OT: Sparty's view on recruiting (Spartanfreude)
This is linked to in the B1G lunch links on ESPN, but Joe Rexrode comments back on feedback he received from a recent article on the in-state recruiting battles. The comments at the end are pretty good.
http://noise.typepad.com/hey_joe/2011/05/more-on-my-favorite-topic.html
My favorite
"Ever notice how Michigan doesn't really ever lose? They just have down years or the other team cheated.
This is what bugs me about recruiting: the whole "Michigan mystique", block M, trying to coopt good(?) men in the state of Michigan as being "Michigan Men", winningest program in history while we count victories we had against highschools in the 1900s stuff is just a big pile of crap to this Spartan. Along with the loud-mouthed alumni and non-alumni that make up their fan base. So it bugs me that high school recruits are still buying that stuff hook, line and sinker. I guess I shouldn't really expect 3 straight victories over them and a Big Ten Championship to change that."
but in true spartan let down fashion after beating us they lost the next two games.
Michigan's fans tend to be a pretty arrogant and entitled group. Look at the meltdowns over the past few years and people currently arguing that OSU's dominance over the past decade is due to Tressel's cheating. (Not saying that the meltdowns and cheating accusations are wrong, just that we Michigan fans tend to be arrogant, whiny, and entitled drama queens when things aren't going well.)
There isn't a fanbase in the country (heck, in the world) that doesn't say/do those things. We are no different than anyone else. Name me one "reasonable-minded" fanbase and I'll direct you to their Rivals/Scout board during the season.
I'll admit that I haven't done any thoughtful side-by-side comparisons of fanbases, but it's just been my experience that Michigan fans tend to skew more towards the whiny entitled side of things. Other fanbases may be obnoxious (e.g., MSU) or really aggressive (e.g., OSU), but arrogance/entitlement seems to describe Michigan better than most, in my opinion.
I'm not saying Michigan fans are worse than other fans. Just that we are a somewhat special breed of annoying. That's the Michigan difference.
Michigan never loses, they just run out of time.....
I always liked that one.
...there's extra time.
yea there's a difference between those two things (saying you had a down year vs. saying the other guy cheated) ... the cheating thing is an excuse. the down year thing is just an acknowledgement that "yes we are not very good. but we might be soon." Magnus is right.
we ought to do less of the excuses-making, but we should be allowed to take comfort in the fact that we usually aren't that bad!
as a whole, but the Wolverine fans I hang with are very realistic about not playing well enough to win, making mistakes, not playing hard enough, or simply getting screwed over (insert interference no call and clock-manager-spy examples). Every fanbase has some whiners, and arrogant fans too. I guess I have not experienced UM fans to be extraordinarily arrogant or whining. Strong programs and winning traditions...we should hate to lose. However, my bunch tends to acknowledge realistically why loses occur when they do. I just don't share your opinion, but I sure am aware of your opinion as 'convential wisdom.'
Go Blue
Refs get blamed a lot. But that's mainly because hockey refs suck.
I think MSU has this opinion more than others, because for twenty years, up until the last 3, they're wins over us HAVE involved something controversial, to complain about...and always in their favor. In 1990 they tripped Desmond with no call that cost us the win. In 1995 they marked a first down when the ball was short by almost a yard on 4th down. 2001, the clock. (Heck, go back to '84 when they beat the worst Michigan team in forever back then with an injured QB).
In 1993 they kicked our inexperienced O-Line's ass and won. And in 1999 they legitimately won. (Though I'm sure there was some complaining that "if had just kept Brady in the whole game...". But they simply outscored us). Other than that, they haven't really one much, so the ones that did happen seem kinda tainted. And the one bad break they got vs. us, in 2008, they WON the game. (Which could be offset by 2005, where they had a tuck rule pass ruled a fumble for TD in a game we won).
I don't think you'll find too many OSU games where the fans say "we were screwed". In 2002, with the Braylon offensive interference that was a bit shaky, but not generally. Because the freaky stuff always seems to happen in the MSU game. (Used to in the ND games too...but that hasn't really been as true for years).
Whats wrong with saying we never really lose?
Ultimately, Sparties like this one can't deal with the fact that UM is simply a waaaaaaaay better school, and because of that, they try to diminish every other advance UM has over Sparty. This Sparty would like to let recruits know, all those wins in the early 1900's don't affect him today. Ok. But the fact that a UM degree has national prestige and can get jobs anywhere in the country including NY, DC and LA, whereas an MSU degree it met with "hmm isnt that a basketball school? no-- an ag school?"
