is Michigan now Notre Dame under Charlie Weis?
hey guys Dan Wetzel tweeted this after the game. right now i would have to agree. Hoke says all the right things, can get a decent amount of good recruits, but the games are awful. what do you think?
The more you watch Michigan the more it reminds of Charlie Weis Notre Dame. Big recruits, big talk, not good football
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:11 PM ^
You're probably right. So I'll amend it:
5. Hoke gets five year extension after 8-5 year in 2016
November 24th, 2013 at 12:10 AM ^
Since this thread is comparing UM Hoke to ND Weis. Hoke gets 10 year extension for almost beating tOSU but losing to a "Bush Push", "Miller Thriller?"
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:01 PM ^
I just want to be happy. Mike Tice at OC would be a step up. With Gardner coming back, how can we continue to say that the implementation of the pro-style offense is the issue setting the offense back? We need someone who is proven and able to be flexible with personnel.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:08 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:11 PM ^
Mike Tice > Al Borges. That was the lowball comparison...
November 23rd, 2013 at 6:01 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 7:13 PM ^
its too late
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:21 PM ^
Brandon is a business man. He doesn't want to see this school lose money, and as a former player, I'm sure the last thing he wants to see and tolerate is yet another embarrassment against OSU. I doubt Brandon is the type of guy that's content with nice, consistent 8-9 win seasons and the occasional 10 win season. I guarantee you the man wants to win, and he wants to kick OSU's ass in the process.
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:33 PM ^
Its a little ironic that many of us bemoan Dave Brandon the business man, but Dave Brandon the business man could be the thing that forces that changes this team needs.
You're right that as a business man, and as Hoke's boss, he could and should step in and force some changes to improve his core product. Brady might not like it, but a simple "you need to make some changes, or its your ass on the line" might do the trick.
Honestly, the best thing to do would be to fire Borges now. There's no expectation of winning the OSU game, and having no OC provides a bit of a mitigating defense for getting your asses kicked. They've seen all the evidence they need to see at this point on whether or not they are going to keep him. OSU isn't going to make a difference. So just do it now if you're going to do it.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:55 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 6:04 PM ^
These have been my exact same predictions for a month now. I see Hoke's baseline ("best") season as 3 losses with his current staff and position coaches. Short of a Beilien like cleansing of the coaching staff (Jackson, Funk, Borges at minimum) that is about how far the talent, however many 4-5 stars there are, will be coached up to. Kalis - a consensus can't miss guard - would not be a completely train wreck if coached by a host of other staffs. (yes he is young but extrapolate, he would look like a very average to ok player in another program - not a turnstile)
There are no gimmees outside of Miami of OH and maybe App State next year. That means 10 games are at risk. Not 3, not 5, not 7 like the Wisconsin, OSU, and now MSU's are dealing with....10. If you think @Rutgers is a gimmee now, or NW, or Maryland, you are not watching this team.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:55 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:55 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:06 PM ^
I'm all for it.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:57 PM ^
Brandon needs to own his mistake and get a real fucking coach.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:19 PM ^
There's nothing more Hoke can say in press conferences; he's not going to publicly criticize his coaches, and he shouldn't. With all the pressure that is sure to come in the offseason, it'll be interesting to see if any changes happen.
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:42 PM ^
His childish "Ohio" schtick is going to come off reeeeeal bad this week.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:58 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:00 PM ^
Tragically...with many years of Tennessee to come.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:01 PM ^
, certainly the defense is better, but it ain't looking rosey. I have to think that another 7-5 season, or a couple of 8-4 seasons, with repeat losses to MSU, OSU, and Hoke will be on a major hot seat, if not sent packing altogether. I know that Brandon is a stubborn SOB, and that he firmly believes in Hoke, but he is also a busines guy and, if we continue to seriously underperform, it will affect ticket/merchandise sales, and I would like to think that is something that Brandon will not be all too pleased with.
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:45 PM ^
Hoke's seat is already warm. I think just one more mediocre season is going to make it pretty hot. That's why I think next season is a make it or break it season for Hoke. He needs to at least be competitive with OSU and MSU and hit 9 or 10 wins.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:01 PM ^
to play soft and play not to lose. Many blame Borges regarding play calling. Though there is some merit to this claim, it detracts from what the real problem is.
You have a head coach who knows very little about intricacies of successful football. He cannot make judgments on whether line play is good or bad and certainly does not know enough to make adjustments. He MUST rely on the people he hired to make the calls for him.
Thus, there is no identity to this team. He has many good players but they each seem to be playing at different levels at different times.
Hoke is not the man to bring them together and create a culture of tough efficient football. HE DOES NOT KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT FOOTBALL TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS. He is nothing more than a symbolic head of a failing program.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:13 PM ^
I'm not sure what you're talking about with respect to playing soft and playing not to lose. That happened in the Penn State game but not really other games. This one was more lost because of crippling offensive incompetence.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:04 PM ^
This kind of a season is what Brandon hung a Michigan coach, RR, out to dry for, while he flailed around trying to find a replacement. Whatever you may think of RR (I thought he was a good coach who needed a better D coordinator), that was no way to handle it.
He was talking this week about this still being possibly a terrific season. The man's eyeballs are way too far up his ass to see what is going on.
As long as Dave Brandon is the athletic director, the University of Michigan will not have an elite coaching staff. Get used to it.
