WFT releases Dwayne Haskins
When will teams learn? Never draft an OSU QB!
https://theathletic.com/news/dwayne-haskins-released-washington-football-team/PWx7BuIdQrQJ
December 28th, 2020 at 1:12 PM ^
Guess he only played like a 1st round pick against us
December 28th, 2020 at 1:15 PM ^
He had 50 TDs that year.
December 28th, 2020 at 1:36 PM ^
On Madden.
December 28th, 2020 at 1:55 PM ^
I think 48 of them were against us as I recall.
December 28th, 2020 at 2:56 PM ^
And was B1G offensive POY.
December 28th, 2020 at 2:53 PM ^
Why does it seem like a lot of guys play like 1st round picks against us?
(Gary Nova and Rocky Lombardi are nodding their heads)
December 28th, 2020 at 3:29 PM ^
Because we don't consistently prepare our players to come out of the tunnel ready for war. It's a mindset that is missing at Michigan and explains why our teams fall flat time and time again.
December 28th, 2020 at 4:07 PM ^
I really do not think we have had a coach who prepared the team for war since Bo. I never got that vibe from Moeller. Maybe early Carr but certainly not late Carr. Rodriguez is a no. Hoke an emphatic no. And Harbaugh promised to be but I think he decided it was too much work and went into semi-retirement.
December 28th, 2020 at 4:23 PM ^
Hoje had some valiant efforts against OSU his first 3 years.
December 28th, 2020 at 4:36 PM ^
Gotta disagree with you on Hoke, dude could get his guys ready for big games like OSU.
December 28th, 2020 at 11:52 PM ^
So the OSU standard is lose but not embarrassingly so? Get the troops properly fired up to lose by a respectable margin? Beat them every time they have an interim head coach?
December 28th, 2020 at 5:28 PM ^
If you look at the record, Bo started the 70s basically with 5 seasons in a row with one loss. He wasn't any better at keeping his teams focused. That stretch should have had multiple championships.
December 28th, 2020 at 7:34 PM ^
Moeller? It was Moeller, who OSU was PETRIFIED of .. PETRIFIED... He crushed them and never lost to them. Best teams I've seen as a student and fan, were his. In fact the guys Carr won with, were his.
December 28th, 2020 at 9:08 PM ^
I was really disappointed when Moeller was fired. The guy could recruit, and I remember a lot of aggressive playcalling from him. Didn't always worked out, but it when it did it was incredible. Don't know what his deal was at Illinois, but he seemed to have some fire at M we haven't seen since.
I guess Les really screwed us over, can certainly understand how Lloyd torpedoed him.
December 29th, 2020 at 8:14 AM ^
Absolutely AGREE! NO FIRE...start on our heels EVERY GAME....NEVER ANY ADJUSTMENTS....since the Lloyd era....
December 29th, 2020 at 9:37 AM ^
This is so true. Even with Brown's best defenses, the opposition almost always scored on their first possession. Against good teams, this put us behind the 8 ball from the start. Against bad teams, it gave them confidence that they might have a chance against us.
Either way, we never seem ready to play when we hit the field, and that falls on the coaches (and to a lesser degree the captains and seniors).
December 28th, 2020 at 3:32 PM ^
NFL draft lessons...(1) don’t draft an Ohio State QB based on his performance in Michigan games alone, and (2) realize that the character of elite Ohio State QB’s is usually questionable.
December 28th, 2020 at 3:41 PM ^
So did Rocky Lombardi.
December 28th, 2020 at 1:14 PM ^
The league done messed up
December 28th, 2020 at 1:14 PM ^
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it's Haskins.
December 28th, 2020 at 6:57 PM ^
Indeed! Let the hate flow through you!!
December 28th, 2020 at 1:15 PM ^
Exhibit #100,000 that I cannot predict which college QBs will succeed in the League. I’m always too infatuated with long-ball accuracy in college, yet it rarely translates to success in the pros.
