Water is wet.
Urban Meyer is a straight out liar - evidence showing Circle of Trust existed at Florida
Not in a gaseous form. /nerd
Is it still called water? Or is it called steam? Which can be dry or wet. /Engineer
I always got stuck trying to remember Avocado's Number....
Came to MGoBlog to read about football. Left with PhD in Chem.
My recollection from my days in school (as we used to say it in class): Six point 023 times 10 to the 23rd, so the 23's were easy to remember. But actually the value is: 6.0221415 × 1023
I can still remember Avocado's number - yes we called it Avocado too. I have forgotten the phone number on the blackboard the first day of class. Some intepid soul finally gathered the courage to ask what the number was. Our rather gruff acting chem instructor looked at us over the top of his glasses, and told us it was the number for the Truck Driving Academy for anyone who didn't pass his Chemistry Class.
I know Avocado. He's that guy that owns a great taco stand in San Jose del Cabo. Really bad teeth but great mole sauce and awesome fish tacos. But I didn't think he even owned a phone
Best blog ever.
You will need more than the enthalpy to determine if it's wet or dry.
We'll if it's superheated it's dry. If the quality is less than 100%, but saturated, it's wet. /Engineer
Okay, so to avoid any confusion, if Urban Meyer were steam he'd be in the wet steam region. If he's superheated, then the laws of thermodynamics break down and that's just crazy talk.
An atmosphere of gaseous H2O is frankly the wettest one known to man.
Einhorn is Finkle
You are a history major too, huh?
I'm an idiot. What the f**k is Avogadro's number? This I know:
Death. Taxes. Urban is a liar.
Death. Taxes. Petrino is a sleaze bag.
Death. Taxes. Kelly is an overbearing ass.
Death.Taxes. Dantanio misses Jim Tressel.
As opposed to a crooked liar? A circular liar? You get where I'm going...
to "straight-out" liar. [Of course, he may also be a crooked liar, but that's for others to determine.]
Can one be a bald faced liar, AND a crooked liar at the same time? The implication being that one might be able to lie without being crooked.
Btw -- it's BALD-faced, not bold-faced, irregardless (sic) of the context.
You were really chomping at the bit to throw that in there, weren't you?
Bold-faced still gets the point across, for all intensive purposes.
I see what you did there
I see what you did not see that he did there.
I actually don't see what you see that I did not see that he did there.
This is why I love this blog . . .
And oh by the way -- He a liar!
He might be a liar, scum, cheater, etc, whatever, but he's a hell of a football coach.
With that said, a good portion of the country is hoping Hoke beats him back into retirement.
To coach 5-star talent at every position...
Charlie Weis begs to differ.
I disagree. Look at Florida's roster now. Muschamp has already lost over 10 players and they've been pretty bad the last two seasons. This all happened despite four or five top five classes in a row.
That just means it's hard to win with unhappy players as well. He's obviously a good coach, but it is most certainely easier to win when you're loaded at every position. Muschamp losing 6 games his first season with a ton of attrition is because players can't do whatever they want now...
Just saying. He's a damn good coach.
& a great staff.
Haha, I was thinking the same thing. beat me to the punch.
This may not be a big deal, but man do some sports writers smell blood in the water, similar to when Rich Rod was here. This could get very interesting (not in relation to this particular story, but sports writers now know Meyer can be exposed).
I hope they just keep pouring it on no matter how little the accusations are. The more shit that comes out about Meyer the better.
I would pile on if someone else suffered the same fate? Damned straight I would, and I would take extreme pleasure from doing it, too.
I've thought the same thing. I kicked around the idea of posting a diary about the similarities between the two hires, but didn't know how receptive the board would be to it, with all the dead horses littered around here.
- Jilted former fanbases
- Accusations of infidelity (however unfounded they may be)
- Both run new offenses
- Both seen as mercenaries more than company men
- Media has seemed to latch onto the negative side of both of their backstories
- Well heralded for turning their former teams around and making them annual BCS threats.
Compare that to the hiring of Hoke, or for that matter a guy like Kelly at ND, and its interesting to see that they've both followed a similar trajectory as of now.
Is there any evidence that Ohio State isn’t embracing him though? And is he forcing his DC to run an unfamiliar system? Until those things happen, I don’t see the two as very similar.
- local media in Ohio seems supportive of Urban (but damn... the Florida media hates him)
- OSU fan base is obviously supportive
- no crazy contract dispute with old school
- Urban has a prior connection to Ohio State. Even went to school there.