Put yourself in a really good coach's shoes. Would you want to take this program over and work for this guy? He's a horse's ass.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:07 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:08 PM ^
with the Iowa loss and what likely will be a major spaking by OSU, I am not sure if he can say it now with a serious face) to save his face. He hired Hoke et al., and does not want to look like a gump for the hire. That being said, he seems like a bright guy and, I am certain, he realizes that we suck and that, perhaps, there may not be any improvement with the current dirty dozen of coaches. Like I said previously, I cannot imagine him standing behind Hoke et. al. with another 7-5 season, or a several more seasons of 7-5/8-4. With the bowl game, we will likely finish 7-6. I hate to admit it, but Dantonio/Narduzzi are infinitely better than what we have at Michigan right now, and that is just not right.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:19 PM ^
Prior to the NW game last week, DB was interviewed before the game by Doug Karsh. DB attributed the problems to:
- Youth on the OL
- Poor execution by everyone on offense
Not a word about coaching. Not one. He said he's been visiting the practices and that he looks for:
- Are the players and coaches working hard? (DB answer: yes)
- Have they "given up"? (DB answer: no)
Unless he's just waiting until after next week to declare open season on the Al & Darrell Show, I see little likelihood of any significant changes coming.
Maybe DB is doing his best William Clay Ford impersonation. In which case, I think I need a drink.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:23 PM ^
Do you seriously think our AD is going to publicly trash our coaching staff? And during the season, no less?
November 24th, 2013 at 8:08 AM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 6:14 PM ^
I agree with you on MSU staff and you have to not ignore their offensive staff. The team was HORRID the first 3 games of the year. Musical chairs at QB, below average running hame and WRs who dropped 1/3rd of their passes. They now look not only competent but PRETTY DARN GOOD. That is being lost in the Dantonio Narduzzi love. They have developed BOTH sides of the ball leaps and bounds.
One can make a viable case it is the 2nd best staff in the Big 10.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:22 PM ^
I agree, but I would add that it seems to me that our Athletic Department is a bloated, decrepit beached whale filled with people who have deemed themselves too good for outsiders. They treat people like crap, unless they can meet some BS standard of "Michiganess." They spend all their time talking about the past and what Michigan is. And now we've got a football program lead by big talk about the past and a Michigan potemkin village on the field.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:21 PM ^
Would you want to take this program over and work for this guy? He's a horse's ass.If an AD who gives his coaches one of the largest assistant-coaching budgets in the country and won't publicly criticize their performance is a horse's ass, what kind of AD would you want?
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:00 PM ^
I'd want an AD who didn't fire a coach who improved every year.
That aside, taking over now would mean working for a guy who fires his coach every three years. There's always someone who will take the paycheck but attracting a good coach if Hoke is fired isn't going to happen.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:22 PM ^
Hoke was handed over TWICE the money to hire a staff if not more than Rich was given and yet he still has 7 wins in year 3.
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:08 PM ^
Related question- How much salt is going to be in our wounds if RR actually beats Oregon today?
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:36 PM ^
Who cares if RR's Arizona team beats oregon, seriously.
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:56 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:25 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:41 PM ^
3 years is a good evaluation period for coaching. Should you wait 4-5 years and just shit on some poor kids career at Michigan? I'm not saying fire Hoke, Borges or Funk.... ok fire Borges but you should know what you have as a coach by year 3. If it's moving in the right direction then cool steady as she goes but, if it's not fire them and get someone else. It's better to fire a bad coach after 3 years than it is to fire a bad coach after 5-6.
November 23rd, 2013 at 8:00 PM ^
I had not thought of the Jones/Brandon comparison before. Now that you mention, it is obvious. and scary.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:03 PM ^
I'm not even worried anymore. If Borges isn't fired this offseason, Hoke and his entire staff will be fired after next year. At least the new coach would have a lot to work with.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:04 PM ^
Yes. We are headed into a Tennessee-like abyss. Err, shit; we're already kinda there.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:04 PM ^
Sort of. Unlike Weis, Hoke isn't a collossal asshole. Not sure who remembers Weis as a coach who "said all of the right things" but your memory is pretty bad. Also, defense has been consistently good under Hoke. The O-line and especially the number of negative plays reminds me a lot of Weis 2007 though.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:08 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:04 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:07 PM ^
To me the biggest problem is that Hoke doesnt think we have a problem. And until the head guy sees we've got serious, major issues on offense nothing is going to happen. That is were DB HAS to stop in and tell him that his offense must be changed......EVEN IF IT MEANS FIRING YOUR BEST FRIEND FOREVER AL.
In all seriousness we are going to find out for real if this really is Brady's "dream job" like he said during his introduction as HC or simply a place to employ his ineffectual cronies.
Time will tell. And soon!
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:10 PM ^
Agree. Hoke ain't that old. He's not retiring if he gets canned from UM so if he hopes UM is his last coaching stop, he better wake up.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:22 PM ^
Because he has refused to throw his players or his coaches under the bus in public criticism and told us that he is going to fire Borges and Funk unless this team gets better next week? Because he has not shared his intimate thoughts about how stupid Al Borges is because our offense is so bad this year? What specific actions do you want him to take to demonstrate that he thinks we have a problem? Pretty obvious to me that he thinks this is something that is handled between the players and coaches on the team, that they all play for each other, and that he is not going to tell us what is being said inside that locker room regarding the offense and the offensive line.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:27 PM ^
LOL....Because Nothing Changes.
If Hoke thought we had a problem I fucking guarentee you our offense would look different - it doesnt. Hoke is absolutely thrilled with his outstanding OC and his fantastic game planning and play calling.....acutal results be damned.