What would you change
Other than "recruit better" what changes should be made to keep getting better and take the next step ?
Let's realize that last year Oline was crappy and receivers were total non factor. Both improved this season.
1. Is it as simple as start practicing more zone ? Regarding "go more spread " I am suspicious we are headed that way the way we are recruiting slot ninjas (?).
2. There is a lot of consternation re: scheme. Curious to hear Brian's take but can a coach (hello space coyote or Magnus et Al) point out if our offensive scheme is truly "outdated". I know someone posted getting Jedd Fisch, but is there any doubt Harbaugh won't at least consult with him to get more ideas about offensive upgrade ala calling bill bilichek to get D brown ?
3. Had fun watching this team demolish most of the teams on schedule. Feels like this is Michigan's floor now. I won't call this overachieving. 10 wins season. I'll take it. Where do we improve from here and how , specifically how is roster looking for us next year and what about OSU? can M take them out in Ann arbor next year ??
November 25th, 2018 at 4:37 PM ^
1. Continue making strides in the Strength program. Another offseason with massive gainz
2. Tweek the offense to rely less on tight ends. We need much more speed in space. There should never be 3 tight ends on one play unless it’s goal line
3. Recruit blazing speed first and foremost. All skill guys should be Track stars in high school with 100m times well under 11 seconds.
4. Emphasize The Game even more than they do. Figuring out how to beat OSU has to be the reason you wake up in the morning
November 26th, 2018 at 4:42 AM ^
Need more speed on defense, especially the back 7. And a breakaway threat at RB would be nice.
But I disagree about TEs. A program that emphasizes them much has a certain recruiting and schematic advantage over those that don't. We need the top recruits in the country at TE, to be known for it -- guys who can both catch and block. TEs stress LBers and safeties and DCs because limit what a defense can scheme and cheat against your offense. They make the run support slower and give the wider receivers more single coverage. Getting rid of TEs for more slot receivers is a mistake.
November 25th, 2018 at 4:38 PM ^
Jan 19th, 2001, OSU hired a guy that had a strict set of priorities. They didnt have to beg him to come there or pay a kings ransom. They got a hungry ass son of a gun that did two things. He locked down Ohio recruiting and prioritized beating Michigan. Simple. A self sustaining machine was built. No longer were they gonna let us poach the Howards and Woodsons of their state, the difference makers.
Michigan just doesnt have the talent in state to win that knife fight. Football isnt life in this state like it is in Texas, Ohio and Florida. Convincing those lids to come here is hard. Tressell finally just figured out that he had an sec setup in columbus. Just had to be smart enough to use it. We need that type of identity. A new identity.
November 25th, 2018 at 4:56 PM ^
Interestingly, if you look at Urban's current list of recruits, you won't find many Ohio players on the upcoming recruiting list; in fact, I believe Michigan has more prospective recruits from Ohio than Ohio State does this year.
November 25th, 2018 at 4:57 PM ^
I mean that was all true back in 2001. Locking Michigan out of Ohio recruiting was key to Tressel gaining control of the rivalry at that time.
But it is totally different now. Both Michigan and OSU rely a lot less on Ohio for recruiting. Much more of a national game now.
November 25th, 2018 at 7:38 PM ^
In emphasizing recruiting with a goal to beat Michigan, Tressel and Meyer are smart enough to realize that preparing for Michigan should easily prepare their teams to beat most other teams. We need a coach who looks at this rivalry this way. If we hate Ohio State, obsess with beating them, recruit players who want to beat them, and finally figure out that puzzle, the other teams on the schedule would have to be as good as Ohio State or better to even compete, and that'll hardly ever be the case.
November 25th, 2018 at 4:43 PM ^
We need to become much more dynamic with our passing game. We definitely have talent at the receiver position and solid at QB with Patterson/McCaffery.
What our offense is lacking IMO is schemes and route combinations that put players like DPJ and Chris Evans (maybe Tarik, hard to say at this point in his career) in high leverage situations in space. That puts a ton of pressure on opposing secondaries and lessens their ability to support the run game, which is what Michigan wants to emphasize offensively, and I am fine with that.
Currently it looks like a lot of what we're asking Shea to do in the passing game is fit the ball into tight windows using outdated route concepts from the NFL. We use a lot of flat routes and a lot of deep vertical routes. Effective occasionally, but also predictable. We need more mesh and rub routes, pick plays, more "P" in our RPO's, unique screen designs, etc. I am not suggesting we go "Air Raid" and throw it around the yard 60 times a game, but effective offenses in 2018 throw the ball 35-50 times per game and Michigan should be somewhere on the lower end that spectrum.
