Who was the best UofM QB?
I am sick of reading about 3 vs. 4 stars, so here is something different. I vote Harbaugh. I was just a kid when he was at UofM, but I can remember going to the spring game when I was 5 or 6 and he gave his wristbands to my cousin after the game. He was my favorite player after that. On a more subjective note, he put up terrific passing stats that still rank pretty high in the records on a team that was, until that point, a running offense. He had a great arm, could scramble, and played with a ton of heart. I remember seeing him (albeit in the pros for Indy) follow a running back's fumble into a pile against a D lineman and come out with a broken nose and the football. If he didn't get hurt in his upperclass years, he might have won the heisman. There are players ranked higher statistically, but much of that comes from a system change. (example: Does anyone think John Navarre was better?) I was in college from Dreisbach to Henson, and saw some great QB's, with Henson being the best tools wise, but I still vote Harbaugh.
Friedman.
Benny to Bennie would have been fun to watch.
Agreed. On Friedman and the Yankees.
CONER! or Malletsaurusrex hmmmmm choices, choices.
BOOM! MALLETED!
I will never forget the game when Leach basically beat OSU by himself. Can't remember the year. Anybody?
is my favorite Wolverine ever. He was so unlike any other quarterback at that time. He's the man.
Not only was Leach a great QB but, he's still a vocal, great Michigan Man! That puts him at the top of my list and it also eliminates Harbaugh after he bashed his alma mater in the press about education.
Henne's hurt by that goose egg against OSU, Brady split time as a senior, Henson bailed for the Yanks and OSU alum Stienbrenner.
As for the poster who claims Montana is only recognized because of his Super Bowl rings may I suggest you look at his stats. The only 3X SB MVP, no interceptions in the SB, all the great comebacks. Try to name some of the offensive weapons the 49ers had in their first SB win.
Henne, except for the dead arm game, came up huge in every big game he needed too. I don't think you can blame him.
Grbac was pretty darn good.
Because you can't mean that.
He started the statue qb trend.
Do you know that Grbac led the nation in passing efficiency one year? He also quarterbacked us to three straight Big Ten titles. I wouldn't call him our best ever, but he doesn't deserve your ridicule.
I ridiculed the notion of him as the best ever, the subject of this thread.
I don't think he was our best ever, but he's not so far from the top that it's a laughable idea. Do you remember him as well as you think? Check out his stats:
522-835 (62.5%), 6,460 yards, 71 TD, 31 INT, 7.7 YPA.
That's one of the best stat lines anyone's ever put up at this school.
http://stats.ath.umich.edu/football/cmaster.php
he would throw at the worst moments. I'm not knocking him, his stats are there, and the throw to Desmond against ND is enough on it's own to put him in our hearts. But he was not a great big game QB.
Grbac went 6-2-3 in career starts against ND, OSU and MSU. Those teams werent chopped liver as during Elivs' time our three main rivals were either legit National Title contenders or solid top-20 teams. One of those losses was the controversial MSU/Desmond P.I. game. He never lost to Ohio State. He won a Rose Bowl, something only four UM quarterbacks have done since 1966.
You might want to reconsider 'he's not a big game QB'
And, if you have time detail some INTs. I'm interested in this....memory is hazy at best on the play by plays at times during early 1990s games. The BIG ONE that stands out in my mind is his TD pass to a wide open Michael Stonebreaker in the end zone in the 1990 game. Well, it was in the end zone, and Stonebreaker played for ND, so I guess it was not a TD.
were it not for that 4th quarter pick. That game and the ND game in 1992 were the ones that stick in my memory and led to the comment. In '92 Elvis threw 3 int's against ND. We outgained them thoroughly (as I recall) but were done in by those picks.
John Navarre.
/thread
Navarre was indisputably Michigan's best QB from 2003-2003.
Brady or Grbac!
The answer is obvious: Tate. And according to another thread, he'll do it in three years because he'll be going pro then.
Brian Griese anyone? This is sort of where Joe Montana gets thrown around in best NFL QBs ever discussion. Griese didn't have the best tools or put up anywhere near what could be considered gaudy stats, but he has one thing that the others don't...an NC (or half of one). #2 could have something to do with all of that I suppose.
Just inciting discussion...If we're talking QBs I remember watching (I'm 26) I would say a tie between Henne and Grbac.
Are you suggesting that Montana didn't have the best tools or didn't put up gaudy stats?
I guess what I'm saying is that as good a college QB as Griese was, he never went out and dominated like Montana did over and over and over again. Griese played within himself and the offense and made some great plays here and there. Montana did all that while imposing his will on the entire rest of the league game in and game out.
I guess, bottom line: I don't think the comparison is very apt.
I agree comparing Griese to Montana is a joke in 99% of discussions, however in discussions titled "best QB ever at/in ___" it makes sense. Here's how...
If Montana hadn't won 4 rings would he be considered one of the best NFL QBs of all-time? Probably not.
1) He never threw for over 4,000 yds and only once threw for over 30 TDs. Compare that to Dan Marino, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady.
2) I don't think it's a stretch to say he wasn't the most physically gifted QB of all-time. He wasn't that mobile and didn't have a laser-rocket arm. Compare his raw skills to Elway (better arm and mobility), Steve Young (more mobile and comparable arm), or Dan Marino (comparable mobility and better arm).
