Yes, it sucks, but I'll still be rooting for M next year (2020 Roster and Reasons for Optimism)

Submitted by Gulogulo37 on December 3rd, 2019 at 8:25 AM

Like the title says, I'm looking forward to next year because that's what we do. If you don't wanna do that, don't comment. "This is unacceptable. Same shit next year. Blah blah blah." Yes, there are plenty of concerns for next year and the future, but you're not going to share anything insightful or new with that, so don't bother.

I think Michigan should be better next year, and I'm doing it in the format Brian does. I feel like these are rational takes, although some may need a little explanation

 

DEFENSE (more than 11 b/c packages)

CB Ambry = Ambry

CB Gray < Hill

Hill was good, but he wasn't Jourdan Lewis. Gray is by no means a burner, but he has size and length, and his weaknesses seemed to be playing physical against the run and technique in coverage. Those both seem entirely fixable. If he improves both significantly, he'll be as good as Hill. Did Gray get burned by OSU at all? OSU caught a deep pass on him but he was there and just didn't play the ball well. Seems the weaknesses were Hudson and Metellus.

Nickel DJ Turner = Gray

S Hawkins > Hawkins

S Hill > Metellus

Metellus wasn't bad but was not a boring safety versus Indiana and OSU. Dax will still be young, but the potential is through the roof.

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LB McGrone > McGrone

LB Ross > Glasgow

Viper Barrett = Hudson

Hudson also had a bad game against OSU. A very good blizter, but a weakness in more traditional LB roles and sometimes in coverage. I thought I've read Barrett is stronger, but he's only 7 pounds heavier on the roster (207 to 200). Not much game experience as a viper, but he's been around a couple years.

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DT Dwumfour > resorting to a DE

Weird year for Dwumfour. He was injured for a lot of it, and then seemed to be coming on. Someone on Twitter thinks he may have gotten hurt against OSU because he didn't notice him later in the game. Anyone know? In Jdue's Twitter game review, Dwumfour seemed to be doing OK in the 1st half and then it seemed he was gone.

DT 2020 Hinton > 2019 Kemp

Backup DTs 2020 Kemp / Mazi > 2019 Hinton

These are a bit more based on hope than what we've actually seen, but Mazi and Hinton were 2 5-star or near 5-star talents in exactly the worst position on the field for Michigan. We absolutely need them to step up, and they absolutely have the talent to do so. Hinton showed flashes. Mazi started getting in later in the season. Not sure if Kemp will be around, but he should be. Losing him is more troublesome from a numbers perspective than play on the field though anyway.

DE Hutchinson = Hutchinson/Uche/Danna

DE Kemp = Kemp/Uche/Danna

Backup DEs Vilain/Welschof/Upshaw < Uche/Danna

Losing Uche's pass rush is a big one, but he also still didn't even play half of the snaps. It sucks losing Danna as a backup, but he wasn't better than the starters. It's easy to forget Vilain was a top-100 recruit because he's been injured. Seems he was healthy all year, so hopefully he can finally play. If he takes a significant leap he could definitely replace Uche in passing downs. The first sentence of Vilain's recruiting profile, "Luiji Vilain is a prototype edge rusher who packs the letter I into his name four times in eleven characters. Universally hailed by scouting services, Vilain's Army game surge nearly took him to five star status on 24/7." IIRC, Lorenz said the staff was high on Welschof but probably not gonna happen until next year. Obviously he was super raw when he came in.

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Seniors not losing their minds against OSU >>> Losing their minds

Brown = Brown (hopefully more evenly distributed)

Last year was definitely a scheme issue that got exposed too late for Michigan to do anything about. This year it was more personnel-driven. The lack of DTs absolutely killed us against good OLs.

That's quite a few '>' with the loss of Danna and Uche the main '<'. You could argue losing Hill will be bigger. You could argue losing Uche will be bigger, but you could also argue we'll be just as good there, especially if Vilain can stay healthy. Dax, Hinton, and Mazi could take bigger leaps than I posit here.

