OT: Tigers moves: Garcia for Jose Iglasias, per Danny Knobler
It appears the Tigs are involved in a 3 way trade, Avi Garcia goes to Chitown, Peavy goes to Boston, and Jose Iglasias comes to Detroit, per Danny Knobler on Twitter (among others). Iglacias can play SS, 2B, 3B and is hitting 330 in 200+ at bats in the Bigs. Locked in for a while, until 2019.
EDIT: appears Brayan Villarreal is also included, going to Boston
Side note - AP reports Biogenesis suspensions will be announced on Friday, Peralta to accept it.
but I'm curious how the rank and file Tiger fans will react to an all glove light hitting SS. Maybe Jhonny's range won't look so bad when Iglesias is hitting 240 with no power and no walks.
If the rest of the lineup is doing well then there won't be a problem. If the lineup struggles...
Jhonny's range will always look bad to those that have eyes.
It won't be a problem but I think people will think it is. Just a guess
Yep the message boards (not here, elsewhere) are all giddy about the upgrade on defense but just wait until the first tight game where Avila and Iglesias are up back to back with a guy on 2nd and 1 out. The howling should be epic. Maybe the guy will be a .260 hitter after .200 in the minors but the track record of that happening is not great. People tend to remember strikeouts and groundouts a lot more than slick defense that saved a run.
.257 in the minors
We weren't going to find anyone who could replace Peralta's offensive production at a reasonable price. At least we got a guy who by all accounts is a stud defensive shortstop to soften the blow. Garcia is a tough loss, but even he is far from a guarantee. Fair trade given the circumstances.
My friend in Boston (and one of the most astute baseball people I know) just texted me with this to say about Iglesias:
"I LOVE him. Ozzie Smith. Maybe the best devensive SS I have ever seen in a Sox uniform. He'll never hit a HR--but .275, will bat 9th and be the best defensive SS in baseball."
Listen, I liked Garcia's potential but Ozzie is a first-ballot Hall of Famer w/ a .260 lifetime batting average. I'll take him.
but how does MLB suspend someone, then, after they appeal, INCREASE the suspension??
That does sound even remotely legal.
MLB has been making this up as they go.
For all we know, Peralta will be suspended for the rest of the season AND the playoffs. MLB doesn't seem to be playing by the rulebook here with their suspensions.
This was probably about as good as the Tigers were going to do. Garcia honestly hadn't shown me the kind of power that made me think he was going to be the answer as a corner OF. At worst, Iglesias can be an all-field SS and hopefully he can just keep his OBP up enough to be useful offensively. If we have to play without Peralta for the rest of the year, Iglesias will be better than Santiago. And even if we don't this is a hedge for Infante not healing up right.
Villarreal is pretty typical of a middle-reliever who has one really good year and then loses it. Too bad, but he can be replaced.
Doesn't James consult for the Sox? That might be why they dumped him. According to James' defensive metrics, Iglesias has been nothing special defensively this season and is barely better than Peralta.
Wonder if that is why they were willing to move him despite the rave reviews of his defense? Maybe he looks better at defense than he really is.
He's played at 3rd base most of the season.
271 innings at 3B, 240 innings at SS.
I guess it is possible that splitting time is keeping him from being comfortable at SS.
completely a sample size issue. You can't use advanced defensive metrics when you only have 240 innings to judge on. It's the same issue as thinking he's a .330 talent hitter because that's what he's hitting this year. He's not a .330 level hitter, nor is he struggling defensively. He probably projects as a .260 type and the best defensive SS in the game. As long as he can maintain near an average level OBP over the course of a year, he'll be great to have in our lineup. Hell, he's SO GOOD defensively, he could probably survive being a bit below average at getting on base.
Not debating James' point, but it's not like they gave him up for nothing, Peavy is a tremendous addition to that rotation. Gotta give talent to get talent
The fact that Peavy is leaving the Central only makes this deal sweeter and I love that, but that does leave the possibility of seeing him in the playoffs.
1) Defensive metrics stink. They aren't nearly as useful as offensive ones yet. I don't buy that Iglesias is no better at defense than Jhonny. Watch that video few posts below. Jhonny can't make those plays. If the metrics don't have Jose better than Jhonny, I can't consider them to be useful. I'm big into offensive metrics too, but I'm still not really sold on any defensive ones yet.
2) They have another stud shortstop prospect (Bogarts I think his name is), making Iglesias expendable. Had to give something up if they wanted Peavy.
Xander Bogaerts is the one you're referring to. Everyone now knows manny machado from Baltimore. Many think Xander can be the same thing for the Sox
Can't debate the awful past but if this sort of thing sets a precident - 50/100/150/lifetime suspensions without even having positive tests in certain cases is certainly getting tough. Rather the league "get tough" from now on than scrape by on the limiting testing done in some other leagues
I see nothing random about them. There is a hell of a lot more urgency in dealing with PED issues with current players than worrying about the status of records set in the past.
There was no rule against roiding when McGwire and Bonds did it. It was against the laws of the USA, but it wasn't against the rules of MLB.
that MLB has on Peralta and some of the others, but I would hope it is more than what was initially reported. Otherwise strong-arming all the players to accept the suspensions, by threatening long suspensions if they try to excercise their right to appeal, seems pretty shady to me.