Everytime I meet someone who says they are from MSU, I have a standard retort -- "Well, if you couldn't get into a good college, MSU was a good alternative." [Yeah, I've said that to total strangers on airplanes, in hotels, at my kid's softball game last weekend, etc.]
Usually, it's met with a half-grin, because they expect that out of UM grads. And they can't argue.
Since this was about head-to-head recruiting against MSU, let's just go with that comparison.
The fact that you say that to complete strangers really makes me empathize with the way some State people hate M alums.
It probably goes without saying, but of course MSU is a good school, and the quality of education a kid gets is more on him/her than the institution.
That half-grin you referred to was likely a different type of arrogance (as in, man I'm happy alums from my alma mater don't sound like this).
When it comes to MSU if you look at the last four victories against Michigan, the last three were against the worse teams Michigan has ever fielded, and the one before that a decade ago, MSU blatantly cheated.
why do we always brag about beating the JLS teams.
At least from what I've seen, we don't. I mean, you wouldn't brag about beating your little brother at something because it's expected of you anyway.
It pains me that MSU is even relevant enough for us to be worried about what they claim to have won. Who cares? If you did a find and replace to switch MSU and Michigan, this would read like a slightly more sophisticated RCMB thread.
Stop the madness!
As an alum of both schools, it bothers me that this place is starting to read a little like the worst characteristics you see in MSU fans. Yes, some idiots from MSU think UM fans whine between sips of their Bartles and James; some idiots at UM think all MSU fans are uneducated hicks who think Walmart Wolverines is the height of comedy.
MSU has not been relevant in football since before I was born, and no amount of chest-thumping by the Sparty fanbase will change the reality that they are still not relevant despite the first co-B1G championship in 20+ years. At the same time, though, there is no reason to keep posting the rantings of delusional fans just to knock them down again.
Well the one sparty in my family is a country music listening hick that looks like a skinny version of Paul Sr. from orange county choppers.
I'm trying to envision this - and now I just peed myself a little.
May I present to you some recorded victories from Michigan State's glorious past:
1918
21-6 W v Albion
66-6 W v Hillsdale
1925
16-0 W v Adrian
15-13 W v Centre
0-6 L v Lake Forest (non 1A)
1926
9-0 W v Kalamzaoo
7-40 L v Haskell (non 1A)
plus games vs. Adrian, Lake Forest, and Centre
1927
7-24 L to Detroit Mercy
plus games v Kzoo, Cornell (of IOWA), Albion, and Butler
1928
103-0 W v Kzoo
0-2 L to Albion
37-0 W vs Chicago YMCA - I shit you not
1929
59-6 W v Alma
38-0 W v Case (non 1A)
0-25 L v Detroit Mercy
1930 - 4 of their 5 wins were against non-1A opponents and a tie against UD Mercy
1931-wins vs Alma, Cornell of Iowa, Illinois Wesleyan, and 100-0W vs something called Ripon
1933
14-0 W v Grinnell
0-0 T v Carnegie Tech
1934
33-20 W v Grinnell
13-0 W v Carnegie Tech
39-0 W v MAnhattan (non 1A)
1936 - 27-0 W v Wayne State
1938 - includes a win against Santa Clara
1943 - includes a wins against Wayne St and Great Lakes Navy
1944 - includes wins vs Scranton and Wayne St.
http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/MichiganState.htm#2009
Honestly, who cares?
Being a 1928 MSU fan looks like the most bizarre experience.
Don't forget Michigan might have had a few more early victories as well if only our forwards had played better in the 2nd inning, although our goalkeeper didn't allow a single field goal nor try-at-goal all year in 1879, despite our opponents fielding 15 players and that the number of players who died playing football that year was larger than M's total points scored.
We also count a 62-0 victory to open the 1891 season against...Ann Arbor High School.
So.
We also count a 62-0 victory to open the 1891 season against...Ann Arbor High School. So.I think that is kind of the point. Any team playing back then was doing so against the same type of competition.
When we played those teams did we even have Division IA, IAA, II, III? Back then travel was done by train and all the best schools were out east, Harvard, Army, Yale, etc. We couldn't physically get out to play those schools which is why the big ten originally was called the western conference.