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OFFENSE

QB McCaffrey = Shea

Shea was throwing very well by the end, but we still sorely missed a functional QB running game. Brian didn't talk about it, but Magnus said Shea missed a lot of opportunities to cut upfield and instead kept trying to get the edge against OSU. Dylan has shown himself to be a more willing runner and has good speed. Hopefully concussions aren't an issue. We still don't really know how good of a passer he is, but he didn't get to be a solid 4 star just by being able to run. He'll have plenty of experience in the system. Of course Milton could get the job, but either way you have to figure the winner will be a good QB.

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RB Charbonnet > Charbonnet

RB Evans >> Tru

RB Haskins = Haskins

RB Turner > fumbling Turner

A lot of people have speculated Charbonnet has been playing hurt, and it's hard to disagree. We were already salivating at the idea of Evans in a Gattis offense. It really sucks Turner had a couple fumbles, and I hope he gets a fresh start in the offseason and doesn't transfer (nothing heard, just depth chart worries). He was faster than the others and ran hard. The fumbles were probably just bad luck.

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I'm assuming only Collins leaves.

WR DPJ = DPJ

WR Bell > Bell

WR Black = Black

WR Cornelius Johnson < Collins

Surely Collins this year is a much better WR than Johnson will be next year. I'm basing this largely off of how Collins was utilized. It's hard to make a comparison with Collins because he was the most talented guy on the offense, made a huge impact when he was targeted...but was usually only targeted a couple times a game. So does it suck to lose Collins? Absolutely. Is 681 yards (800 with PIs?) irreplaceable? Definitely not. Also, Collins didn't always seem to be the most enthusiastic blocker.

SLOT Sainristil/Jackson > Sainristil/Jackson

TE Eubanks = Eubanks

TE All > McKeon

Our TEs have been fine blocking, but man I really wish we had kept Asiasi. All doesn't have his size, but he's talented and seems to love blocking.

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C Ruiz = Ruiz

LT 2020 Mayfield = Runyan

RT Steuber = 2019 Mayfield

LG Whoever < Bredeson

RG Whoever < Onwenu

I have no idea who the guards will be, but the team has a lot of talented bullets in the chamber. They will almost surely be good guards but probably a bit behind this year's guards.

Gattis >>>>>>>>>>>> Gattis

I don't think the personnel will be better next year, but I don't see a drop off, except maybe at WR if there's an exodus. Either way, I think this will be made up and then some by the offense being coherent right from spring practice. They can build off of this year, instead of figuring things out halfway through the season. That should make for a much better offense overall. Yes, things were clicking before The Game, but Michigan needed to do that early in the year to really become an unstoppable TD machine by the end of the year. At the end we were still just starting to get a taste of what they could do with guys like Jackson.

 

OSU being just really really good >> OSU as maybe the best team in 30 years according to SP+

I wasn't as upset about the loss as last year. It shouldn't have been that bad, but OSU is insanely good this year, Michigan was sort of a paper tiger all year on defense without DTs, and the offense needed to do more than just start clicking before OSU.

Bluetotheday

December 3rd, 2019 at 8:43 AM ^

I have been a fan my whole life and will continue to be the rest of it. Come the start of any season, I’ll be just as emotionally invested as I have always been. I only have one gear, and now so does my 8 yr old son 

go fucking blue!  


 

 

swalburn

December 3rd, 2019 at 8:47 AM ^

It sucks we lost, and that OSU is better than us but it could be worse.  ESPN ran an article that we are the 7th best program over the last 5 years and Harbaugh could lose his next 24 games and we would still have a better record in his 7 years than the preceding 7 years.  OSU is just historically great right now with no signs or slowing down.  We are a very good program as it stands.  I wish we were great but I'm excited for Saturday's again which is so much better than what came before Harbaugh.

NeverPunt

December 3rd, 2019 at 11:03 AM ^

Well said. We have a lot to enjoy and look forward to on non-OSU Saturdays every fall and the problem of OSU is not permanent and intractable. It just feels that way.

I said this before the game but the last two years were the largest team talent gap in the Habaugh era per 247 between OSU and Michigan. They were 121.04 and 120.16 points better as a roster than us in 2018/2019. That's not the be-all end-all but it is significant and you saw the effects of that on the field in myriad ways. The closest gap was 2016 (49.68 points better than us) Coincidence? I don't think so. 

