
Not sure what originally drives your unfair assessment of Warner, but you are misrepresenting his stats here with what appears to be some level of intention.
A great individual season leading a 9-7 team
That made the Super Bowl and nearly won with Warner posting, as listed elsewhere in this thread, one of the great passing performances in SB history?
Or did you mean his 21 td-18 INT season as his third great year with the Rams?
The 2000 season, the middle of the three great Rams years. A high INT total (not out of character, not unlike contemporary Brett Favre) but his 311.7 yards per game average was the fourth highest ever at the time (exceeded once each by Dan Fouts, Dan Marino, and Warren Moon) and his 67.7% completion rate was way higher than what most elite QBs produced at the time (Brett Favre won 3 straight MVPs in the mid-90s throwing 59.3, 59.9, and a career-best 63.0%; Dan Marino and John Elway never hit 64% in any individual season) while throwing downfield significantly more than the high-percentage West Coast offenses would ever consider.
He was doing stuff that's still rare and was basically unheard of at the time.
Excellent point. I'll nominate Gale Sayers for most over-rated. If it wasn't for James Caan's brilliant performance, Sayers probably would have been a footnote.
/ducks
April 20th, 2023 at 12:16 PM ^
Overrated: Draymond
Underrated: TWill
This must be sarcasm. TWill has played 3 years, averaging 4.5 pts per game, and largely starts. His rebounding numbers are solid for a small forward's body, I suppose. He had 1 season of shooting 45% on all FG and 38% from 3, but the other two seasons show bad shooting stats. He brings nothing else to the table. I believe the fact that he's a scholarship player on a Big 10 teams squarely lands him in the Overrated category.
I suppose it shows the sorry state of Michigan's basketball program if starter's minutes are going to a guy who is an okay rebounder and nothing else.
When I saw the subject of this thread, my immediate thought for underrated/underappreciated was actually Draymond. I know it drives us crazy because he's an MSU guy, but just keep your eyes on Draymond while he's on the floor. Whether he has the ball or not, he's constantly setting up his teammates for easy buckets or stymieing opponent plays on defense. My only criticism of Draymond is that he clearly stopped working on his shot, which has allowed opponents to sag off of him when he's out by the 3-point line.
TWill is a high energy bench guy. The fact that we had to start him pretty much sums up everything that happened to us this season. He just doesn't have the reaction time and athletic talent to be a starter for us.
Definitely agree that “triple single” is at the top of the overrated list. That dude never deserved a max contract and now gs is suffering for it.
twill is a future hall of gamer, just no one knows it yet. If he stopped playing today, would we retire his number? I think so…
This guy gets it
April 20th, 2023 at 12:18 PM ^
"if you take away 99 and 01" is very similar to OSU's "if we just take away all your touchdowns" argument.
Overrated: Tim Tebow
April 20th, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^
Have to agree with Tim Tebow. If he had been smart he would’ve changed positions. Could’ve had an HOF career as a TE. But he wanted to play QB in the NFL and he sucked at it
April 20th, 2023 at 12:49 PM ^
Not sure I really agree with Tebow. Yes, he sucked in the NFL, it’s well documented. I don’t really hear much people spouting how great he was with the Broncos. But college Tebow? Phenomenal. At minimum, I’d say he would have to be a top 15 player in modern era. He exuded versatility, resilience and a leadership that cannot be ignored.
We will have to agree to disagree. Tebow was a product of the Urban Meyer system. He put up some great numbers in that system and was surrounded by elite talent. He was not the best player on his own team but he did receive the most hype, mostly because his position and his very public beliefs.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:48 PM ^
Hard to argue against HOF for a 2x league MVP and Super Bowl champion.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:18 PM ^
I'm a Minnesota sports fan by heredity and a Seattle-area fan by birth, so some small market legends would make my list.
Kirby Puckett is under appreciated in my opinion. Of course he's known as an outstanding player, but having watched a lot of his very long prime period, he was probably one of the 4 or 5 greatest baseball players of the last 40 years outside of the steroid-boom guys (Bonds, McGwire, Clemons, Sosa, a few others). He was not just good, he carried two Twins teams to World Series wins. And yet, even in his time, he was passed over for AL MVP by Dennis Eckersley in I think 1988 for no good reason (a relief pitcher is not a league MVP, no matter how awesome he was).
Steve Largent. Hall of Fame wide receiver, amazing player in his day. He was overshadowed in his time, and rightfully so to a point, by Jerry Rice. But I'll bet more than half of football fans today don't even know his name.
April 20th, 2023 at 10:41 PM ^
Who could possibly forget failed gubernatorial candidate Steve Largent?
April 20th, 2023 at 12:22 PM ^
Underrated- HD pre-portal
Overrated- HD immediately upon entering portal
April 20th, 2023 at 12:22 PM ^
Emmitt Smith. Dude ran behind all pro lines almost every year while Barry had to overcome the Lions. Barry was better by far and even Emmitt admitted as much.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:27 PM ^
To piggyback off this Troy Aikman was pretty overrated as well. Massive O-Line and he had weapons.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:31 PM ^
In light of the Cowboys-Vikings trade, Herschel Walker was highly overrated. Who would you rather have, a serviceable Emmit Smith and Troy Aikmen along with the one of the best O-lines ever, or Herschel Walker?
Also, Herschel is underrated as a dumbass.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:35 PM ^
I'll say the same thing about Aikman as Smith and Irvin too. Those guys were some of the most focused on winning guys I've seen play on the same team at the same time.
Irvin was probably the most talented of the three, but all of them were Harbaugh+ insane level of competitors.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:40 PM ^
When it comes to over rated QBs Terry Bradshaw tops the list. The teams he played on were loaded at every offensive position. He was an average QB with all the talent in the world around him and it made him look good. I could’ve QBd those teams to Super Bowl wins
I get your point. He did play on remarkable teams. He may be overrated. The PIT, SF and Cowboy dynasties all were amazing teams. Montana was not overrated IMO. I think Aikman is the most overrated and possibly Bradshaw was, but Bradshaw was damn good in four Super Bowls. He also played in a brutal era for QB protection.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:31 PM ^
Agreed, although Emmitt Smith would knife you to get a yard on a football field, and not even feel bad about it. I've always admired the drive a lot of the top athletes have, even if I wouldn't want to be on the other side of it.
If Sanders had had that drive he would have gained 3,000 yards in a season.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:33 PM ^
Sanders dodged more tackles on one play before hitting the line of scrimmage than Emmitt Smith did in an enitre season. Barry Sanders was the best ever and he is still highly underrated.