OT - Send the Kids to School
If you are in the same boat as me, your kids are home for an eight time since January 1. 8 "snow days" in a little over a month. This is now completely ridiculous. I don't care if there is ice on "back roads." I don't care if frostbite can occur on "exposed skin." I don't care if there are "boil problems." I really don't even care if there is electricity.
Is the standard for closing school "the existence of winter condition somewhere at some point, kind of" now? Is that what we are rolling with?
I here you XM, I need to sit with my family in front of the fire place and read, and read, and read, until everybody falls into a peaceful slumber after a round of "I love yous." I get it. And I do love them. But I have two kids who complained this morning about another snow day. The kids complained about not having school.
Send these kids back to school. Enough already.
/End rant
/Until the next "snow day"
February 7th, 2019 at 7:07 PM ^
I agree apathy plays a role. The question is why are students apathetic regarding topics they know have a direct impact on their lives? I can't speak for other content areas. I teach physical education. There is tons of evidence that points to physical activity and exercise as a preventative measure for just about every major disease. You can tell them about the why it's important until you're blue in the face, but if it's hard many aren't willing to do it. I believe one of the reasons for this is the lack of time spent with parents getting outside the home being physically active.
February 7th, 2019 at 9:17 AM ^
Welcome to the world of Social Emotional Learning!
You name it, we've got the curriculum for it!
February 7th, 2019 at 8:08 AM ^
When I was a boy...
February 7th, 2019 at 8:25 AM ^
That call is made by the superintendents based on safety. A 1% chance of losing a kid to freezing or a bus crash isn't worth the risk.
When we were kids they made that decision in the relative dark. In the mid 90s my dad started a conference call with all the metro Detroit supers and his meteorologist (who tells corn growers if their fields will get hit) to make a more informed decision. My brother hosts this call these days, and he is a raging Sparty because he didn't get into Michigan, so all these recent closings are probably because he's mad about losing to Purdue, IU and UI, and not the safety concerns over big ol orange buses full of kids on ice-slicked side roads.
February 7th, 2019 at 11:20 AM ^
Thanks for attempting to lighten up this thread but can someone just put it out of its misery? Like almost everyone here I wasn't in the best mood this morning either with no power and no school but after reading some of these comments I think I'd prefer to spend more time with my ex-wife's family.
February 7th, 2019 at 8:25 AM ^
Our grandkids have been in the same boat for the past two weeks - exactly 1/2 day spent in school because of excessive snow, cold, ice or no electricity. I don’t remember a time like this ever.
Glad we’ve been down here on Marco Island the past week. It was brutal yesterday - 81 with a windchill of 79. Today looks to be the same. 8~)
February 7th, 2019 at 8:28 AM ^
dear john,
i understand your dismay at weak-kneed, lilly-livered administrators cancelling school yet again. but flip the presuppositions a little: why would you give the privilege of educating your two fantastic children to strangers, no matter how well-intentioned they may be? savor it.
as to staying home, word one is: outside! get them out there and sled, run, throw snow balls, take them somewhere fun, live a little! and yes, when they're tired come back inside and read by the fire. or tell stories, including letting them tell oodles of stories about whatever stuff is on their mind. practice 'the victors' with them, teach them on their school subjects. teach them how to play things like chess and checkers (age appropriate, i think yours are a bit younger), how to build something, how to use a hammer and a nail, a screwdriver, chop wood, i could keep going on and on but i have to go to my own work now. bottom line is that cancellation is a cause for celebration, not frustration.
have a great day and enjoy the blessings of your two children.
EDIT: another example is that the avatar twins there on the left were only too happy to show me the snow cave they had created right next to the barn last night. more specifically, they had followed my directions that i had casually mentioned to them last year when they had built one about how the entry should look and the up tilt in the tunnel and floor to preserve heat in a true survival situation. took them hours. they learned. they were pretty pumped about it. win-win.
February 7th, 2019 at 8:41 AM ^
I would take them to sled or throw snow balls but there is NO SNOW. It has just been rain since yesterday at noon.
Regarding my kids going to school, I don't know, I guess it is just that I went to school, all my friends went to school, literally like 99.999% of all kids I know go to school, so I guess I was just "following the crowd at chow time." It was not really something that I thought about. Perhaps I should have.