We need to continue to improve in recruiting - it doesn't have to be at OSU's level necessarily, but it needs to be closer and we need to build depth at each position with 4 star talent. We can't have holes at spots like DT and CB and we need to improve depth. O-Line is a good example of what recruiting needs to look like at every position. It's not  "elite" but we've brought in guys who are good enough and we have a lot of them now.

You can beat a team with far better talent if they overlook you and you don't get their best game, but we'll never get that with OSU. You can outscheme them but then you need to execute almost flawlessly which is a difficult and random thing in many ways. It's the Jimmies and Joes and the Xs and Os. If we close the talent gap by half, we change the dyanmics of the OSU game. Instead of them picking which of our weakness to exploit, they're struggling to exploit weaknesses consistently and our guys are able to actively disrupt what they're trying to do. 

Sideline

December 3rd, 2019 at 12:04 PM ^

This is the best post I’ve read in the last 4 months on this site. 

These were some of Urban’s better classes WITHOUT adding Fields. Then they get the possible top pick in the 2021 draft at QB free agency? 

During that same period Michigan had recruiting that looks like: 

2015– National: 37, Conference: 5

2016– National: 8, Conference: 2

2017– National: 5, Conference: 2

2018– National: 22, Conference: 3

2019– National: 8, Conference: 1(!!)

Every single year mentioned, OSU was above us, minus 2019. Those rankings are all WITHOUT the transfers or Solomon, Walker, etc. So these classes are inflated ^^^

lhglrkwg

December 3rd, 2019 at 11:32 AM ^

It's funny how the internal and external takes flipped this year. Previously it seemed like we defended Harbaugh against all the stupid NFL rumors and now it's Michigan fans frothing at the mouth and everyone nationally is kind of like "hm.....Michigan is good"

To me it boils down to this: I want Michigan to win a national title. What are the best odds of getting there? Press on with Don Brown (who I pray figures out some way to slow down Day) and a quickly improving Gattis offense? Or roll the dice with a new coach and start over again? It seems to me that we are currently a top 10 program and our odds of improving from here with Harbaugh are much higher than going with new blood. Or conversely, the odds the program gets worse over the next few years seem far higher with a new hire vs. Harbaugh. Obviously you could list several ways we need to improve under Harbaugh, but I still prefer that route

BBQJeff

December 3rd, 2019 at 3:28 PM ^

How many years ago did Nebraska fire their head coach after a 9-3 season with the rationale that isn't good enough?   Since then they haven't even sniffed 9 wins.   I've been disappointed in Harbaugh overall but I'm not ready to fire him because he can't get over the 8-10 win regular season hump.  

UofM Die Hard …

December 3rd, 2019 at 4:02 PM ^

Good on you!  

 On Saturdays, Im now in the mode of expecting to win (other than those sum b's down south) ...and when we lose im like ... wtf guys?  That is nice to have again....been a while since I/We have had that feeling. 

My gut says we start beating those top 10-15 teams on the road more often than not going into next year and beyond...the offense is looking good and I hope we can keep the continuity on the staff.  And weirdly enough the Indiana game sealed that thought for me..and 3 qtrs of Penn State game.  When's the last time we went into bloomington against a team that always plays us close, they had a good team this year, and we stomped them.  Lots of positives and Im pumped to see this team go on the road and do that same shit to other teams. 

 

mrkid

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:24 AM ^

Some people like football more than basketball and still want to discuss football, seeing how the regular season ended just 3 days ago, with one more game still to be played. Everybody doesn't have to move on. You don't have to read or comment on football topics.

I enjoyed this topic as I like to think about what the team might be like next year and hearing other peoples thoughts and this one was well done.

The Mad Hatter

December 3rd, 2019 at 8:49 AM ^

I'm with you OP for the most part.  I don't subscribe to emoBrian's thinking that OSU is some unstoppable juggernaut that we have no chance of competing with.  Our 2019 class was ranked about 10 spots higher than theirs, although the reverse is true for 2020.

Two things I think we need, in the short term at least.

1.  A proper WR coach.  We have talented guys playing the position that drop the ball, frequently, and at critical times.  More so than last year at least when they had an actual coach.

2.  A different DC.  Last season OSU scored more points against us than they ever had before.  Brown spends the year thinking about how to prevent that from happening, and what do we get?  OSU beating us by a bigger margin than 2018.

