Harbaugh's policy on practice/playing time for injured players?
Maybe you think this doesn't deserve it's own post, but meh. It's related to Solomon and the recent transfers, but my post is about something more specific. First, I want to say I'm not at all accusing the staff of doing something wrong, but I'm just looking for more information and insight on the situation. I've actually been one of the few defending the program the last couple weeks and I don't think these transfers show there's anything chaotic or unsettling about what's going on in the program, though it does suck for next year.
A lot of people have been guessing about the "common theme" Solomon's mom hinted at regarding transfers. People have mentioned playing time, racism, losing to OSU etc., but the common theme to me seems to be something about how injuries affect the depth chart and how some players perceive that. I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all. It's hard to say without knowing more. Umbig11 mentioned this but it's buried on page 6 or so on the board post of Solomon's transfer: "I will keep it short. You need to be available to play to help your team win. He’s missed a lot of games. Last year can be misleading too. He was credited for playing in 3 different games, but only played 7 or 8 snaps. No doubt it will hurt the depth chart. There will be more attrition."
Playing time in and of itself doesn't make sense for obvious reasons given Hudson and Solomon. I also have absolutely no idea how this could be race-related. It's not like these guys are getting benched for scrappy lunch-pail white players. But Hudson transferred almost immediately after being declared behind Steuber once he had a minor injury. It seems like Solomon did roughly the same. People are talking about rumors of Black considering a transfer and that would also seem to be related to injuries. We also all know about Zordich hinting that one of the CBs (Hill or Long? Both? I forget) may be falling behind because of injuries. Walker had other issues, but he also did have some injury issues. I can't recall hearing of anything about Singleton while he was at Michigan but he came in with an injured ACL. Some transfers like Asiasi (family) and Wheatley (weight) don't seem relevant to these latest transfers.
I'd be curious if umbig11 or others could be more specific about how injuries are treated within the program in regards to the depth chart and practice time and whether this is different from other programs. Maybe it's part of Harbaugh's emphasis on competition. There's nothing wrong with that. Some have mentioned how OSU and Alabama have also lost huge numbers of players from recent classes. It'd be hard to compare the reasons for all of these though since most aren't publicly commented on.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:35 AM ^
Preach
December 18th, 2018 at 9:36 AM ^
What “narrative” are you speaking about that needs to change?
I’ve been saying for a long time that players and their families read the comments people post in here, and to be honest, I even wrote an email to Brian about allowing Maizen, et. al., continually post negative posts — I got no response, btw. This is a classic CoIntellPro tacit used by “agitators” for centuries. As paranoid as it sounds, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to find out that other programs have message board/comment trolls on staff who act like disgruntled fans.
Times have changed, and everyone — seeming Harbaugh too, if what you’re saying is correct — have to change accordingly.
December 18th, 2018 at 10:14 AM ^
100%^^^^
December 18th, 2018 at 11:59 AM ^
Talk about negative recruiting on the boards? You just fucking shat all over Harbaugh and his communication skills which they are going to spin as "lying". They are going to use your post!
December 18th, 2018 at 1:36 PM ^
This is the best post I've read on MGoBlog in years
Front page it
December 18th, 2018 at 6:11 PM ^
Can this he put on the top of the message board as it's something everyone needs to see and read if they want to contribute to this board in any way
December 18th, 2018 at 9:29 AM ^
I get the feeling that JH focuses more on competition than on winning. If your #1 goal is to win, you play the players that give you the best opportunity to do that. If you have other goals like discipline, competition, etc. that might sway you to play another player that has worked harder, been healthy, etc. but is not as good of a player. I'm not saying JH and his staff do this, but some of these incidents seem to reflect they might. And, IMO this is a tactical mistake. This is a prime difference between JH and Meyer. Meyer has the reputation of going to the other side too far and giving star players preferential treatment, but ultimately this increases the chances of winning more games. You can teach lessons and have conversations with players, but if you want to win, you have to play the players that give you the best chance of doing so.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:39 AM ^
It feels like maybe you get pushed to the bottom of the depth chart after coming off an injury and have to battle your way back. A battle which you may have already won. I could see situations like that grinding on guys.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:47 AM ^
This is one of the trickiest and most crucial parts of coaching...who do you put on the field??? And here is where Saban is the best. He has both built the roster and employed the talent. You have to give the man credit here. Conversely, if Michigan fans have a legitimate concern with Jim Harbaugh, this will be near the top of the list. I appreciate the challenge of sorting through the talent of 100 kids...but it is part of the deal.
As a coach, my perspective was "Who gives this team the best chance of winning?"...the end. Personality differences cannot come into play...and even practice work ethic-to a large extent, have to be ignored. There are (too) many kids who can practice like world-beaters but in real time, in the heat of battle cannot tie their own shoe laces. Saban plays the kid who can make the plays...here, I do wonder about Harbaugh. (I continually shake my head at the RB situation.)
Each if us are informed by our very individual life experiences...there will be honest disagreement between knowledgeable folks. This is my perspective...I practiced hard...got to play...played well-at least that's what folks thought.
December 18th, 2018 at 10:02 AM ^
and even practice work ethic-to a large extent, have to be ignored.
Are you serious?! I’m sorry but that is just plain horrible. How in the world does a coach instill hard work and dedication to developing skills to their fullest potential for all players, but then pull a classic “double standard” by letting slackers play?
“But coach ... Johnny sits and picks dandelions all practice while I’m running and doing all the drills ... how come he gets to play when you said we have to work hard?”
”well Timmy, YOU have to work hard, but Johnny doesn’t ...”
good luck!
December 18th, 2018 at 10:09 AM ^
More talented players give you a better chance to win. Life lessons can be taught on Sunday through Friday. The objective is to win.