- ex players don't seem to be turning on Urban or saying stupid things
Another difference: RR seems to have wanted to be the "company man" at WVU, but the administrators thought he was too big for his britches and fought him.
Not sure Urban sees himself as a "company man" anywhere, and is liable to bail when the grass looks greener elsewhere.
Meyer has a very good QB who fits his system.
- About the ex-players thing... did you miss that article about ex players turning on Urban and saying stupid things?
- I live in Ohio, the media has not turned on him yet, but I do get the feeling they are wary.
- Michigan fanbase was supportive at first. It was the old guard that rejected him out of hand.
Didn't Urby go to Cinci? Or, maybe he got a grad degree at OSU.
Yahoo actually got it from an NCAA source. OSU had already reported it.
Well we have a better class then him, so in 5 years Hoke will be a better coach than Meyer not only because of Hoke's ability but because of talent as well.
This isn’t necessarily true. First of all, his 2012 class was better than ours. Recruiting for the 2013 class is nowhere near finished, so who knows where that’ll lead for the two programs. Second, the gap between recruiting will likely not be very large so as to guarantee one team being better than the other. Third, the relation between stars on the field and wins on the field is not as concrete as you make it seem.
Saying one recruiting class was better than the other at this point based on recruiting service rankings is just dumb. It will be quite some time before we know how Meyer or Hoke have been doing on the recruiting trail.
selling jerseys in Ohio is a great start.
I'm pretty sure that both teams will have really good classes this year, and every year for the foreseeable. I laugh when people look at .1 star differences in the averages and think one class is soooo much better than the other.
that quoting a really popular movie is evidence of anything except enjoying the situational comedic stylings of Ben Stiller.
Oh, that explains...
Urban Meyer Centre For Children Who Can't Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too.
There's more to life than just being really, really, really good looking.
It is only evidence for horrible taste.
I want to beat Meyer and his team into the turf every year, but the word 'circle of trust' is pretty common. Don't know if Meyer meant it that way, as in do whatever you want.
Especially when you actually click on that link and look at the articles. Nowhere does Meyer use the phrase "Circle of Trust." The times the phrase is used, it's used by the journalist who wrote the headline/story. Meyer simply talks about players earning his trust with their play... While, I'm not one to defend the guy, that's hardly a smoking gun.
(hence my downvote)
Both times the writer used the phrase and never used it to him. And even if Meyer did use the phrase, so what? There is nothing illegal or even immoral about having a "circle of trust."
Next, the guy is going to tweet some old articles where Meyer uses the word "circle" out of context as further "proof" of the existence of the Circle of Trust.
While there is nothing intrinsically wrong with having a "circle of trust," the fact that Meyer continues to lie about it indicates that there is a problem.
That is the same logic that was just used to leap from motorcycle ride to mistress, and to fire Petrino at Arkansas, and about 90 percent of the posters here seemed to agree with it when it was used on Petrino.
Am I saying Meyer should be fired? Of course not. But anytime Ohio State is put under the microscope of suspicion, it makes me happy.
Bottom line: I don't know what Ohio did to piss off the Sports by Brooks dude, but I sure am glad it happened.
There is no crime in having a Circle of Trust. And it looks like it did exist. Why deny and lie about it unless there may be some truth to the accusations?
No, the bottom line is that SportsByBrooks is an idiot.
Meyer didn't lie about anything - nowhere is this "Circle of Trust" credited to him. It was the analogy used by both those journalists as a pop culture reference. And as Brooks is wont to do, he distorts reality to try to get a "Gotcha!" journalism moment.
One of the authors, Austin Murphy, even took to Twitter now to point out Brooks idiocy, and made it clear that Meyer never said it.
It's disappointing that after reading the first 50 posts in this thread, not a single person [Edit: my mistake, 2 people pointed it out above this] has pointed out this blatant error (although calling it an error would be giving too much credit to Brooks, since he obviously did it on purpose).
Maybe he has some evidence and twitter is the wrong forum to make accusations.
Who cares if he calls it/called it the "Circle of Trust"? The point is, did he do it? Nixon didn't call it "Watergate," but it was still wrong and still brought his presidency down. It's clear that Meyer used the term "trust" for his star players...did he also use that term as code for players who got preferential treatment? I hope they keep digging...where's there's smoke...