I still think Don Brown is an excellent coach, but he plays with fire and we've been burned too many times now.  OSU in particular seems to have him figured out, given Day's history with him and two of our defensive coaches telling all of his secrets and tendencies.

mGrowOld

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:07 AM ^

Down here in Cleveland the local sports station 92.3 the Fan spent from 8:00 to 8:30am mocking Brian's post and mocking the idea our football players were somehow intellectually superior to OSU's because Field takes on-line classes.

Their basic take was "the team and the fan base have given up" and they encouraged Michigan to leave the B1G and join the Ivy league where we'd be more at home.

Cam

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:14 AM ^

It's not that our players are intellectually superior; it's that eliminating any pretense of academic integrity may be attractive to elite athletes who have no interest in education, thereby providing a competitive advantage over schools like Michigan. I wouldn't expect a Cleveland radio station to understand it though. 

The Homie J

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:46 AM ^

The majority sure have.  Taking about paying players, our guys have to go to class, too big a gap in talent, etc.  It's fucking disgusting how weak minded our fanbase is and I really hope this mentality isn't reflected inside the walls of Schembechler Hall.  We're a good game plan and few more playmakers away from taking the W.  

Sure would be nice if someone on the team or staff would give us a Jim Tressel moment and proclaim that next year is where this madness ends and that we're doing everything we can to turn it around.

michgoblue

December 3rd, 2019 at 10:18 AM ^

"We're a good game plan and few more playmakers away from taking the W."

Yeah, because these last two games against OSU were so close.  We are further from "taking the W" then we have ever been.  OSU is seriously just on a different level.

Also, while I agree with you that we need "a few more playmakers," isn't that what the people talking about paying players, online classes, talent gap, etc. are talking about?  The reality is that we don't - and won't - have a few more playmakers than OSU because, if it's possible, their recruiting is GETTING EVEN BETTER of late while ours seems to be slowing down a bit.  

As for the game plan, our offensive game plan was just fine.  We put up a decent number of points both years.  Game planning isn't going to get our WR to actually catch the ball or our OL to block better.  Even on D, not sure what plan is going to stop the athletes that OSU has - their QB can throw and is fast, their WR are freak athletes, their RB is a heisman candidate and their OL gives all of those parts plenty of time to work.  

The Mad Hatter

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:45 AM ^

It should be mocked.  It's a loser's attitude.  If OSU has certain structural advantages over our program, maybe we should figure out how to overcome them instead of taking our ball and going home.

I didn't read the front page until I was home from work yesterday, and I certainly didn't read 400 comments, but what I did read was infuriating.

SituationSoap

December 3rd, 2019 at 11:22 AM ^

Those structural advantages are cheating, pure and simple. Overcoming those advantages means either cheating as well (and being better at it than them) or accepting that we're going to lose a whole bunch.

 

Ohio State will do anything to win. If you want to overcome that, you need to be willing to do the same.

 

And I mean anything. In the past ten years, OSU, PSU and MSU have all been hit with major sexual assault scandals. For PSU and MSU, they fired people responsible. For OSU, they sent one of the people responsible to congress.

 

This is not a thing you solve with bluster and hard work. 

The Mad Hatter

December 3rd, 2019 at 11:41 AM ^

Ok, say they cheat.  And lets even assume they've cheated for the last 20 years.  Why then did Hoke coached teams almost beat them so many times?  How is it that we almost beat them in 2016 and would have again in 2017 if anyone other than JOK was our QB.

Has their roster massively improved over the past 2 years?  Have they changed their PED regimen?  Or are we simply being out worked and out coached?

Mgoczar

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:59 AM ^

Taking online classes is not bad but Fields is barely on campus. Thats a pretense of a student right there. And my translation of him saying Michigan cares less was this: "Hey I take online classes, I could take them at mid night when I have spent all day looking at football videos or practice or workout in the gym etc...why aren't Michigan players working as hard? Pfff"

Good job Fields. Actually great job OSU, for all intent and purpose a bonafide football factory. 

OSU homers can STFU and enjoy their football team/religion. 