In the last week, I have gone sledding, made a snow man, gone to the arcade, shoveled snow with both kids, gone to two movies, taken my older son to the gym twice, taken my younger kid to the mall twice, went to a basketball game, made posters, made a photo album, gone swimming twice, and drove to Frankenmuth literally just for the drive. I'm out of stuff, XM.
February 7th, 2019 at 9:15 AM ^
come visit and my kids will keep your kids way, way busy. sports is the big hook for us and they have many friends in and out of school because of that. faith is important to some also, as are the many homeschooling groups in your area. make economic choices that allow for less work for at least one of you - hard to do but not impossible. the education is superior but i'll spare you the humblebrag stuff.
here are some homeschoolers you might recognize...
February 7th, 2019 at 9:32 AM ^
My oldest son has a real aversion to sports. I know that it is a big hook for a lot of families. I grew up on sports, nearly all my friendships resulted from sports. It is hard to parent a son who is aggressively disinterested in them. It is pretty isolating, actually.
February 7th, 2019 at 10:01 AM ^
Is the aversion to competition or physical activity? If the answer isn't both, there are opportunities for involvement in things that are sports-adjacent that would end the isolation. For example, karate lessons are not competitive and robotics competitions are not physically demanding.
February 7th, 2019 at 9:23 AM ^
I don't see any books on that list.
I recommend reading them War and Peace, and then using little plastic army men for battle reenactments, a la Napoleon in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.
Ziggy Piggy!
February 7th, 2019 at 9:43 AM ^
Well, well, The pontificating pretend to be cool upper peninsula guy seems to tell people he's better at educating his children than people who train themselves for it, go to college for it, practice their profession, undergo rigorous professional development, testing, and then spend 8 hours a day with children because they, well, care about them, and in ALOT of cases, more than their own parents.
Tell ya what asshole: If your kidneys start failing, have your wife operate on them, not some poor shlub who went to medical school and does it for a living. Or call a plumber to check them out.
You home school assholes are egotistical beyond belief, and it's why a ton of your kids end up with the social sklls of a message board guy when they grow up.
February 7th, 2019 at 10:01 AM ^
I don't homeschool my kids because I'm smarter or better than anyone else.
I homeschool my kids so that they don't have to spend a lot of time with bigoted jerks like you.
Still love the pic.
February 7th, 2019 at 7:27 PM ^
Thanks for proving why I went back to school after my PhD to get my teaching certification, to ensure the next gen respects evidence and reasoning. Public education has been our nation’s greatest invention.
February 7th, 2019 at 10:27 AM ^
fark, try the decaf next time. well done comments, particularly the name calling.
i'm not saying that schooling outside the house has no place, we co-op with the local gov't school when the kids get older and it has worked out well. i would add that the single largest group of homeschoolers are....public school teachers. i like and respect most of the people i know who are teachers, i think their job is difficult. its much easier in a home setting and the results are, on the whole, superior. from there we send kids to college. in fact, i am (kiddingly) telling them that one of them needs to go to medical school so that i and mgowife can be hypochondriacs when we get older.
beyond that, i wouldn't want to give 15,000-20,000 of the most precious hours of my kids' lives to strangers. and as to my kids, i suggest you ask the many on this blog who have met them about their social skills. they are invariably the captains of their gov't school sports teams, win the character/coaches awards, yada yada.
and let me guess, you've never homeschooled and have no idea about it beyond your anger, right?
February 7th, 2019 at 10:42 AM ^
Got a question for you, oh wise one...How many hours do you spend on this blog that you could be spending with your kids? Cause it seems like a lot.
People get tired of your shtick because you sound like a pompous, blowhard know-it-all 90% of the time. Maybe that’s not your intention, but that is in fact how you come off.
So maybe take a break from the blog and go spend some more precious hours with your dear perfect little ones. We’d all be better off.
February 7th, 2019 at 12:23 PM ^
Are you saying public school teachers are the largest group of home schoolers? Do these public school teachers actually stay home and teach their children or do they send them to another "home school"?
