OT: Junior Seau suffered CTE, is football too dangerous?
So CTE is chronic brain damage and can be caused by repeated blows to the head as small as what a typical OL or DLinmen go through on every play. I ask this because the typical argument is that these guys are getting paid millions of dollars and are making a decision. I have two problems with this argument: 1) This sort of damage is accumulated over a lifetime, plenty of youth football players could easily be permanently damaging their brains with no real knowledge of the dangers and we probably never hear about their health issues. 2) Football is borderline exploitive. The number of professional football players from disadvantaged backgrounds is disproportianetly high. For a lot of these players something like football is the only way out of a bad neighberhood. The choice between a potentially short life in poverty where statistics say there is a greater than 50% you are going to be dead or in jail by 50 or football where you could damage your brain for life by 35 does not seem like a legitimate choice.
I'm not sure how I feel about football right now but I know the billions of dollars it generates is going to keep players futrue health low on the priority list. The board seemed kind of slow and I thought this could be a legitimate discussion. If people don't think so I apologize.
January 11th, 2013 at 9:00 AM ^
Wanna link some studies? Or can you just deduce a priori as a hockey fan that nothing you like is unacceptably dangerous?
January 10th, 2013 at 11:45 PM ^
January 11th, 2013 at 12:02 AM ^
There's no helmet invention you can make that's going to stop your brain from bouncing around inside of your skull. With the speed and force of the hits at the NFL level, the helmet can only help so much. Its like an air bag. They're great when you get hit going 35mph. But when you're going 80? Not going to help out a lot.
January 11th, 2013 at 12:24 AM ^
Because then they'll just keep using their heads as projectiles.
January 10th, 2013 at 11:55 PM ^
January 11th, 2013 at 12:04 AM ^
January 11th, 2013 at 12:31 AM ^
January 11th, 2013 at 12:40 AM ^
January 11th, 2013 at 1:05 AM ^
January 11th, 2013 at 12:05 AM ^
The point of this debate isn't the health of nfl players, its the thousands of other people who play football too without getting paid millions. And its not about banning football, its about having a discussion to see if we can reduce risk.
And people need to stop bringing up other jobs like policemen. Those jobs are a necessary part of a functioning society, football is not. Furthermore I'm sure if you could change rules around how fires and firemen interact that made being a fireman safer most people would support that, we can do that with football and its a discussion I think is worth having, you clearly don't.
January 11th, 2013 at 12:27 AM ^
January 11th, 2013 at 12:38 AM ^
I get what you are saying but for me this isn't about seau in particular. Its using this news to spark a debate. The only way they can detect CTE is when people donate their brains, very few people do this and a lot of them are NFL players. Maybe this means CTE isn't actually caused by football and its just a poor sample or maybe it means that this is a large scale problem than can start as early as high school football but we don't know because we can't test it. I don't know enough about the science to answer those questions, I just want there to be a debate so somebody who can answer them is prompted to continue looking.
January 10th, 2013 at 11:56 PM ^
A lot of simple things could make football a lot safer. I'm in favor of a strict 3 mph on-field speed limit.
January 10th, 2013 at 11:58 PM ^
Why don't we just have the players wear bras? And instead of helmets they can wear tinfoil hats, because, you know, it's the future! Then we'll have a balloon instead of a ball, and whoever catches the balloon, tries to run while all the other players hug. How about we call it Sarcastacall?
January 11th, 2013 at 12:04 AM ^
One of my favorite South Park episodes.
January 11th, 2013 at 12:01 AM ^
January 11th, 2013 at 6:37 AM ^
Be careful because your argument is basically that since risk exists, and everything has risk, then everything should be allowed.
There are risks that can be avoided or mitigated or regulated.
January 11th, 2013 at 12:07 AM ^
I'm not sure there IS a way to make a helmet that can really protect you from the repeated blows to the head that someone like a lineman takes. You might be able to make something better that could mitigate the big blows--maybe something that actually had an exterior shell that slightly crumpled and absorbed some of the impact, but I think studies are saying that they are more concerned with the repeated small blows than they are with the one big knockout blow.
Of course, any helmet that wasn't rigid and was designed to take damage would be astronomically expensive for any high school program to use because they would go through so many of them, so that would probably never work.
January 11th, 2013 at 12:06 AM ^
32,367 people died in motor vehicles last year, should we ban driving?
January 11th, 2013 at 2:08 AM ^
Is the risk of football an absolutely necessary part of life as a human being? I would say no, so I'm not sure the comparison is entirely accurate.
