What Corner do the Lions grab, and do they spend both picks on a corner?
I know i was in awe of Devon Witherspoon when i saw him play and would love for the Lions to grab him, but i am unfamiliar with Gonzalez of Oregon. If Gonzalez is just all speed and no substance i hope the Lions do not look at his workout numbers and draft him based on upside. They really need someone who is a sure thing IMO.
Also, Okukah has not impressed me at all. Do the Lions take 2 corners?
My preference is to leverage where we are at and trade down. Hopefully some teams become enamored with Richardson and Levis. This is a heavy CB crop this year in my opinion. I'd take a CB at 18 between Witherspoon, Gonzalez or Porter Jr. Even Branch if need be.
I would not like to spend a top 10 pick on a CB myself because I don't see a Sauce Gardner type in this draft class.
Porter is a walking pass interference call, so no thanks.
But I like the idea of trading back some and getting Witherspoon or Gonzalez. Was really impressed with Witherspoon against M. I also like the idea of taking Branch and having him play a 3rd safety/slot role…great in coverage and as a tackler. Would help the secondary a lot.
I agree we Porter shouldn’t even be considered he will be another Okudah.
Witherspoons would be the choice at 18.
Therein lies the problem. Jeff Okudah, according to his pre-draft grades was projected to be a BETTER NFL CB than Sauce Gardner, actually fairly significantly better.
Jeff Okudah - Prospect grade 7.1
Sauce Gardner - Prospect grade 6.2
Drafting is a very inexact science which is why so many sure-fire QBs turn out to be complete busts. It's also why some teams believe the key to drafting success is to just accumulate as many picks as possible because the odds of getting a good player are about the same with multiple late round pics as they are with a single first or second round pick. Buying more lottery tickets if you will to increase your odds of getting lucky.
Sauce has been overlooked since HS at MLK so this is not surprising.
I get that, but I didn't want Okudah at the time because the OSU ends were so dominant, I felt he had the easiest CB job in CFB.
When Patrick Surtain II went 9th overall, it made sense to me.
When Marlon Humphrey went 16th overall, it made sense to me.
There is no real consensus this year on a standout CB, so I feel that we'd be reaching if we take one in the top 10. I actually really like Clark Phillips, he is really sticky. If he was 2-3" taller and 15 pounds heavier, he'd be the first corner off the board.
Witherspoon seems like the best fit, but will likely not be around at 18. If the Lions can trade down, I think they should. Wouldn't mind them picking up Ringo if he's available in the 2nd round either.
Going to be an interesting draft for sure, feels weird to actually look forward to it.
In the later rounds if Jack Campbell is still sitting there, I'd love for the Lions to grab him as well for Linebacker help.
^^^This Jack Campbell?
In fairness, he did say later rounds.
Lol. Yeah but that was against the best running back in NFL history, so he gets a pass :)
Uhh, I like Blake, but I'm not ready to call him the "best running back in NFL history" just yet... LOL!!
That only looked like Barry Sanders. Whoosh!
Hahaha just a brutal way to end the conversation. But in good taste.
Campbell is severely overrated. Slow to react.
You could put just about ANY Linebacker in that position against Blake and I would take Blake all day everyday and twice on Sunday to do the EXACT same thing.
That was simply too much open space for any LB to try and tackle a top notch RB.... Most would fail just as poorly...
If you watch enough NFL, LBs can make that play. Blake is fast & agile, but so are most RBs in the NFL. We saw UGA’s defense (a team full of NFL players) swarm Corum when it seemed Corum had a lane/angle. I’m sorry but Corum isn’t making that same play on Devin White or Micah Parsons. Dalvin Cook & Aaron Jones would be licking their chops at taking Jack Campbell’s knees 2x a season.
Not necessarily... Campbell hesitated coming up to the line and waited for Blake to make a move and then bit HARD. That's an experience thing you normally don't see NFL LB's do - they rarely (if ever) wait for a RB to come to them. If Campbell drives into that hole, Blake doesn't get by him. If he does, it certainly isn't clean. It also looked like Campbell was running at half-speed, which should never be a thing in the NFL - but that could've been the replay speed, I dunno.
Nonetheless, that's a play that doesn't bode very well for Campbell's NFL-worthiness.
Every fan loves the idea of trading down, but in reality there are only 4 elite prospects this year and I would have been a fan of trading up to 3 to grab Carter or Anderson. Now they might not have to trade up for one of them.
The Lions won't take Carter. Sheila may be better owner than her dad and brother, but she's still a Ford. Personal character is still going to mean something to her...
You think she would overrule the GM? Holy shit, things may be worse than I thought.
Overrule the GM, aka Dan Snyder taking RGIII? No, I don't think she'd do that. But she hired Dan Campbell and Brad Homes, in part, because they think sort of like she does. I'm sure they're also looking for character. But no, I doubt she would overrule Holmes' decision if he really wanted the guy. In that case, he'll have reasons/evidence that she can rely on.
Agreed on all takes, just a friendly reminder you're definitely leaving out Spielman.
He's her go- to mercenary.
It probably won't matter because now that the initial shock has worn off, basically no one is scared off of Carter now. He is still going top 4 guaranteed unless 4 QBs go top 5 (which is basically a zero percent chance).
Recently read a blurb that the Lions are more impressed by tape than physical metrics.
that would seem to align with the dan campbell approach.
i remember thinking that, when moeller's teams "underperformed" (and yes, i know that saying his teams "underperformed" is at least slightly laughable) it was because he recruited too many athletes and not enough football players.
dan campbell likes football players.