February 7th, 2019 at 1:34 PM ^
their spouse does the work. also, when the kids get older, the older kids help the youngers and the olders can do much on their own. you might be surprised how much they like school - the exact opposite of me at those ages.
in my experience the olders end up taking college courses at the local JC when they get driving age. seems to work out pretty well. has for our family.
February 8th, 2019 at 9:10 AM ^
He is talking out of his ass. I have been in education for over 14 years (teaching at the college level and secondary level) and have yet to meet a single one of my colleagues home schooling their kids. In fact, educators are the single biggest proponent of public education. We have several offspring of my colleagues at my school.
February 8th, 2019 at 10:24 AM ^
your totally uncalled for behavior right here would/is a great reason to avoid public schools - people with your level of close-mindedness and viciousness are there.
it will probably make you even madder when i tell you one of our closest friends is a public school teacher who homeschools his children. all 12 of them, though of course some are married and on their own.
more on your other post, but seriously, examine your own behavior here and don't be surprised that parents like me are not willing to trust their children to people like you.
February 8th, 2019 at 11:04 AM ^
rrrriiigggghhhhtttt...I guess I will just have to take your word for it. FYI, you don't me any madder than a the temperature dropping in me classroom. I couldn't care less about you.
February 7th, 2019 at 12:32 PM ^
They're not strangers if you make the effort to get to know them.
February 7th, 2019 at 10:51 AM ^
Fark - you should change your name to Mrs. Massengill.
February 7th, 2019 at 10:58 AM ^
Both my parents are/were teachers and so were most of their friends, a few of my aunts and various friends from school and college became teachers. What I am saying is that Ive had more teacher exposure in my life than most people, and somehow your hagiographic description of teachers does not match reality very much at all.
They are mostly just regular folks doing a job. Some are good at it, some limited in their effectiveness by ability or personality, others are just mailing it in. Same as every other job out there.
I am against home schooling though because the social dynamics of K12 education are preparing kids for adult life. Teachers can occasionally play the role of helpful guides, but more often are simply early enforcers of rules and regulation and thus a mix of warden and supervisor. I dont mean that in as bad a way as it sounds. You need this experience to make sense of how life works as an adult.
February 7th, 2019 at 11:06 AM ^
If by "against" you mean, "I won't be doing it with my kids and if someone asks that's the advice I would give them," good for you! Having a well-formed opinion is good. If by "against" you mean, "I think it's unquestionably bad" and/or "It shouldn't be permitted," you're wrong. I won't presume to think I know where you're coming from there.
But I can tell you this: Kids don't "need" the experience of exchanging brutal verbal abuse and bullying, or the experience of getting pornography thrown in your face as a sixth grader (not to mention 12-year-old boys sending pictures of their erections), or superficial arms races in various trends or humiliations.
The social dynamics are good for some, but are pretty bad for others.
I'm not speaking from "heard it somewhere;" these are things I've experienced working with kids in my local school system, which is "pretty good" as those standards go. I've also worked with kids who are in fifth grade at the local schools that can't read, but while I have opinions about their school, it has as much to do with their family situation (or lack thereof) as anything else.
This is not to say that I think that all parents should homeschool, or that parents are wrong to send their kids to a public school. But it's not nearly as monolithic as some people say, and in my experience the "socialization" arguments are made in ignorance by people who do not know what they're talking about.
February 7th, 2019 at 11:24 AM ^
Anecdotal evidence can support or tear down either side of this argument. As in most things, the truth here is more complicated than a binary approach allows and situation/person specific circumstances will decide which option is "better". However, I'd argue there is no instance where either option is 100% superior. There is certainly something lost both ways and thus there are guaranteed negative consequences of the parents' choice.
February 7th, 2019 at 11:28 AM ^
I have no desire to stop you from home schooling and can certainly see the advantages in some ways. But most home schooled people I have come across lacked street smarts more than anything else.
K12 can be brutal and Id say my own experiences in school were a decidedly mixed bag, but the painful lessons are often the most useful.
Every office, factory or workshop you will ever work in will be a repeat of the dynamic of school in many ways. I found homeschooled people often struggled with the adjustment to those realities especially if they went to small Christian colleges as well.