January 11th, 2013 at 9:53 AM ^
One could very easily say the same thing about motor vehicles, then. Is the risk of motor vehicle accidents an absolutely necessary part of life as a human being?
Many other cultures would seem to say No, as well as many individuals in our very own culture.
January 11th, 2013 at 12:11 AM ^
Did I ever say ban football? There are plenty of laws around car regulations and speed limits and other driving laws that make driving safer. There can be laws and other regulations that help make football safer, I believe we should talk about possibilites because despite loving football there is something about paying to see large men attempt to hit each other as hard as possible for my enjoyment that seems a little off to me.
January 11th, 2013 at 12:13 AM ^
January 11th, 2013 at 12:15 AM ^
I'm glad that rather than attempting to have a discussion you chose to misrepresent what my post says that you could come across ignorant and bitter, solid debating skills you got there, I bet you win a lot of arguments.
January 11th, 2013 at 12:51 AM ^
January 11th, 2013 at 7:36 AM ^
because I'm having a hard time answering without insulting you. Saying that all the facts are out now is one of those most absurd statements I've ever seen on this board. Do you have any idea of why Seau's family wanted those tests done? The fact that these tests can now only be done post-mortem greatly limits how much we do know about CTE. There is a tremendous difference between knowing that a risk exists and quantifying it.
January 11th, 2013 at 10:45 AM ^
You're ak47. This is getting ridiculous. How many posters have multiple accounts on here?
With reference to the discussion, I feel like the people who are dismissing this so easily are being extremely obtuse. I am in the camp that is in favor of more research and people being given this kind of information before they allow their children to play. It's easy to say that people should know that playing a contact sport is bad for you. I understood that I could get hurt or have my bell rung. If I would have known that there could be degenerative effects that would impact my entire life then I never would have played. I'm sure that many fall in that camp too.
January 11th, 2013 at 12:14 AM ^
We don't allow kids to drive... cars and driving are heavily regulated.
January 11th, 2013 at 12:09 AM ^
Despite the downvotes, I think it's a fair question. But I was an art major, so what the hell do I know about safety?
January 11th, 2013 at 1:14 AM ^
were you actually an art major? I would never have guessed that based on your posts (please don't think I mean anything negative by that, just surprising for whatever reason). Very cool if so.
January 11th, 2013 at 1:47 AM ^
I actually was. Went to undergrad with a double major in both music performance and art. Unfortunately, two years in the Middle East can really screw with your head. I'm not the same person anymore, which is why I generally come across as a HUGE asshole on this site.
Also, I don't know what TGOY why means, but if it is what I think it is, you are sorely mistaken. I am not The God of Yodeling.
January 11th, 2013 at 1:48 AM ^
It wasn't so much asshole/non-asshole; you just seem like a guy pretty well trained in forming/making/defending arguments. I would have pegged you for philosophy, maybe English or something else heavy on rhetoric and logic. Lawyer would have been another obvious choice, although that didn't cross my mind until just now.
Sorry to hear you feel you've changed in a way you don't like, by the way.
Edit: Damn, and here I was thinking you were the resident Yodeling guy...
January 11th, 2013 at 2:07 AM ^
I applied to law school after I came back, and I'm in my third year as we speak. The change wasn't horrible, just different. I'm much more aggressive now, and less laid back/carefree. Both have their advantages. Honestly, one of the worst consequences is that I'm so intensely loyal to Michigan now that I get horribly, irrationally upset after every loss, as you have probably noticed. I absolutely despise a Michigan loss. Few things make put me in such a bad mood.
January 11th, 2013 at 5:24 AM ^
Sorry if I missed the sarcasm...but TGOY is you! It's an acronym (I found this kinda funny so I had to reply)
January 11th, 2013 at 12:18 AM ^
I haven't chimed in on the blog in awhile but I am so passionate about this subject that I feel the need tonight.
Personal story time so skip if you think it might be lame. I am a 33 year old man who started playing football in 5th grade and ended after a 4-year career at a small DIII school here in Michigan. I was a 3-year letterman and played those three years on the line. I recently have battled a bought of depression, mood-swings and memory loss, although the memory loss has been a longer issue than depression or mood-swings. The depression has required meds, but the funny thing is that I have what one would call a perfect life. Smokin' hot and smart wife who is the bread-winner, fulfilling job, two beautiful and healthy kids and not much debt other than student loans and a mortgage.
Depression happens for many reasons but it really does not run in my family and again, I have no reason to hate life or be disinterested. I have always been a jovial guy but over the last year or so my moods have swung. Like previously stated, my memory has always been weak but I have always chalked that up to being lazy about details.