Passing attempts in the 20's is outdated and makes your play calling more predictable and easier to diagnose. And that is an issue we must correct if we have a realistic chance of beating teams like OSU. Saban is clearly moving his offense in this direction as well and Harbaugh has to adapt and modernize this offense. Again, I am not suggesting a change in identity. I'm talking about updating and refreshing the passing concepts of the offense. When you get OSU 's best shot, they will put up points on anyone. Period. Michigan needs to be able to do it too if they're going to beat them.
My understanding is that particular responsibility (i.e. main contributor to Harbaugh on play design and route scheming) would belong to Pep Hamilton as the "Passing Game Coordinator".
To me that says Pep either needs to adjust his philosophy or he needs to go - and my guess would be probably the latter because he doesn't have a track record of running that type of offense, he has a track record of running pro-style offenses from earlier in the decade that even NFL franchises are moving away from . But it is not acceptable to get your doors blown off by OSU all while completely mismanaging the dynamic offensive players you have.
November 25th, 2018 at 5:01 PM ^
Exactly correct. I guess after signing day we will see if JH is of a similar mind or not.
November 25th, 2018 at 4:52 PM ^
The general concern I have going forward is mentality. It was interesting to me - as the "revenge" tour ramped up, Harbaugh was quick to dismiss this, and is on record as saying he sees it more as a championship tour. That's fine - he's made it quite clear that he's focused on winning championships - great. But so was Hoke. Remember 3 losses in, Hoke saying "Michigan can still win the big ten."? The problem, as many have pointed out, is that the road to the big ten goes through OSU.
This loss has a similar feel to the loss against MSU last year. Prepare all you want, but MSU was playing with hate, and an understanding of the rivalry. I remember thinking that Michigan lacks this mentality, and sorely needs it. Enter, the Revenge tour, which was refreshing. I believe this is one area of mentality we now lack when it comes to OSU.
It's shocking to me that a former player under Schembechler doesn't seem to be instilling this in the team. Bo was able to use this mentality to defeat OSU in his first season. This lack of primal hatred for our rival is evident in Woodson saying that we need to refocus on the rivalry at the beginning of the season, Brown's heated focus on PSU but not OSU, and the players - not the coaches - cultivating a mentality needed to win the big games. At the end of the day, the lack of understanding and heat for this rivalry will continue to lead to losses: overconfidence, underestimating the opponent, bland offense, poor schemes. Is it dumb that Meyer doesn't allow the color blue in his classes, or dresses his scout team in winged helmets? Sure. But this shows a razor focus and understanding that I sadly am not seeing in this Michigan coaching regime when it comes to this rivalry.
Do I ultimately believe the program should move on from Harbaugh? No. But I do believe things need to be looked at objectively. Ready yourselves for hypotheticals - what if we lose the bowl game? What if we lose to ND in 2019? What if we lose to MSU in 2019? What if we lose OSU in 2019? Sure, at some point in the future, we will beat OSU. But what about after that? Does anyone firmly believe that we'll do so a year after, or the year after that? The "revenge" mentality will be gone next season. Has Harbaugh shown that he has the correct mindset to charge a team to compete week in and week out all the way through the end of the season to The Game? I'm not so sure.
November 25th, 2018 at 5:00 PM ^
Move the game to earlier in the season it no longer deserves to be the last game of the season! Don’t care about tv ratings we need to play them in warmer weather imo
November 25th, 2018 at 6:36 PM ^
I don’t get this whole idea that the coaches aren’t “emphasizing” The Game enough....you can emphasize it all you want but if you don’t execute or have the players to win, how much emphasis is put on the game doesn’t matter. Imo we didn’t have the strength up front on either side of the ball to win. Our dline looked inferior; we got ZERO pressure on them to negate the lack of athleticism we had in the secondary to counter their advantage at that spot. Offensively, our line struggled most of the day. Our front on offense and defense played a HUGE role in our loss. Had we “emphasized” this game more, I doubt that the ending would have been different.
November 25th, 2018 at 6:53 PM ^
I think my point here, as noted by another poster, is that your season lives and dies on this game, and everything you do trickles down from the emphasis on it. Therefore, everything you do must foreshadow this.
As an example, and to your point, Harbaugh did this last year. He saw the size of our players in comparison to OSU's, and hired an improved strength coach. This needs to be done in all facets of the game.
As a coach at Michigan, you can't just run a scheme because you want to expecting it to just work. You need to run one that has a high probability of beating our rival, and gatekeeper to the big ten, after you've dissected them in and out. Haskins said it himself - he watched tape, found our holes, and tore them open.