February 8th, 2019 at 9:28 AM ^
exactly. I was a product of public education and my two teacher parents. My public school experience was hell. I was constantly bullied from elementary school to high school graduation. The bullying combined with home life issues caused me attempt take my own life my junior year. That said, I would not want to be home schooled. Public education allowed me to develop a love of culture, science, and sports. My 4th grade teacher (a farmer outside of school), my high school chemistry teacher/drama coach, and my cross country/track coach were the biggest influences on my life. Public ed also allowed me to develop my spirituality. I had friends who were strong christians (evangelical protestant, episcopalian, and catholic), jewish, and atheist. They allowed me to think outside of what i was being exposed to at my episcopal church. That and combined with my friends from graduate school (Muslim, Hindu, and atheist); I would say I subscribe to an agnostic spirituality.
I believe I am doing so well as high school science teacher because of my public education. I see kids everyday who are struggling with similar social and home life issues. I couldn't care less if my kids can remember hot to solve a Newton's law problem or a Punnett Square problem 1 year after they graduate. What do I care if if they have the social and emotional skills along with problem solving skills to handle life post-graduation.
February 8th, 2019 at 10:39 AM ^
did you read what you wrote? did you read what i posted from that stanford magazine, not my words but a very prestigious school commenting on homeschooling? you don't have to believe me, you can believe stanford about what a great thing homeschooling is. good enough or do you need more or better authority? if so, what would it be?
you described your experience as 'hell' and tragically nearly took your own life (i am glad you failed at that). attempted suicide is your idea of appropriate emotional and problem solving skills? you aren't serious. i know you aren't, you just didn't read what you wrote. you literally proved true almost everything i was positing.
you know nothing about homeschooled kids, you were never homeschooled and you of course would never subject children to that, right?
i wish you well but like i said in my other response - read what you wrote and the deep, deep problems and viciousness you exhibit and please don't question a parent's choice not to subject his/her children to such teachers.
February 8th, 2019 at 11:08 AM ^
and of course you are taking my post way out of context to support your position. You conveniently ignored my point for going into public education. I went into public education to ensure they are not making the same mistakes I did. but hey, you do you *eye roll*
February 8th, 2019 at 11:11 AM ^
I attempted my life when I was 16. I am 35 now. I think I have grown up socialially and emotionally now. Especially, after years of depression and social anxiety therapy. I have learned skills that I teach my students when I recognize the signs of depression in my students. My high school cross country coach was the teacher than recognized the signs and ensured I got the help I needed.
I am ashamed at people like you.
February 7th, 2019 at 10:14 AM ^
This retired pediatric nurse, my Pediatric Nurse Practitioner spouse and Pediatrician brother give you a standing ovation!!!
February 7th, 2019 at 10:30 AM ^
consider the straw man nature of that comment before you clap too hard.
and fwiw, i would love to have one or more of the kids become nurses and/or doctors. that's not part of homeschooling, only the younger years of education and character training.
February 7th, 2019 at 10:58 AM ^
Perhaps I skimmed too quickly :) The deprivation from encountering the natural world that our children are experiencing is pathological...physically and psychologically.
February 7th, 2019 at 12:08 PM ^
He chastise me for name calling, but began his initial idiotic post by insulting school leaders.
There is room for home schooling: Parents who think they know more than the people who do it for a living.
It's not a "straw man" to suggest you hire a plumber to look at your kidneys--you are essentially doing the same thing by home schooling. And don't introduce an idea without expecting it to be challenged.
This board is full of people who are full of themselves--you migh be the most egotistical.
February 7th, 2019 at 12:38 PM ^
He chastise [sic] me for name calling, but began his initial idiotic post by insulting school leaders.
He did no such thing. He actually discussed weak-kneed, lily-livered... administrators. And everyone knows that they are different than teachers, especially the teachers. Even laying aside the obvious tongue-in-cheek nature of the comment in context, you completely failed to read what he said.
Perhaps you were taught to read in a public school? (this is a joke, which I'm sure I will have to clarify, because only certain types of people are allowed to have a sense of humor)
There is room for home schooling: Parents who think they know more than the people who do it for a living.