Given that they felt they had good evidence, and then the guy who actually ran the place started talking, you can be pretty confident their information is good.
Most likely they have records and perhaps even clinical notes. The upside to having a witness corroborate what they have is that the witness can explain what much of the notation means--for example, the various shorthands that can stand in for certain types of drugs, certain methods of administration, and so on.
They probably have, at least, records of drugs being distributed, and perhaps records of recommended treatment plans.
In my experience, where there's smoke like this, there's a raging Santa Ana Wildfire underneath. Peralta's suspension has pretty much been inevitable, and I'm confident that it's justified.
can be 100% confident when we don't know what evidence they actually have. I get the impression that MLB is out to send a message in this case, and I am not sure they neccassarily care about having sufficient evidence on all the players involved. Bosch (the guy running the clinic) is a shady character, I don't think MLB can just take his word at face value. Just because Braun admitted it doesn't give Bosch instant 100% credibility with all the other names.
As far as documents go the initial report said that Peralta's name appeared on one document, in relation to weight loss advice. Obviously, MLB has done some digging since that point, and as i said they better have overwelming evidence on every one of the guy's that is going to be suspended before they potential impact playoff races. Regardless, strong arming players with threats to make a deal is still shady to me.
I'm not 100% confident.
I wasn't 100% sure Lance Armstrong doped until he actually confessed to it, either. I was still pretty convinced of it, though.
Dude's got some moves
Guy has a very interesting throwing motion on many of those plays - it's like he's throwing a side arm riseball. Totally unconventional, but it had me fascinated because he was so accurate with it. Still, Prince may need some time to adjust to receving those throws over at first I'm thinking.
nailed it with that comment about Bonds and McGwire exmtroj.
They got away with grand larceny while the little fellas like Peralta get nailed.
But then...neither are ever going to the HOF like they both assumed they would either.
I wonder if the Tigers plan on bringing up Castelleanos sometime soon. The added offense from Castelleanoes, and improved defense from Igesias might be just enough to offset the loss of Peralta's bat.
Also, maybe a change of scenery will do wonders for Igesias
Iglesias can hit like Polonco when he was with Detroit wouldnt mind this deal. While its sad to see Garcia go I feel good about our SS and 2nd base in the future Perez Iglesias might be good tamdem in the future.
If this guy is as good a defender as some seem to think, I like this, we need defense. I know Peralta is not a terrible defender, but in general the Tigs D is not that good, I love the idea of having a great defensive shortstop. I think that's one of our biggest problems, not just defense but lack of fundamental play, good baserunning, hitting for average, etc. Some of the clips in that video were pretty exciting. I didn't look up the numbers, but all these naysayers pointing to the '.200' average ... .257 is not .200.
Still need bullpen help though.
What do you think they need in the bullpen? I think they could use a lefty, but the back end is looking pretty good with Smyly-Veras-Benoit now. Hopefully Rondon continues to develop and Dotel is throwing now so he could be back...I think this bullpen can work it out
average? The Tigers have the highest batting average in the AL at .280.
Also that .257 average is his minor league career batting average, that typically doesn't translate to .257 at the MLB level. I am not questioning his defensive ability, but his minor league offensive numbers are somewhat concerning.
Everybody's right, my issue with the fundamentals comment is probably more of an anectodal, touchy-feely thing. I don't have any numbers, sometimes watching them I just wish they relied less on power hitters, and more on manufacturing runs. Having said that, I love prince and miggy as much as the next guy, and to be fair, Cabrera makes some great plays out there, I don't know what his advanced stats say.
When it comes to the bullpen, I hadn't seen the Veras trade when I posted that, so I'd agree, with Dotel on the mend, it seems to be shaping up.
Peralta, and am pissed that he will be gone.
Right now though, Tiger fans should be more worried about the health of one Miguel Cabrera.
That has to be a far bigger concern than who plays SS right now.
You can pretty much bet that with an off day on Thursday, Cabby won't be in the line-up this afternoon.
The Tigers will be fine as long as they don't dump Cameron Maybin.
I'm okay with giving up Cameron Maybin FOR THE RIGHT PRICE.
Andrew Miller is untouchable, however.
The Tigers basically traded a potential future mainstay right fielder for a potential future mainstay SS. Depending upon how they develop as hitters, that's probably at worst a wash.
What is more important to the Tigers, though, is winning now. Specifically, while Mike Illitch is still alive. I don't think there's any question that the wallet is open and the objective is to win a World Series for Illitch, and with that in mind this is a great move.
While the Tigers could use a bit more bat in left field, the forthcoming Peralta suspension (and the presence of Cleveland so close on the team's heels) made getting a stopgap SS a priority, and they got not only a strong fielder but a promising young player with serious future upside. And, if the rumors are true, Peralta will be back with a few games left in the season, just enough time to warm his bat back up--and then, suddenly, there is infield depth.
Meanwhile, by the time Garcia would be ready to be a starting OF, the window will be closing on the Tigers. Now is the time.
probably one of the top 5 or 6 GMs in all of baseball