In 1973 the NCAA split into Division I, II and III. In 1978, Division I football split into I-A (later FBS) and I-AA (later FCS).
While the split was only formalized in the 1970s, different newspapers/people awarded "Small College National Championships" or "Black College National Championships," etc. So there was still a division between "major" college football and everybody else - it just wasn't formalized until the 1970s. It wasn't until this formalization that the post-season tournaments began at the lower levels.
ALBION REPRESENT!!!
They are the biggest troll fan base on earth and outside of this fan base no one in college football even speaks about them....
I live in Florida now and there are quite of few of MSU fans here and there and they thump their chests like cave man about beating us. One time a Florida fan heard this MSU chump cocking off to me about beating us in a bar and the Florida guy laughed in the guys face and said he didn't even know Michigan St had a football team.
All I have to say is spartina. Last time I use that word Brian neg bombed me into the core of the Earth. Let's see what happens this time.
Man you got them guys real good.
Dude.....you're at -85,000 points. Does it really matter anymore?
My favorite Sparty quote.
"I don't understand all this talk about Hoke and his recruiting dominance in the state of Michigan. Does it even count as dominance if he isn't going up against MD and his staff for most of the recruits. If our staff wasn't focused on out of state prospects then we would be neck to neck with Michigan right now. I think we cooled on guys like Ross and Ojemudia because we are able to get equal or better players from out of state.
Once Hoke recruits nationally like we are doing then I will concede that he is a good recruiter. Hoke hasn't gone head to head with our staff enough to say that he is a great recruiter."
Taken off of a board post on 247sports The Blue Board.
No one really ever seems to understand the Walmart Wolverine comments around here. It's a clever way of phrasing "band wagon fan." It's not born from the misconception that only allumni compose fanbases. It's meant to belittle those who attach themselves to success with no direct claim to the school. The whole point is to weaken shit-talk from non-alumni fans they've endured over the past 3 decades.
Yes, but most people here aren't offended by this "insult". The reason there are so many "Walmart Wolverines" is because Michigan is one of the best institutions of higher learning in the country and has unparalleled football tradition. Basically, we have tons of fans because we're awesome. Why would I be upset about that?
attended school there. This is a good thing. We have a broad base of fans. Actually, the only folks that root for "schools" like MSU did go there. dah
I agree entirely.
Although I was fortunate enough to attend UM, I don't feel the need to look down on people who did not go to college, or who happen to shop at Walmart. Picking on people because Walmart is where they can afford to shop, or because they did not get the same opportunity for education really doesn't impress me. If someone wants to support the mighty UM, that's just fine with me. Shows fine independent thinking on their part . . . ;)
Exactly. Attending Michigan should teach an individual a respect for their fellow man regardless of their income level and educational background. We are all wolverines. No need for the bickering.
I, and many others on this board, have been blessed to attend Michigan and obtain a Michigan degree, and I appreciate those that didn't have that opportunity to support a school as great as Michigan. No matter what your background, you can be a Wolverine.
Except at Michigan-Flint. Screw those guys. ;)
As an alum and a guy who really freaking loves walmart, I think what really bothers the spartans is the general belief that spartans are less intellegent and of a lower moral character than not only wolverines but also the greater population as a whole. This perception did not materialize without abundant anecdotal evidence, but it is a stereotype, and as such can not be applied to the entire student body lest you should be labeled a bigot. Stereotypes are for cognitively lazy people.
I met a spartan alum once, no joke. He's a great roofer and I highly recommend him and no, he doesn't own the company...
Yawn.
Welcome to East Lansing in front of 10,000 alumni and 65,000 pizza delivery drivers.
"Ever notice how Michigan doesn't really ever lose? They just have down years or the other team cheated. This is what bugs me about recruiting: the whole "Michigan mystique", block M, trying to coopt good(?) men in the state of Michigan as being "Michigan Men", winningest program in history while we count victories we had against highschools in the 1900s stuff is just a big pile of crap to this Spartan. Along with the loud-mouthed alumni and non-alumni that make up their fan base. So it bugs me that high school recruits are still buying that stuff hook, line and sinker. I guess I shouldn't really expect 3 straight victories over them and a Big Ten Championship to change that."
And yet, despite all those easy games against high schools at the turn of the century, U-M still ranks #1 for all-time toughest strength of schedule.
My buddy Troy..