I do agree with them on leaving B1G (probably the first time agreeing with what they have to say). Think of Northwestern, do we not think they want to win? Yet look at their recruiting. Their best receiver in 2020 class is from St. John's high school in Houston. I know about that school, its an elite academic school that is hard as hell to get into. You get the idea. Just leave this controversy ridden shameless conference (OSU, PSU, Maryland etc). Join academic league and get Northwestern, Vandy, Stanford, Washington, Notre dame (ha! as if theyd join) etc to join. OSU, PSU, MSU can rot in this Jim Delaney garbage. 

Warrior-poet

December 3rd, 2019 at 11:43 AM ^

I live in Cleveland also. Many fans are insufferable mouth-breathers.  

The reality is that there are holes in the roster namely at DT. This was known going into the season. M was probably a safety short this yr also.  can’t have holes in your roster and beat osu. Recruiting has to be better across the board on Defense.  

 

mrkid

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:35 AM ^

I'm not in the new DC camp. Let's sit back and watch happens to the defenses in the CFP vs Ohio St. It might be that Ohio St has a historically good offense this year and Don Brown isn't the only victim.

Don Brown has absolutely destroyed teams in his tenure here, outside of the 2019 Wisconsin and 2017 PSU game. He had great game plans vs Ohio St in 2016 and 2017.

Yes, the last two games vs Ohio St have been miserable but look at it objectively. In 2018, that team was playing to send Urban Meyer out as undefeated vs Michigan + Urban/Day exploited a weakness Don Brown overcame all season, which was slow defenders in coverage.

This year, that Ohio St offense is unbelievable and have destroyed everybody they played and I believe will continue to do it in the CFP. Don Brown made the adjustments from last year and implemented packages to take away getting burned by some weaknesses. That's what makes a good DC. Look at how many crossing routes got absolutely shut down by our defense all season. Point goes to Don Brown.

I'd rather have a DC that shuts down 99% of our schedule and gets the most out of his players.

I understand the Ohio St game is the worst to lose but don't let it skew your entire perspective on Don Brown. He is one of the best DC out there and will continue to learn from his losses.

1VaBlue1

December 3rd, 2019 at 10:14 AM ^

I feel the same frustration.  But I also don't see any other team getting OSU's best shot - especially PSU a week prior.  Those other teams also had defenses with real DT's - not overstuffed DE's.  It does make a difference.  In both 2016 and 2017, Michigan had real DT's and the results were quite different.  Maybe someday we'll have an offense like late season 2019 with a defense like 2016's?  That's what it will take to win.

Starting over with a new DC isn't going to fix the lack of DT's (or same level CB's).

Beilein 4 Life

December 3rd, 2019 at 1:07 PM ^

Why would MSU holding them to fewer points than us matter at all? These are the teams they let up more points to than us: Maryland, Illinois, Wisconsin, and they allowed the same vs PSU. Could it be they let up fewer points against OSU because OSU knew it couldn’t lose and didn’t try very hard?  MSU was down 27-10 at the half and OSU didn’t care to score much more. That isn’t the case with us.

1VaBlue1

December 3rd, 2019 at 10:08 AM ^

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There are holes on Michigan's defensive roster that we all know about - DT and CB.  Brown painted those over with an imaginative scheme based on four DE's and a mix of coverages.  He expected the coverage to hold until the pocket naturally squeezed in enough to make the QB move.  Once he moved, the defense wins.  That plan was put in place after Wisconsin blew through the DT-lite middle of the DL, and it worked masterfully against everyone else.  SP+ #4 defense is no joke.

OSU is different from others, though, because they have as many offensive weapons as Michigan has, and just as good (if not better) an OL.  M kept Shea clean, and he carved up the SP+ #1 defense all day.  OSU kept Fields clean, and he carved up the SP+ #4 defense all day.  The difference was that Dobbins didn't have to go through a relatively weak DL consisting of 4 DEs.  That opened it up for them, and swung it in their favor.

Blame Brown for not recruiting enough players to avoid such issues.  But whoever says he gets lit up against good teams are just angry after a loss and offer nothing objective, just subjective takes.

Fact is, both sides of the ball have reinvented themselves a couple of times to close the gap with OSU.  Until the personnel are similar, Michigan won't sniff a win.  They aren't similar enough, yet - and that's a recruiting fail for Harbaugh's staff, not a coaching fail by the DC.