December 18th, 2018 at 12:42 PM ^
Not if they’ve been hurt or sick and have fallen behind physically and mentally.
December 18th, 2018 at 10:10 AM ^
I am very sympathetic to your position and it holds good merit...but only as you hyperbolize the difference in effort. Ideally, your best players practice as hard as everyone else. As a coach, your team deserves the best chance of winning...otherwise,there are a ton of "lesson" opportunities throughout the week.
December 18th, 2018 at 12:49 PM ^
Yes, ideally. But if a player isn’t doing what is “ideally expected of him”, regardless of his “talent”, coach owes it to the team to find someone else who is willing to do what is asked of him. This idea that talent ALWAYS trumps hard work is false, and sets a very dangerous precedent.
Even without hyperbole in regards to effort, if he’s behind in the metrics, he’s got to find a way to get back. If players see inequality they’d be quitting in droves. They’re not because they don’t feel slighted and understand how the system works. Not everyone is going to feel that way. Sacrificing the team’s ethics in the hope that it brings more wins is a fools errand.
December 18th, 2018 at 10:15 AM ^
You tell them "Welcome to the real world".
Some people are naturally skinny and can eat anything. Some people have to watch every calorie and work out.
Some people excel in academics without ever studying. Some people have to spend hours every day studying just to get by.
In the real world, it's the sum total of your talents/efficiencies and your work ethic that matters. If you miss half the time, but sell 3x as much as anyone else on the team... well, bosses make exceptions for "rainmakers".
December 18th, 2018 at 12:58 PM ^
You’re not grasping the concept here. You don’t get on the field without attaining a certain level of merits, if you will. Once you get on the field you need to keep accruing merits, or else someone behind you will pass you. If you can’t accrue merits — whether due to injury, sickness, grade issues — you’re going to fall behind. Does that deficit simply disappear because one player is deemed “more talented” than the other?
The rainmaker scenario, although valid in rare occasions, isn’t here. Solomon wasn’t coming in and dominating. He’s been injured twice, then sick, and when in had little impact. Should he be rewarded because he was a 5* who, on paper, SHOULD give a better chance to win? That’s nonsense.
Talent is not a total, it’s subjective, not objective. If you’re so talented that you can not do the work but perform when out in, show me. That’s not what I saw from Solomon nor almost anyone. You guys are acting like that’s a common thing. Cmon! The “best chance to win” is the guy who’s put in the work, not the guy who is the “most talented” in almost every occasion in every walk of life.
December 19th, 2018 at 8:29 AM ^
If the "merits" aren't causative with respect to winning football games - then those "merits" have no criterion validity, and shouldn't be used as a metric for determining playing time.
The “best chance to win” is the guy who has the greatest sum of "putting in the work" and "talent". Sometimes that is a guy with minimal talent and an insane work ethic. Sometimes that is a guy with minimal work ethic and insane talent.
...but neither "work ethic" nor "talent" are useful, at all, out of the context of "winning football games". If your working super hard doesn't increase the odds of winning football games, there should be no special reward for it.
December 18th, 2018 at 12:31 PM ^
Everyone is working hard in practice. THe goal for most of these kids is the NFL not playing time. If someone was sitting around picking dandelions they would be kicked off. The gap between the hardest worker and the kid who practices least hard is very marginal.
December 18th, 2018 at 1:08 PM ^
Yes, it may well be, but as you said, there’s still a gap. That gap, according to Coach himself, is what determines PT. Not recruiting rankings and some nebulous term like “talent.”
A coach would blow all credibility out of the water if he were to operate like some of you espouse. This is what everyone on the team means when they say, “hold each other accountable.” You’re being accounted in everything you do. You’re talent is not measurable,
December 18th, 2018 at 10:04 AM ^
18-22 year olds are dissatisfied.....tell me something I didn't know.
December 18th, 2018 at 10:36 AM ^
Discussion raises many good points, and if the tone sometimes becomes rather grumpy, that is only to be expected with a topic that concerns us, especially in the light of unexpected transfers.
I would remind everyone, however, that missing training and playing time through injury does negatively impact performance upon return. (Having broken my hip earlier this year, I have been freshly reminded of the uncomfortable fact.) It takes time to regain condition and shake off the rust, and that can be frustrating. (Nor is it always possible, as we have seen.) A fresh start elsewhere might be tempting and indeed might prove to be a good thing for the player.
Are the coaches demanding too much from players, or allowing them longer to get back up to speed? Are the players too easily discouraged, or not receiving the treatment and support they deserve? This will often be a subjective assessment, colored by our own experience. Nor is it easy to make accurately with limited information.
I would hope that the coaching staff are as concerned as we are about this trend, though in passing I should note that almost all universities and other education institutions worry about retention. The high drop-out rate is why the freshman class is so much larger than the graduating class almost everywhere. The Marines too, as one contributor noted.
Balance is hard to achieve, but one hopes that we can all learn from mistakes.
And successes.
Go Blue!
December 18th, 2018 at 11:01 AM ^
Both Solomon and Hudson considered transferring multiple times in their brief stays at UM. Perhaps their injury/depth chart standing gave them the excuse to finally go ahead and pull the trigger on leaving?
December 18th, 2018 at 11:58 AM ^
December 18th, 2018 at 3:47 PM ^
Solomon was a disaster waiting to happen. Look at the crap he pulled against Michigan when being recruited. He gone. Best of luck to him.
December 19th, 2018 at 6:55 AM ^
One thing that hasn't been mentioned about meritocracies in sports is that they work best in every single sport except college football! All other sports can sacrifice a game or two for culture. Even the NFL as the Patriots are a perfect example. College football, or at least D1 -- no can do. You have to play to win EVERY game if you're a top tier team.