So did Bo. He worked his kids to death. Many starters were injured at practice, but the entire team was tougher than shit so it didnt matter. They just out-toughed opponents.
"They just out-toughed opponents."
Until they got to the Rose Bowl.
That's kind of a myth. They beat most opponents because they were vastly more talented than everyone except Ohio State and most bowl opponents. Bo's teams didn't fair so well against equally talented teams.
Also, making injured players play anyway is kind of a bad thing a lot of the time.
In the 2022 draft, I looked at the https://www.mockdraftable.com/ profiles of all of the Lions' pics. I saw a trend that their athletic measureables tended to be elite, with physical measureables much less likely to be elite. I think they may be onto something. Combine that info with picking proven leaders (lots of team captains) and guys who perform on tape, I think they maximize their odds of success.
Oh nooooooo!!!!! That's how we ended up with Teez Tabor.
Witherspoon is the guy I'd focus on. The scenario of trading w Carolina to get the #9 pick, which I see on the Athletic, is a good one IMO.
I hope they don’t take 2 corners.
The best teams draft the best players and don’t grab at a spot of need. They would be better off drafting at one of those spots and flipping the other #1 for a future #1 and a few more picks. They have a lot of holes still on the roster and a first round pick is probably a good player just over half the time.
The best teams draft the best players and don’t grab at a spot of need.
I thought we were talking about the Lions.
In all seriousness, the idea of only drafting the best player and not a spot of need seems silly to me. Football is about creating a whole that’s greater than the sum of its parts. If a team has a solid front seven but a weak back seven they are screwed. That’s how the Bucks took out the Packers in the NFC championship game when Brady won his final ring.
If a team has a solid front seven but a weak back seven they are screwed.
What's even more impressive is that Tampa beat them playing 11 on 14!
That's what the GOAT did to you when he had decent WRs...
If 2 players were really close and you needed one position more, it makes sense. Other than that, they need to draft the best possible players. Injuries and the salary cap can make a deep position turn into an area of need in 2 years. Reaching in the draft likely leads to getting less talent.
I would try and use free agency to get an established corner. They have cap space.
Since they are the Lions, they will likely do something crazy
If 2 players were really close and you needed one position more, it makes sense. Other than that, they need to draft the best possible players. Injuries and the salary cap can make a deep position turn into an area of need in 2 years. Reaching in the draft likely leads to getting less talent.
I would try and use free agency to get an established corner. They have cap space.
Since they are the Lions, they will likely do something crazy
NO way spend both on corners. Take Tyree Wilson with 6th pick due to position value. Tall bendy edge, think Ziggy but hopefully stays healthy. Witherspoon has a lot going for him but is on smaller side to take so high. Might get him at 18th pick. Hell, they now have a shot at Jalen Carter at 18th if Cowboys don't trade up for him. Those two DL upgrades in first and your corners only need to be good for 3.5 seconds.
Well, Wilson is already struggling with a broken foot, so the Ziggy comparison may be more accurate than we'd like.
"Witherspoon has a lot going for him but is on smaller side to take so high."
Witherspoon is listed at 6'-1".
The starting corner for the Chiefs is Trent McDuffie, and he's listed at 5'-11"
The starting corner for the Eagles is James Bradberry, and he's listed at 6'-1"
Jaire Alexander on the Packers is a two-time All-Pro and Pro Bowler, and he's listed at 5'-10"
Sure, having a 6'-3" corner like Sauce would be great, but the suggestion that 6'-1" is too small isn't supported by the size of CBs who are excelling at the position.
And there's one more relatively accomplished CB who was 6'-1": Charles Woodson.
Okudah was borderline awesome last year although I think he's eventually going to slide over to safety
Umm what??
Okudah was benched at the end of the season against Carolina & Chicago for ::checks notes:: Mike Hughes?
The Lions are struggling to decide if they want to pick up Okudah's 5th year option of his ROOKIE contract which is a no brainer decision if the player is semi competent. Clearly the team does not own the same pair of rose colored glasses that you do
Darker Blue and rose-colored glasses?
That's a first.
To be fair Okudah was coming back from an Achilles which is an absolutely brutal injury for a corner to have.
Moving Okudah to safety is something the Lions should explore if they haven’t already. He’s got good size and he is a sound tackler.
"He was good but I think he'll need to change positions"
🤨
Two corners (Porter/Gonzalez/Witherspoon and then Quan Martin/Sydney Brown as Illinois impressed the hell out of me with their DB's , a DT and a LB first two rounds in best order of need/availability of desired talent then guard/TE for 3rd unless guard through FA and then 5th round= Moody.
I think they can do well with existing edge rushers if they can create more consistent up the middle push a la UM this past year (compresses time window and rush lanes to speed up a QB's internal clock). Then go for an edge the next year.
Got to say I would love to get Mazi as he does good things consistently.
It's the Lions, so I would imagine they will draft 3 WR's and 2 TE's....maybe a LB coming off 4 ACL operations with their first pick.
The Lions have nailed the last two drafts with this regime and are building in the an extremely competent way. It's time for new material.
Sorry, having not been born yesterday, I put zero faith in the Lions. It'd be awesome if they finally turned it around and won a second playoff game (or, made it to the playoffs), but I don't know that anyone on this board will live long enough to see that happen. I've got nothing against those who spend their time thinking the Lions will actually do it, this time, but can't imagine wasting time caring about them until they prove it on the field.
Exactly. Hometown NFL fans born today should henceforth remain pessimistic.
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