December 28th, 2020 at 1:27 PM ^
Haskins was bound to fail from the beginning. Throwing to wide open high 4 star and 5 star receivers in an essentially air raid offense typically doesn't translate well to NFL pro style offenses, especially when you no long have a huge WR advantage over almost every team you play. Haskins had to actually start making reads in the NFL and failed miserably
December 28th, 2020 at 1:33 PM ^
Agreed.
I said this on the original Diary post:
I'm no expert at QB play or analysis but Fields seems slow on his reads (particularly on the deep/mid balls). At the same time, he is throwing to elite level receivers who he does not have to throw open while playing overmatched secondaries. Fields, like Haskins, Cardale Jones, JT Barrett and Terrelle Pryor won't have decided talent advantages vs. the B1G to cover his limitations. His speed and elusiveness won't be enough against NFL safeties or linebackers. I would expect him to struggle againgst NFL coverages with less read time and DE's crashing at least a second faster. Still probably goes mid 1st round to somebody though.
Reading down the it seems that "somebody" may be the Lions. Jeebus.
December 28th, 2020 at 1:58 PM ^
I actually think Fields is much better than Haskins, and has displayed a higher on-field IQ than Haskins ever did at OSU.
While Haskins was pretty accurate in college, he often had short, easy throws behind an incredibly protective offensive line and routinely fell apart when he was faced with pressure.
December 28th, 2020 at 2:09 PM ^
While I think Fields has probably has the better NFL future, Fields has struggled against good defenses more than Haskins ever did
December 28th, 2020 at 7:21 PM ^
Going into this season I thought the same thing for sure. What I saw this year though he should be buyer beware for NFL teams.
December 29th, 2020 at 9:27 AM ^
Actually - I think the play calling did Fields no favors in that B1G championship game. NW was set to defend the pass, double teamed their top slot guy, and osu was without 2 of it's top receivers. Add that to the fact that due to the inconsistent schedule and small amount of actual games played, they had no rhythm and were not likely to get it during the game. Day called a totally bone headed game. From the start, osu was averaging like 10 ypc rushing and Day insisted on throwing. It was not until midway through the third quarter that they started running. Had they run from the get-go, they would have won by 3 or 4 TD's. If Day calls a game like that vs. Clemson, it will be a blood bath - Clemson will beat them easily.
December 28th, 2020 at 3:50 PM ^
I'm watching something different than you. I think Fields is slower (reading the field) than Haskins was. I also think the threat of a QB running game buys him lots of extra time that he won't have in the NFL and that never existed with Haskins. The running threat also buys him big windows to throw into that Haskins didn't have, and that Fields won't in the NFL. I think he's going to be a big bust.
December 28th, 2020 at 8:05 PM ^
"I'm watching something different than you. I think Fields is slower (reading the field) than Haskins was. I also think the threat of a QB running game buys him lots of extra time that he won't have in the NFL and that never existed with Haskins. The running threat also buys him big windows to throw into that Haskins didn't have, and that Fields won't in the NFL. I think he's going to be a big bust. "
Fields reminds me of Vince Young, seriously.
About the same arm talent and ability to read a defense, but the problem for Fields is he isn't as strong of a runner as Young in terms of being capable of taking the punishment. Young also seemed faster and more instinctive with the ball in his hands when running, not a knock on Fields because he is also good in these areas it's just Young seemed to be elite.
December 28th, 2020 at 4:17 PM ^
It's just one game, but Fields is coming off a brutal performance against Northwestern, in an indoor stadium (12-27, 114 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT). I don't think Haskins ever looked that bad in college. Fields is a better athlete than Haskins, but I'm not sure he's as good of a passer. I'd trade down if I were in position to take him.
December 28th, 2020 at 4:36 PM ^
Fields is not going to lead an NFL team at Qb. Teams that mix up coverage and pressure cause him to freeze up. The NFL is going to eat him up.
If the Lions take him I’m done with them...again. This time I really mean it.