I don't get the feeling that this staff did this, as noted by many in our inability to stop passes that Indiana exploited just a week before. If our staff truly focused on this OSU team, they would have realized the validity of your points, and worked around them. Drop more if you can't pressure for example.
To connect this back to my original post, if this game and this rivalry was emphasized, these things would have been addressed and fixed well before the end of the season. We were caught sleeping because the goal was on a big ten championship, and not on winning the game. This was pointed out by Bo himself - his answer to why he had such an abysmal bowl record was that the focus, preparation, and emotional toll of The Game was just too much to keep going into the postseason.
At the very least, though, Bo understood the order of things. You can't get a championship - in any regard - without beating OSU. And you aren't Michigan until you're consistently beating OSU.
November 25th, 2018 at 9:03 PM ^
I believe it is emphasized. I believe they knew what osu was going to do but didn’t have the athletes to cover their speed. Again, if we had better pass rush, that would have negated some of Haskins success. Maybe ambry could have covered better than Watson, I think he should have at least got a chance, maybe that’s a sign why he didn’t...look, I know the osu game is important, no question, I’m sick of losing it. I think we are close, hopefully next season is our year to beat them.
November 25th, 2018 at 10:17 PM ^
Biggest loss ever to them, where we looked worse than Maryland and Purdue, but yep, we are close and maybe next year it is...
November 25th, 2018 at 8:38 PM ^
I do think there is something to the - at least perceived - mental edge that OSU seems to have over Michigan in the last decade plus of the rivalry. Our players and coaches say "it's the biggest game of the year" and "it's circled in red on the calendar", but what does that mean to them when they say that?
To OSU it means, putting practice players in winged helmets, it means not using the letter M in the state of Ohio for a week, or other stupid stuff. But I think really for them, beating Michigan is the reason the football program exists. It's why they play football - to beat us. Michigan seems to think this game is a great tradition and legacy. Ohio State thinks it is a war. They are desperate to beat us, year-in, year-out regardless of records and it shows up on the field.
While Michigan talks the talk, they do not walk the walk in this series. A hatred seems to be more deeply ingrained at Ohio State than at Michigan. So while our players say "we hate Ohio State", we know Ohio State players HATE Michigan and use that hatred to fuel their very best physical and mental performance into this game. Beating Michigan gives their program a purpose to exist. At least from what I observed on Saturday, we are not there yet and we need to be.
November 25th, 2018 at 5:00 PM ^
They weren't really a manball team this year and probably won't be next year. I'd like to see them stop trying to pound that square peg into a round hole. Winning in a shootout is better than losing a rock fight.
November 25th, 2018 at 5:06 PM ^
Notre Dame already knows what plays Harbaugh will run to start next season,
UNLESS Harbaugh hires a new OC AND gives him some freedom.
Watched them switch from soft man to zone with a rolled corner last night within
the same game to shut USC down !
Meanwhile Don Brown is still running the same scheme while Haskins carves'em
up like a leftover turkey. Ever heard of ADJUSTMENTS coach ?
November 25th, 2018 at 5:47 PM ^
I would also add that another change needed is fan and head coach mentality; a splash of cold water to the nuts. This was one of the worst losses against our arch rival in our history, our head coach is 0-4 in his time here, and we're close to a quarter century of being dominated by them. But hey, we won 10 games.
This thought process needs to change. If Meyer had lost 2 in a row to us, not 4, he most likely would have been let go. If an OSU defensive coordinator had been routed as bad as we were yesterday, he most likely would be let go. This is the kind of savage expectations the program needs to have that trickles down to everything: it ignites assistant coaches, ignites players, and ignites fans to show up during foul weather games. Until then, we will continue to flip flop loses and wins with MSU each year, and end each season in a loss to OSU. Thoughts of a big ten championship or a national championship are just pipe dreams.
November 25th, 2018 at 5:47 PM ^
Trust players to make plays.
Create and exploit mismatches on offense
do something to scheme against mismatches in defense
Call plays that work, not plays that fit your run run throw philosophy when that’s clearly not working
install a hurry up offense
this is all the shit you’d expect a competent coaching staff to do, and most do. The MSUs of the world don’t. Is that what we want to be?
November 25th, 2018 at 6:15 PM ^
1. Don Brown needs to spend his entire offseason studying how to stop up tempo offenses that spread out and get ball off quickly. He needs to turn the Viper into a fucking QB spy. Hudson went backwards this year, and his only known plays were his targeting calls.