Typical bigoted contempt. It's notable because a lot of people who hold such opinions claim to be opposed to bigotry, but practice it freely against people they don't like.
It's also ignorant, since there is a lot of diversity within the block of people that homeschool. Some actually use video programs that provide excellent, professional teaching from distance. Some are trained teachers themselves. Some hold advanced degrees and choose to teach on their own; others use self-directed programs that work well for autodidacts.
Not every approach is great. Nothing is monolithic. But your comment deserves scorn.
It's not a "straw man" to suggest you hire a plumber to look at your kidneys--you are essentially doing the same thing by home schooling.
You really have no idea what you are talking about. I've tried not to go overboard with this, but given your prejudice, I really need to bring this up: The kids I know that homeschool using good programs (there are varying qualities) read, write, and think circles around kids who are in public circles. The entire extent of their "socialization" issues revolve around using fewer cheap swear words and engaging in less bullying and abuse. You are spouting completely unfounded myths because you dislike certain people.
And don't introduce an idea without expecting it to be challenged.
Don't be a jerk without expecting to be challenged.
This board is full of people who are full of themselves--you migh [sic] be the most egotistical.
One of the posters in this conversation created a troll account (with a great avi pic!) to hate on other people. It's not xtramelanin.
BTW, those typos are rough. Are you in a hurry?
February 7th, 2019 at 1:01 PM ^
insult? you couldn't see that was tongue-in-cheek, having fun with john? you might be the only one who missed that.
so i'm right, you were not homeschooled and you have never homeschooled anyone else. its not nearly so hard as you make it out to do a good job, and with effort, great results can be had. in our house my mgowife deserves any/all credit on that front. also, in case you missed it, all those guys on mount rushmore were...homeschooled.
i would give you anecdotal stories of our kids' academics but that might set you off more. i think you'll find that homeschooling national test takers average at the 87% last i checked. and by way of example, stanford accepts something like 5 or 7% of all applicants. but they accept close to 35% of homeschool applicants.
lastly, our kids do end up in public school at some point (at least so far), granted on a co-op basis. we're cool with that. the admin and teachers that i know there are people we care for very much. i'm not saying 'no, never' to gov't school. its a great formula and if you ever have children you might want to look into it instead of viciously calling names.
February 7th, 2019 at 1:16 PM ^
it's one thing to be home schooled, and it's another to be taught at home in your mansion by multiple private tutors. i'm looking at you, teddy.
BTW - are you seriously suggesting that homeschooling improves your chances of getting accepted at Stanford? Using the home schooled sample size of less than 1% of those accepted?
February 7th, 2019 at 2:22 PM ^
re: acceptance - is there any other population or subset of applicants that gets accepted at that 1/3 rd rate? do the math - 47K apps, just over 2K admits, that's barely 4% admittance. and home schoolers were getting in at 35%. what do you think?
not sure about the mansion comment. was that for me, someone else, or for humor from a movie i haven't seen?
February 7th, 2019 at 2:59 PM ^
Is your name Teddy and are you on Mt. Rushmore?
My daughter applied last fall Early Action at Stanford. She has a 3.96 unweighted GPA at a top-20 school in the state. She has a SAT score of 1560. She has 4 AP classes with test scores of 4s and 5s, and is taking 3 more this year. She has leadership positions in multiple extra-curricular groups, she volunteers 6 or more hours a week and she has a part-time job.
She didn't get in. I guess we should have home-schooled her, huh?
ummm, no. Please provide a source for the 35% acceptance rate or I will conclude you pulled it out of your ass.
February 7th, 2019 at 4:42 PM ^
sounds like your daughter is wonderful and you are understandably bitter. where is she attending?
the stat i got was from someone like you, on this blog, having this same discussion maybe 4-6 years ago. i have here some stuff from 'stanford magazine' that probably explains the delta in admission rates. some excerpts here, link below:
That's a tiny subgroup, just 0.2 percent of the applicant pool. So why is the University interested? Admission officers sum it up in two words: intellectual vitality.
Looking very closely at homeschoolers is one way to get more of those special minds, the admission office has discovered. As Reider explains it: "Homeschooled students may have a potential advantage over others in this, since they have consciously chosen and pursued an independent course of study."