December 28th, 2020 at 2:45 PM ^
This whole thread on Haskins is a clear picture of the decline of Michigan. The Big 2 and the little 8 meant that OSU (and Michigan) could stomp through their schedule and then play each other where QBs had to throw guys open and face pressure. Where windows were NFL sized and so were the defenders.
OSU is still there, Michigan is just another team on the schedule they can out-talent and score 60 points with QBs the NFL can’t use because they aren’t hard working enough and don’t know how to play against evenly matched talent.
yikes.
December 28th, 2020 at 2:50 PM ^
so you think that NFL teams can't make the same assessments?
December 28th, 2020 at 3:39 PM ^
I think when you're the Redskins and need a franchise QB, you can make some serious miscalculations when drafting a QB
December 28th, 2020 at 11:43 PM ^
In the last five decades OSU has had 15 QBs drafted. They all busted except for Tom Tupa, who was a good punter. Maybe Craig Krenzel wasn't a total bust--he didn't go until the 5th round and he was an adequate backup.
The only QB in the history of the school to have any NFL success (as a quarterback--Matte and Tupa don't count) went undrafted, and at a time when the draft had 12 rounds.
So, yes, there's some history to suggest the league has had some trouble evaluating their quarterbacks.
December 28th, 2020 at 3:01 PM ^
So according to this logic, Tua will fail, Kyler Murray will be a bust, Trevor Lawrence doesn't stand a chance, and Mac Jones will be a terrible pro.
December 28th, 2020 at 3:38 PM ^
OSUs offense for Haskins wasn't remotely similar to Clemson's and Bama's offenses
December 28th, 2020 at 4:35 PM ^
Compare him to Kyler Murray though, Oklahoma has basically run an air raid for years and he's much better than Haskins.
I was wrong on that front, I thought for sure Haskins would be better than Murray.
December 28th, 2020 at 5:07 PM ^
Sadly for the Lions, this rule applies to Okudah too. He had a ridiculous pass rush that allowed him to flourish on the backend. In Detroit? One of the worst pass rushes in the league every year.
December 28th, 2020 at 1:35 PM ^
The bigger problem for Haskins, which came out during the various interviews and analysis from scouts, is that he ran a really simple offense and struggled to read defenses or really commit to getting better. It's largely the same concerns I'd have about Fields, who probably isn't as lazy as Haskins sounds like (based on WFT insiders the past couple of weeks), but who also seems to struggle reading defenses and adjusting to different pass coverages.
College QBs going to the pros is always a crapshoot, but if I'm drafting a QB from a big-name program I'd out way more stock in an OU, Alabama, or even Clemson QB at this point over an OSU one.
December 28th, 2020 at 2:11 PM ^
"The bigger problem for Haskins...is that he ran a really simple offense..."
I wish Michigan/Jim Harbaugh would run this simple offense if it would let Michigan QBs rack up 5,000ish passing yards, 50 TDs, and rewrite conference record books.
I'm not being sardonic. I'm being dead serious. Maybe Coach Harbaugh should run this simple modified air raid offense if it lets Michigan stomp teams while putting up video game numbers. (Thanks to Gattis, we're actually recruiting players that would fit the offense now.)
I'm sick and tired of watching Wisconsin be college RB U (which we used to be) and Ohio State become college QB U (which we used to be).
-----
On a related note, I'm strongly in favor of Michigan poaching away Joe Moorhead from Oregon. I made the following comment somewhere when Gattis was hired. When you hire someone to install a new offense, you should empower him by letting him hire people (WR coach, QB coach, etc.) who are familiar with it and can teach it too. When Gattis was hired, it was just him. So Gattis was teaching Harbaugh's coaching staff as much as he was teaching the players. (One of the coaches - Warinner iirc - said something to that effect in one of the pre-season interviews with media.) By hiring Moorhead (who is one of the originators of the RPO offense), Moorhead and Gattis can work together. There will be a synergy there imo.
Also, as good as Moorhead's spread and modernized option offense is I think he would benefit from how Harbaugh uses power (and Harbaugh is most definitely a downhill power coach). Based on what little I know, I think Harbaugh and Moorhead would mesh really well as coaches and philosophies.