Montana "played within himself" which included being a great leader, crazy accurate, and unbelievable in the clutch. That won him 4 rings and a spot at the table.
Does Griese deserve comparable praise to Montana for his team's accomplishments? No, see my "#2" comment in the original post. But his mentioning in the "best UofM QBs discussion" is because of the end result of his play at QB, similar to Montana.
But he did win a NC which you just cannot discount. He has to be in the discussion unless you are making a full career comparison.
1. Don't downgrade the '97 title by calling it a "half" championship. We have enough rival fans doing that already.
2. Griese absolutely sucked until his senior year. If he'd played anywhere near his senior-year level earlier in his career, you could make a case for him. But he was really bad when he started as a sophomore, and then he couldn't even keep his job the next year. (The only reason the '95 OSU game was close was because Griese threw three awful interceptions.)
3. As a senior, Griese did everything asked of him - but he was asked to do a lot less than a lot of other U-M QBs. He barely threw for 2,000 yards on the season. (The Rose Bowl was practically the only time all year he got to throw downfield.) The defense was the main reason we went undefeated. If we could have had that kind of defensive dominance in other years, we'd have won a few other national titles.
1) Agreed, I'm the first to jump down rival friends' throats when they play the 1/2 NC card. I was just foolin'
2) & 3) See "Just inciting discussion" section of original post. I know he wasn't that great out there, but he came up big when he needed to and didn't mess it up. He was our own mini-Trent Dilfer.
Rose Bowl stats: 18/30 for 251 yds, 3 TDs, 1 INT
Tate Forcier, spring game 2009
...end of story.
The only reason he doesn't have Harbaugh, Grbac, or Navarre-like stats is because he was splitting time w/ Greise and Henson. But if we're talking about BEST rather than MOST-ACCOMPLISHED, I think there is no way you can consider anyone else.
To detractors, I point you to the 2000 Orange Bowl vs. Alabama.
The "split time" argument is waaaaay overplayed. Brady threw 341 passes to Henson's 90. He also threw more passes that year than guys like Griese, Grbac, Collins, Harbaugh, or anyone not named "Henne" or "Navarre" ever threw in a season.
How does Henne get overlooked when talking about the best Michigan QB ever? He was a 4 year starter, holds pretty much all of Michigan's passing records and if he doesn't get injured his Sr. year is a 1st round draft pick. Yeah he made some bad decisions but he was huge in some of those classic comebacks. Yeah he had Braylon and Manningham but Henson/Brady had David Terrel and Walker and Grbac had Desmond. Maybe because he just left and it hasn't set in yet but he has to by my vote.
This is hard to argue because I did not see the Benny to Benny connection or Rick Leach, etc.(I am 29 so JH was the first QB I watched and even then I couldn't appreciate him) After watching the 2008 Captial One Bowl last night, Henne sure did possess some great passing ability. Some of those post pattern throws were just flawless, and he did those with regularity throughout his career. There was one crossing pattern where he hit Matthews and it looked like it knocked the wind out of him on the spot. Made me laugh and be happy that I never had to catch any of his burners.
http://mgoboard.com/blogmedia/video/2007/msu/2007_Michigan_at_Michigan_…
Are you kidding me? That throw was epic amazing OMG fucking stellar awesome jesus how did he do that?
Edit: "Are you kidding me?" is directed at the throw, not any poster.
Do people realize how sick good Henson was?
At hitting cureveballs? Or learning an NFL playbook?
To which do you refer?
You clearly didn't watch Michigan in 2000.
I did watch Michigan in the days of Henson. He was a physical specimen with all the tools and he played great when he got the chance.
My comment was to imply that his short stint at UofM (helped by injuries and Steinbrenner's checkbook) is overshadowed by his, more public, lack of ability in the batter's box and struggles in the NFL.
People always ask me this question and are shocked when I say Drew Henson, but it's true. He was unquestionably the best QB I've ever seen play for Michigan, Harbaugh included.
The stats bear this out, even though he only played the one full year.
Talent, yes. Good stats that year too. But IMO you have to make the team better if you're discussing "best ever." I don't think he did that IMO. I'd take Brady over him, (college Brady, not even pro Brady) and Griese as well. But he was damn talented and one of the best college QB's I've seen. I still can't believe he didn't pan out in the NFL.
If Henson's stats in 2000 weren't making the team better, I don't want to know what is.
Our problems in 2000 (when Henson was healthy) were 100% on the defensive side of the ball. How was Henson supposed to make them better? On offense, we were a machine.
Clearly Henson scored too fast.
I remember Brady well then, especially against Bama, and felt like he elevated the team, but thinking of the awful defense in 2000, including the nightmare of NW, I rescind.
Stevie Brown. Or did you mean the best QB for our team? He really made sure the ball got out there deep.
Friedman
Two Big 10 championships, beat OSU three times, NFL MVP, NFL Hall of Fame.
Nick Sheridan?
Henson had the potential to be the best (damn yankees) but you have to go with the guy who has all the records ant thats Henne.
records, shmecords
Don't dismiss Friedman because he played in the 20's. The guy was the Red Grange of the passing game and was a huge star at the time. Plus he had to throw the ball when it was bigger and rounder.
a fat little boy named Tobias.