What I am getting at is that I believe this Jr. Seau thing is no joke. The game we love, play, and worship needs to change. I don't want to lose this beautiful sport. I learned 95% about being a husband, father and man on the football field with my coaches and teammates. However, we have baby #3 on the way and if it is a boy(other two are girls), I will not let him play football. That kills me to write, but something needs to change.
Again, I may not have CTE and what we know about it is very little, but you are lying to yourself if you think collisions in the game of football aren't damaging to the brain.
If there are any Dr.'s out there that would like to use my brain for scans I would be more than happy to donate my time and energy to help the progression of education with CTE and other collision related brain diseases. I would, however, prefer the procedure where you can keep me alive.
Blessings
January 11th, 2013 at 12:21 AM ^
Thanks for sharing, I'm hoping that people realize this is a call for a discussion not a dismisal of football, maybe I could have left out the part about exploitation because that rubs some people the wrong way but your story is why if nothing else there needs to be more research. Good luck and congrats on the upcoming child.
January 11th, 2013 at 12:41 AM ^
January 11th, 2013 at 1:44 AM ^
I appreciate your insights into this topic.
January 11th, 2013 at 12:22 AM ^
Football was more dangerous than it is now. Knocking guys out cold was celebrated, and targeting hits to the head, and injuring guys out of the game was the general idea. Just looking at the highlight videos the other day of The Hitman John Lynch and i'm saying to myself: "that's a fine" "and that's a fine" "that one's a suspension" "oooh, that's a fine" yet he played only recently, and was one of my favorite players. Everybody used to lead with the helmet. Now you can't because we know how dangerous that can be, and the league penalizes such hits. Studies show a good portion of damage incurred comes from high school helmet bashing during games, and amongst teammates on the sidelines. Awareness campaigns are reducing that through education as well.
January 11th, 2013 at 12:28 AM ^
Some of the comments of the 'it's their choice', 'they get paid to batter their bodies', etc. is ignoring an obvious problem. Nobody playing football in the 70s, 80s, 90s knew how bad the risk of repeated head trauma leading to serious mental health issues was. A much larger percentage of the population smoked cigarettes until repeated research showed just how hazardous to your health smoking can be. Now, fewer and fewer people smoke because of said health risks.
Claiming nothing is wrong and nothing needs to change because people choose to play football dismisses the fact that few people realized anything was risky about playing football outside of the various physical maladies (and even those stories about guys in their 50s with degenerative knees, hips, etc. are somewhat recent). Football is a dangerous, dangerous game and medicine is allowing us to see exactly how dangerous it is.
It won't matter ten years from now, but I guarantee you more and more parents aren't going to let kids play football. 2000 years ago, the greatest civilization on Earth thought forcing two people to fight to the death was acceptable. Now, not so much.
I don't want to see football die, but there has to be a push for better helmet technology, weight restrictions, something to combat the growing size and speed of modern players.
January 11th, 2013 at 12:40 AM ^
have you seen todays helmets? technology has come a long way in the last 10 years.
January 11th, 2013 at 12:43 AM ^
who knows what hits actually casues CTE. Is it the big hits? or is it the tackles and contact on every other play. Theres no way to know what the exact cause is so theres no way to find the cure. I think there was a article a few weeks ago that said that the brain rolling around in the skull actually caused more damge than the hits.
Honestly the NFL doesnt give two craps about the players. If they did they wouldnt allow them to wear 15 year old schutts just because they have better sightlnes.
http://www.riddell.com/shop-riddell/helmet/riddell-360-youth-helmet/
January 11th, 2013 at 12:48 AM ^
January 11th, 2013 at 1:02 AM ^
thats the bullshit thing. whens the last time you saw a flag thrown for a MLB hitting the center helmet to helmet? The NFL wants to act like they're doing something. They penalize the the big hits on the WR's. How many Wr's have been diagnosed with CTE compared to lineman? The fact is that the OL and DL take on the most damage.
I would bet in arena football that the CTE cases are far fewer just because of the style of play.
January 11th, 2013 at 12:50 AM ^
January 11th, 2013 at 12:59 AM ^
I tired of this subject just like im tired of people pretending to care about the health of people they don't know. Let people be informed and then let them live with the consequences of their own decisions good or bad. Anything less is just another excuss to tell people how to live their lives because you think you know better and you know what's good for them.
January 11th, 2013 at 1:06 AM ^
i think of demolition man everytime this subject come up..
January 11th, 2013 at 9:18 AM ^
As do I and that is all I have to add to this subject. I played, loved it and am excited to watch it every year.