December 28th, 2020 at 2:32 PM ^
But he's OUR "downhill power roach"!
December 28th, 2020 at 2:48 PM ^
"I...uh...lo siento senor no hablo ingles."
/Fixed. ;)
December 28th, 2020 at 3:08 PM ^
Oh, I've long advocated for running a dirt-simple offense in college. I was a big proponent of UM going with RR because his offense didn't even require you be particularly accurate downfield; it really opens up your pool for talent when you can take someone with a decent arm and plus athleticism and unleash him on defenses. Haskins, admittedly, wasn't like that but the pre-Haskins Meyer teams were all like that, and it worked to great acclaim.
I don't think OSU is QB U in the sense that they pump out good QBs; they run an offense that lets them put up big numbers but their defenses are legit and keep the games realistic. Wisconsin pumping out great RBs is a credit to them and their player development; similar credit should go to Georgia on that front. To me, QB U in college is probably OU, which has turned a bunch of guys without "prototype" skills into Heisman winners/contenders + decent pros. It's telling that their last 3 QBs are all now starters in the NFL; that's an amazing hit record.
I don't mind the idea of Moorhead coming in, but then you really have hitched your wagon to that offensive style and you have to see if it can be reproduced. Moorhead went to MSU and inherited a good QB for that system (Nick Fitzgerald) and proceeded to put up mediocre offenses. I think he can recapture that but you also do wonder if it just helped having a lot of really good offensive players (McSorley, Barkley, James, etc.) on one team that also caught fire for a bit, and that trying to recreate that might not work again. I guess we'll see.
December 28th, 2020 at 4:15 PM ^
You're right. Oklahoma is clearly QB U right now. (Although, Alabama hasn't done bad in this regard either. Saban's Alabama has certainly come a long from the days of game managers like Greg McElroy and maybe AJ McCarron.)
That said, I don't think it's an accident that consistent playoff participants have had the best QB play:
- Oklahoma: (Mayfield, Kyler Murray, Jalen Hurts)
- Clemson (Watson, Lawrence, Uiagalelei soon)
- Alabama (Hurts, Tagovailoa, Mac Jones)
- Ohio State (Jones, Barrett, Fields)
- Notre Dame has been to the playoffs twice now. Both times Ian Book was the starting QB.
- One time teams: 2014 FSU (Jameis Winston), 2014 Oregon (Mariota), 2015 MSU (Connor Cook)
The one time LSU had incredible / unprecedented QB play, it had a freaking amazing run. 2019 LSU had arguably the greatest resume in college football history. Beat 7 top-10 teams including the preseason #1, #2, and #3.
If Michigan wants to win the Big Ten and contend for National Championships, Michigan MUST improve QB play to Heisman finalist caliber level.
There's no way around this.
In today's college football, a team must be able to score 40+ against a top 10 defense. Otherwise, fuggetaboutit.
December 28th, 2020 at 4:25 PM ^
Getting a Heisman level QB is going to be tough when they'd rather kill clock and run 50 plays a game than score 50 points.
December 28th, 2020 at 5:56 PM ^
I don't disagree, but I also think it's difficult to separate out "Heisman finalist caliber" QBs based on overall talent versus simply playing on elite teams. Ian Book is not an elite, Heisman-trophy player. His season stats have been...fine, but aren't particularly different than his career averages. Fields has completed passes at a higher rate but also nearly a yard and a half less per throw, on average, than last year, with 2 more picks in fewer than half as many games. Jones has played well but he may also be throwing to the most talented group of receivers in the country; I'm honestly not sure how he stacks up outside of that environment.
It's honestly why I'm most impressed with OU's QBs; they've all looked great even against the better teams they've faced. Similarly, I'll give credit to Clemson because those QBs have consistently played well against tougher opponents.
December 28th, 2020 at 6:12 PM ^
Either way trying to score points is a requirement.
December 28th, 2020 at 11:52 PM ^
Are you sure? The last 3 years of Michigan football have me kinda iffy on this idea...