Among homeschoolers who end up at Stanford, "self-teaching" is a common thread. Parents usually teach in the early grades, assigning and correcting work, but later shift to a supervisory role, spending more time tracking down books and mentors. Stanford-bound homeschoolers typically take several college courses before they apply. The admission office encourages this, both to help with evaluation and to give students a taste of classroom learning before they arrive on the Farm.
i think there is lots more out there if you search for it. i don't have the time right now. i do also think there are some newer numbers out there where the admission rate of homeschoolers is not as high as 35%, but is still multiples of the regular app process.
one last thing - our house is really modest, especially given the size of our family.
link: https://stanfordmag.org/contents/in-a-class-by-themselves
February 7th, 2019 at 6:34 PM ^
I'm not bitter, but as a general rule I am exhausted by the fire hose of bullshit being passed off as fact from seemingly every source imaginable.
I had already read the Stanford Mag article, from the year 2000, which does state a preference for accepting home schooled applicants compared to home school acceptance at other elite schools, but a rate of 35% is never stated. This bias was largely the result of a single individual who, at the time of publication, had left Stanford 4 years prior. I would think that after 22 years any "institutionalization" of that individual's preference has likely worn away, and the home school acceptance rate at Stanford is likely the same as other applicant groups.
You may not have noticed a specific guideline for home schooled applicants at Stanford. The section describing required letters of recommendation does not sound too friendly for home schooled applicants, IMO.
My daughter also applied Early Decision to another elite school, and was accepted. She was so excited that she did not want to pursue any other schools, and she wanted to confirm her acceptance right away. I managed to at least wait until early January, but then paid the enrollment deposit at her insistence. Surprisingly, the school gave her a scholarship. She's thrilled.
The other school? You may have heard of it... The University of Michigan. Go Blue!
February 7th, 2019 at 8:44 PM ^
happy for her, happy for you. i hope you get over the bitterness - you disclaim it but it is quite apparent. it wasn't necessary and didn't help your communication of disagreements. good luck to daughter.
February 7th, 2019 at 1:48 PM ^
Technology has actually dramatically changed the whole concept of "home" schooling. There are plenty of on-line resources, just like those that allow college students to take on-line classes that don't require them to ever leave the house. There are also hybrid arrangements as XM alluded to.
Not taking sides, but the argument is no longer just one of cliched platitudes such as "substandard schools full of foul-mouthed bigots and bullies" vs "pedagogically unqualified paranoid helicopter parents."
There's plenty of gray area depending on district, location, special needs, living arrangements/style etc.
February 7th, 2019 at 8:33 AM ^
If a single kindergarten student got disoriented, lost, and died due to the cold, somewhere in your school district or probably within the state, you'd be crying bloody murder for the entire school system leadership to be axed and sent to jail.
February 7th, 2019 at 8:53 AM ^
I would agree with you if it was not 35 degrees and raining outside.
February 7th, 2019 at 8:33 AM ^
Here in South-Central Kansas the area schools are closed for the second consecutive day. They are always looking for excuses to use the built-in weather days. Yesterday the closings were ridiculous...I will give them some slack today. Single digit temps with 30-40 mph winds do pose dangers that are reasonable to be avoided-out here on the barren prairie.
February 7th, 2019 at 8:45 AM ^
Is this in Michigan? I'm in DMV, and I thought the same thing when they canceled school twice last week, and were late start every other day. I don't blame the kids, it honestly seems like school administrators look outside and think "Oh jeez its wet and cold out there, I dont want to go out" [sips coffee in robe] "well its just not safe for the kids, need to cancel".
How is this not teaching kids that if the weather is bad you get to take day off? Every other job , unless conditions extreme, you need to go to work.
February 7th, 2019 at 8:49 AM ^
^^^
I am not adverse to snow days. 9 inches of snow still accumulating during morning rush hour and 0 degrees outside? Sure. That is a thing. Keep them home. But this is Michigan. The weather is always weird and we can have harsh winters. But life goes on. There used to be "main road only" days for busses and it was all good. Frankly, this day should not even have been that, at least where I live. The roads were fine and well treated.