2. Teach the DBs non-press man. I’d like them to learn how not to grab the WRs all day long.
3. LBs not names Bush need to be fast and learn to play in space.
4. No more damned man to man mismatches with LBs on RBs. Bush cannot cover the better teams on those motions. They need a a set of automatic audibles that keep the LB inside on those empty backfield motions, etc.
5. Play more Nickel base defense to get DB experience against the end of year schedule. Ambry Thomas and company didn’t develop much. We relied on Watson (worst game of season) and no Hawkins or Woods or JKP at end of year.
6. Enough with the everyone gets a say subterfuge. Pick a fucking offensive coordinator and an offense and learn it and commit to it. Or own it has the head coach and get better at play calling.
7. Yes, beat the dead horse and fire Pep Hamilton and Jay Harbaugh. Bring in Mike Hart. Ask John to take Jay, or move Jay to an analyst position.
8. Go ahead and keep Jay, but do 1-7 as otherwise stated.
9. Watch the NFL and study how to get some damn holding calls.
10. Bring back intense Jim Harbaugh. Not media offseason weird Jim, but media day death look Jim. Jim Harbaugh who doesn’t like his own brother during Super Bowl week Jim.
I don’t care anymore about what the refs or anyone else thinks. I want weird Jim Harbaugh back—the guy who grates other coaches and makes his players love and hate him, but ultimately respect him.
Have we seen him do any kind of pregame Bo-type speeches?
November 25th, 2018 at 6:19 PM ^
Never thought I’d say this, but can’t wait to face a more typical dual-threat OSU QB in Tate Martell. We’ll be at home, and Tate strikes me as kinda arrogant so a win then and there will be oh so satisfying.
Hope Meyer returns.
November 25th, 2018 at 6:38 PM ^
I would keep the alien bodysnatchers away from our D lineman.
November 25th, 2018 at 7:01 PM ^
- Hire a young, creative offensive coordinator. Trust him. Give him full power over playcalling and personnel decisions.
- Start recruiting more efficiently. Stop taking these two and three star diamonds in the rough that you expect to develop. That works sometimes, but it's not sustainable. It certainly won't help you compete with Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, OSU, etc. So change your methods and your staff.
- Use analytics. I don't know how much we use for recruiting and playcalling decisions, if any. But, if we don't use it as much as we should...then expand.
- Buy in. I don't think our players hate OSU as much as they say they do. They're conditioned to lose to that team, because they keep doing so. Devin Bush even stated he hates MSU more. You can see the effort was completely different between the two games. Urban plays "We're going to war" by LL cool J, the week of the game on constant loop during practice. Every day. They cross out the "M's." They don't even say our name. Meyer is kicks out anyone wearing maize or blue around the facility. They wear our helmets and uniforms to replicate. They have a countdown clock. Dre'Mont Jones stated that if they won every game, won a national championship, but lost to us, their season would be considered a failure. These things may be cheesy to us, but it really seems to work. They hate us more than words can describe. Beating us is their mission 365. I really think we need to reach that level of obsession and hate as a program to beat them with Urban Meyer at the helm.
- Develop your zone defense. This aggressive man defense is only successful when we get pressure. We need other options to deploy.
- Get rid of Pep, McElwain, Jay....Hire some top tier candidates.
These are a few of the suggestions I'd have, but obviously there are many things that are correctable at the moment.
November 25th, 2018 at 7:18 PM ^
How about some d-line development?
November 25th, 2018 at 7:57 PM ^
First off I want to be clear that I am actually happy with where this program is.
But to answer the question....I really just want schemes on both sides of the ball that are adaptable - for the coordinators to gameplan for their opponent and exploit weaknesses rather than “impose their will”.
i think this exists to some extent on each side of the ball, but they also both seem to have agendas they try to force the scheme into.
November 25th, 2018 at 8:09 PM ^
Study OSU deeply. Identify the ways to minimize their strengths and to maximize ours. Identify ways to expose their weaknesses and hide ours.
Basically do exactly what OSU just did to us, philosophically.
November 25th, 2018 at 8:15 PM ^
Fuck off troll
November 25th, 2018 at 9:02 PM ^
Entitlement mentality?
Buckeye fans have to troll about their football team because that reflected glory the only thing they can really feel good or superior about. While they aren't the brightest, even they are smart enough to know that no matter how many football games they win in a row, they will still have the inferior university. That is the source of their hatred and scorn.
November 25th, 2018 at 9:43 PM ^
Exactly.
Now go deliver that pizza real quick landofscarlet.
M is getting better. Just like M has beatenSU, it'll beat OSU as well.
November 25th, 2018 at 11:24 PM ^
You lost me at "tOSU".