There is no "do" to do!. There is no comparison to any scandal because prefential treatment isn't a scandal! There is nothing wrong with having a circle of trust, or any group of players having preferential treatment. Call it anything you want, there is nothing wrong with it. It may not be a good way to run your team, but who cares if he did it? There isn't anything wrong in the first place. Guh...
You didn't read the sporting news article, which explains the alleged offenses. This isn't just about preferential treatment. It's about cover-ups, illegal scholarship tactics, and lying to players and administrators.
And once again I'll state--there is not one single thing against either the NCAA rules or any workplace rules in the alleged "offenses." Take off your anti-Ohio blinders. I don't like him either, but even if everything in the article is true, he showed bad judgement and management, nothing more.
His troubles will follow him to Ohio State. Like we are fond of saying in the south, if you put a fox in the hen house, you'll have chicken for dinner every night. He hasn't, nor will he ever change who he is.
Wouldn't the fox be the one having chicken for dinner every night? I know someone who had a coyote (raccoons?) break into their chicken coop, and man, those chickens were gone.
Don’t be insulting the south now. Ya’ll don’t want to invite the wrath of Dixie. American by birth, Southern by the grace of God! But fo real, we’ll spit tobacco at you, or wear our pretentious bow ties to make you feel under dressed, or something.
Not sure why, but I read this comment in the voice of Foghorn Leghorn, and it was rather amusing.
...him to Ohio since the coeds are not nearly as hot in C-bus. However, they are twice as dumb, so you never know.
Not saying Urban isn't a liar, since we all know that's a foregone conclusion, but that tweet is bullshit. Nowhere in those old articles is Urban quoted as saying he has a circle of trust. The reporters said that. All he says in those quotes is "I trust ___" and "We trust ___ to make a play." I'm surprised the guy actually tweeted that as evidence. It's pretty weak.
Good point. Brooks (or whatever his name is) seems perpetually overly eager to catch someone doing something wrong.
But if I remember correctly, he was the one who first broke the story that Harbaugh would not be taking the Michigan job at a time when many Michigan journalists & insiders were confident he would. People railed on him for it, but in the end, his story was accurate.
BUT THEY BOTH HAVE THE WORD TRUST!!!
This is a big yawn. Urban's a dick. He wins games. Doesn't seem to cheat. If you want to hate him, there are plenty of reasons to do so. If you want to love him, there are plenty of reasons to do so.
He treats star players differently. Big deal. That happens every where in the big boy world.
When does the season start? I hate the offseason because it means we have to read crap from people like SportsByBrooks.
is a very valid statement. Also, SbB's news has already gotten debunked
The term Circle of Trust was used by SI writer Austin Murphy, not Urb himself.
Matt Hayes SN expose has a player detail the use of a "Circle of Trust."
Headline from Sept 2009: Gators Auditioning for "Circle of Trust"
SI writer from Jan 2009: Refers to "Circle of Trust"
I think it is a more than a coincidence.
Today from Meyer: "The Circle of Trust? That didn't happen."
Are you reading the same thing I wrote? I didn't say he didn't have a circle of trust (which isn't a crime anyway). I said that tweet and those articles do not come close to proving that he had a circle of trust, nor does your post, because the phrase "Circle of Trust" never comes out of his mouth. The reporter in one of the articles even says it REMINDS him of a movie involving a circle of trust. You're making whales out of fishes.
along with an article from the local Gainesville Sun that uses it in its headline along with the opening line "But after Saturday, Urban Meyer and Tim Tebow will know who belongs in the Circle of Trust" is some pretty strong evidence
Having a Circle of Trust may not be a big deal, but the question I have is why deny and cover it up, unless the accusations of preferential treatment made by the player are true?
Did you read the Sporting News article? This isn't about the name "Circle of Trust"...it's about the practice of covering up crime, lying to players and the athletic department, illegally manipulating scholarships, and taking down the Florida program as he went.
The evidence SbS tweeted definetly corroborates the statements of the Florida players who talked about people Meyer "trusted," whether or not there was something called the "Circle of Trust."