Tuned out after that.
November 25th, 2018 at 10:03 PM ^
Don't you have a wife to beat or sex toys to play with ?
November 25th, 2018 at 11:07 PM ^
Fuck off, troll
November 25th, 2018 at 9:57 PM ^
"Neg me, ban me..."
Let's make this happen. I've done my share. Have you?
November 25th, 2018 at 10:34 PM ^
How good of a kisser is your sister?
November 26th, 2018 at 10:31 AM ^
OSU is a second tier school with a great football program. You probably don’t even realize why that’s an insult.
November 25th, 2018 at 8:14 PM ^
I would force OSU out of the B1G and to fold up all their athletic programs
November 25th, 2018 at 8:37 PM ^
Our issues in these blowouts is predominately player matchups. Paris Campbell is a future first round draft pick and Pro Bowler. We had a bunch of average college players trying to cover him. Until we get elite safeties and OLBs we are not going to the CFPs. OSU just proved that.
On offense we could use a better OL and utilization of WRs in the passing game. But with Shea offense was good enough.
Bama, Clemson, OSU and even Georgia have elite players at EVERY position. We do not and not many teams do. There needs to be an expanded playoffs so elite players have more team options as right now with 4 teams the elite players are stuck choosing from the same 4.
November 25th, 2018 at 8:44 PM ^
Get rid of the huddle
50/50 split between running and passing
More sets with one tight end than with two
Recruit more elite pass rushers
Immediately develop our elite incoming class of defenders so we have more speed
November 25th, 2018 at 8:52 PM ^
On special teams: teach returners not to do anything stupid. Teach punters to get the ball off and give coverage a chance to pin the opposing offense down.
On defense: more zone and especially zone blitz. Change up coverages with various robber schemes, etc. DL get a hand up when prevented from reaching the QB.
On offense:
Pro-style offense is fine, but actually do it like the pros--don't be afraid to throw it deep on any down, even jump ball arm punts. Throw more progressions deep to short. Put linebackers in a bind. If you are going to use two back in the backfield, use quick hitters AND split flow/misdirection.
May need to simplify the WCO nomenclature without dumbing down the offense: Find ways to get plays in, called, and run much faster and go tempo when needed,
Design and prepare to beat the elite programs you will need to beat to achieve the real goals--and that especially means tOSU. DON'T try to copy them (can't recruit the same players they do, as they have an advantage), but DO get good at the various possible ways needed to beat them.
November 25th, 2018 at 9:16 PM ^
Being a varsity defensive coach I agree 100 % ! Mad robber packages please
November 25th, 2018 at 9:03 PM ^
Hire Tony Annese to run the offense before CMU gets him.
November 25th, 2018 at 9:15 PM ^
Jay harbaugh and pep shown the door .
November 25th, 2018 at 9:17 PM ^
So what other teams do ! Play freshman with speed
November 25th, 2018 at 9:47 PM ^
Can speculate many things, but BlowGoo has it right and it’s not that complicated: the most talented lines will win. Our lines were getting demolished yesterday, plain and simple.
You can talk about spread scheme, manball philosophy, better route progressions, and Jedd Fisch, but none of that will matter if the lines are getting overwhelmed. Shea was anxious yesterday while Haskins was extremely comfortable. That’s a line issue.
November 25th, 2018 at 10:16 PM ^
Burn those road uniforms - they are bad luck.
November 25th, 2018 at 11:19 PM ^
I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground.
Yet I always know what we will do on first down.
I'd change that.
November 26th, 2018 at 6:13 AM ^
I would change our fanbase. Way too many sore losers, kid bashers, coach bashers, and people who can't get through life knowing that their beloved team lost a game.
November 26th, 2018 at 8:43 AM ^
"feels like this is michigan's floor now."
thanks for that, i hadn't really thought of it that way, and i completely, 100% agree.
November 26th, 2018 at 11:26 AM ^
Now that he’s available, I would at least approach Kliff Kingsbury about potentially getting him here for a week or two to download his brain for both offensive concepts and about his experiences with the defensive schemes that worked best to counter those concepts.
November 26th, 2018 at 2:01 PM ^
I really wish we could get Art Briles as our new OC. He turned Baylor into a offensive machine and would bring us where we need to be. We throw gut punches and occasionally pop a big run or throw a long one down field. Ohio was going for the throat on each of their processions. The spread is winning in college football along with RPO's. Our offense now is too predictable and we need to utilize the talent we have spread across the field. All (4) teams in last years CFP utilize the spread/RPO offense. It will be the same this year as well. We MUST adapt as we are already behind.