False. I did read the Sporting News article, and I believe the player in it because I think Meyer is completely sleezy. That's beside the point. The point is that Brooks tweeted this after Meyer denied he had a circle of trust, as proof that he did in fact have a circle of trust. This definitely does NOT corroborate those statements, though it doesn't prove them wrong either. All it proves is that a columnist made a comparison, and he viewed it that way. Who knows, maybe the player in the SN article read those articles when they came out and that's where he got the idea to use this term in talking about the Florida team. It does nothing to prove that Meyer had an elite club at the top by quoting him saying he trusted the Pounceys, and he trusted certain other guys to provide quality depth on the line, because we don't know the context. That statement by itself is no different than Hoke saying there's an expectation for the position, or Matteson saying he let the Dline last year make their own reads. A coach will play the guys he "trusts" to play mistake free football. Again, I think Meyer is a sleeze and I do believe that he favored guys like Harvin. The point of my posts on the matter is that this is bad reporting by Brookes and that he was manipulating what was previously written in what was not even a convincing way. He has since redacted the statement.
There's a difference between evidence and proof. This is not proof of anything; it's just more evidence that Meyer may have, in fact, used the word "trust" to describe the players he favored. That's all I'm saying. Clearly, the former players believed "trust" was the code word, and this reporting just shows some evidence of that.
It doesn't have a quote of Meyer saying, "What we rely on is our Circle of Trust..." or whatever.
As I understood Hayes' story, the "circle of trust" meant players who could get away with bending the rules. In those screen caps, Urban appears to use it to refer to players he can rely on to perform on the field. So, even if he did use the phrase "circle of trust" that does not itself corroborate the accustations Hayes reported.
In other words, this is nothing. Not that I have any love for Urban or OSU. It is interesting that the media is starting to get after him.
Watching him dance for the media is making me a little giddy.
So he had his little cabal of favorites. Plenty of leaders and molders of young peoples' minds do the very same thing.
A circle of trust you don't say.
Don't cross with Jack Byrnes. He will put the bamboo shoots up your fingers.
Can we get this on a shirt? Just replace the "you" with "Urban Meyer"...
I was curious as to what one might look like, so Google provides this:
I could see an Urban Meyer staff meeting devolving into this, once the outer circle had been dismissed and sent to the field for warmups...
The Circle of Trust is all fun and games until somebody gets a boner.
While I don't doubt that Meyer's at least a little shady.... c'mon, it's SportsbyBrooks, so.... yeah.
Still, the Circle of Trust will dovetail nicely with the Sacred Brotherhood already in place at tOSU.
Meh. Kind of weak if you ask me. Meyer is by no means infallible, but this doesn't really ding him" that bad. I also agree that there seems to be blood in the water, making the comparison to Rich Rodriguez at Michigan pretty much on. Rodriguez made enemies with enough folks that it caused him more problems than a head coach has time to deal with. You want your coach focused on everything important to winning games, not mired in defending himself half the time he is awake.
If Ohio State stumbles early (which is a good possibility when transitioning offenses) I'd be willing to bet that the heat gets dialed up a little more. Winning games makes the noise a little more quiet, so it will be interesting to see how they come out this year.
The author of the original article, Matt Hayes, is based in Florida and is a known Gator fan. When Urban was at Florida he wrote multiple articles praising him, but the moment Urban walks away he sours.
While I don't doubt that they may be a little truth in his claims (I feel like every coach gives their star players a little extra attention than the benchwarmers), it can easily be argued that Matt Hayes is simply using his position as a journalist to vent his personal frustrations towards Coach Meyer. It is not hard to sensationalize a story of this nature in order to grab more readers' attention.
I don't think the "Circle of Trust" is a big deal. IMO these are the top two "deals":
1. The story confirmed multiple sources of shady dealings with players. Who cares if some players were treated better, but the fake injuries and limited punishment for players (again, who cares if some were treated better) are concerning.
2. A story this small got a heck of a lot of clicks. This means that there will be more and more reporters interviewing past Gators and continue to bring Urban's perceived character down. This hurts recruiting. Not much, however, since I think many of the recruits Urban gets are star-gazed at his rings.
Based on his/their track record, it's safe to conclude that if Sports By Brooks wrote the "Circle of Trust" existed, then that is incontrovertible evidence that said Circle of Trust never existed.
w/e. The article was way overblown and could have been 400 words to mention the circle of trust, while they treated it like a major scandal with the author ready to do the talk show circuits.
all I can think of is a bunch of over weight Flordia coaches in an elephant walk.
The folks in Florida seem to have taken the article to heart.
mad that Muschamp ain't too great of a coach and he hired Charlie friggin' Tuna to run his offense. The fact that they're still blaming this all on Meyer is ridiculous.
What is the big deal here? What exactly is contraversial?
Is the 'circle of trust' thing wrong in some way?
Or are people getting on him for denying it existed?
How is this news?
I can't believe how much enmity there apparently is for Meyer at UF. He won two national titles there and did not leave for another school, but to get out of coaching (temporarily, at least).
Did they hate him this much when he first left, or was it just when he took the OSU job that he became persona non grata?
The first rule of the Urban Meyer Circle of Trust: You don't talk about the Urban Meyer Circle of Trust.
The second rule of the Urban Meyer Circle of Trust: you DO NOT.....TALK....about the Urban Meyer Circle of Trust.
If you dispute anything in this story because you think Meyer is probably straight, it's time to get a cat scan. The OP is correct that he is "perfect for Ohio". Down there in the bowels of Ohio, they simply don't care about pesky issues like ethics and integrity. ALL they care about is beating Michigan and winning football games. That will ALWAYS be the difference between Michigan and TSIO.
I thought we were in the trust tree.
Treadwell is warming up to OSu and their spread system. Reminds me of the Dunn recruitment in a way. This kid is tailor made for the Michigan offense. Makes no sense to go to OSu...yet it seems it will be a battle.
See my Supernova post about Foster and Treadwell comparing notes. I think they are both down on Ohio. It just that Treadwell is a savvy PR man and Foster is not. Clearly Foster was not excited about getting up early to haul his but out to Ohio. Ohio may have only cooled on Foster because he cooled on them. But If your read Treadwell's comments about each of his visits they were all great. For Ohio, i think his most positive comment was that their stock went up and that it was cool to meet Urban. You have to read his visit comments betwen the lines to see which schools he really likes.
...and of course elevenwarriors bloggers are always delusional.
That was my initial impression about foster, except then Foster tweeted an apology to Ohio State and Brian and others pointed out that Foster isn't being recruited by any of the other regional powers.
This is actually quite awesome. In the new world of social media Urban's lies are much more likely to become exposed and backfire than when he was at FL. There is a reasonable chance we could witness a total meltdown in Ohio over the next couple of years.
FL kids won't want to go to Ohio now that he's bashing Florida...a situation he created.
All the new lies are now quickly exposed. E.g. the sign about Ohio's better education than the school up north was quickly exposed.
All the recruits see this stuff and so do the parents.
A great example was when he told both Treadwell and Foster that they were both #1. Treadwell actually DM'd Foster on Twitter to compare notes. I doubt either is really interested in Ohio at this point.
Last year he was able to quickly pick up a few recruits before the stories started coming out. But, look at all the recruiting battles they've lost to PSU, ND and UM this year. That shouldn't happen. His reputation may be quickly catching up with him.
The implosion may not happen...especially if he can put together a couple good seasons to start. "Winning is the best deodorant (John Madden)." But we could witness a supernova down in Ohio.
Somewhat OT, but I thought it too hilarious not to relay. Today, whilst in the middle of defending Meyer, the guys on 97.1 in Columbus actually brought up how ticked people are going to be with Tress if/when this year's Buckeye team goes undefeated and can't even go to a bowl, let alone the NCG. They are already that far along in the Urban ass-kissing. These are the same guys that trashed him like no one else while he was at Florida. I can't wait for them to have their own version of "The Horror" so that I can just take it all in with a front-row seat...
Should die of gonnorhea and rot in hell.
Would you like a cookie?
If anyone is still reading this thread, what is the whole deal with the circle of trust to begin with? I missed the start of this story entirely so is it just that certain players were more 'trusted' than others? I.e. team leaders, big playmakers, etc? Special players get special treatment? I guess I'm trying to figure out why I'm supposed to be outraged.
SN came out with an expose of Meyer at Florida late last week.
Ironically, Florida’s downfall began at the height of Meyer’s success—the 2008 national championship season. Three seasons of enabling and pandering to elite players—what Meyer’s players called his “Circle of Trust”—began to tear away at what he’d put together.
“I’ve never heard of Circle of Trust before in my life,” Meyer said.
Former players, though, contend it was the foundation of Florida’s culture under Meyer. In the season opener against Hawaii, Meyer said a few elite players (including wideout Percy Harvin, linebacker Brandon Spikes and tight end Aaron Hernandez) would miss the game with injuries. According to multiple sources, the three players—all critical factors in Florida’s rise under Meyer—failed drug tests for marijuana and were sitting out as part of standard university punishment.
By publicly stating the three were injured and not being disciplined, former players say, Meyer was creating a divide between the haves and have-nots on the team.