University of Colorado changes transfer admin process
So if looks like University of Colorado had a very strict transfer process for accepting credits similar to Michigan. Per this article that all charged as soon as Deon was hired. To those who say we'll never change our transfer process maybe this is as glimmer of hope.
December 14th, 2022 at 10:36 PM ^
Maybe there's more to the story, but from the article you linked there is no indication any changes are being made to which transfer students/credits will be accepted. It says they are "implementing a program that will provide an expedited assessment of transferability of academic credits from other institutions to be accepted at CU Boulder" - aka, we'll get back to you faster with an answer.
December 14th, 2022 at 10:41 PM ^
Jugador, I have the exact same interpretation of what was stated.
December 15th, 2022 at 6:54 AM ^
That is a big deal. Haven't you noticed every time Michigan is interested in a transfer the guy is left twisting in the Wind for weeks. During that time other schools know exactly who to recruit against.
December 15th, 2022 at 7:48 AM ^
Did that “waiting for weeks” happen with Olu last year? My guess is “no”. And, to be fair - full disclosure - Olu is / was a Grad Transfer, coincidentally, from another AAU member school.
December 15th, 2022 at 8:31 AM ^
Your “full disclosure” explains everything.
December 15th, 2022 at 9:56 AM ^
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not an idiot, just uninformed on this topic.
The problem is with how Michigan processes transfer credits. We only allow 60 credits transferred in from any school, and unless they have a specific transfer agreement in place, each one of your classes has to be evaluated for equivalence for a U of M class.
This takes a lot of time, and for a lot of students can mean they lose so many credits they would practically be starting over. Not practical for most student athletes transferring from out of state.
Obviously none of this applies to grad transfers like Olu, so your whole point is completely moot.
December 15th, 2022 at 12:35 PM ^
This takes a lot of time, and for a lot of students can mean they lose so many credits they would practically be starting over.
There are bigger consequences than just having to start over, right? I feel like I remember hearing that, something about having to be above certain thresholds based on your year to maintain eligibility, or something like that? Because otherwise, why does it matter? So many of these players are more concerned about the NFL than they are about school anyway, what do they care if they're back at freshman credit levels? I'm sure the school would be happy to provide continued academic support after athletic eligibility ends. So there has to be something else...
December 15th, 2022 at 7:38 AM ^
There has been a change in addition to this. They are accepting all transfer credits from four-year accredited schools in arts and sciences as long as the grade is C-minus or better. New policy does not apply to engineering or business students for now.
This article goes more in-depth:
Last week, CU-Boulder chancellor Phil DiStefano announced a pilot program in which, for the first time, CU will accept all non-remedial transfer credits from four-year accredited schools in arts and sciences (as long as the student received a grade of C-minus or better). For now, it doesn’t apply to engineering or business students, but roughly 70% of the student body (and most student-athletes) are under the arts and sciences umbrella.
Several articles highlight the similar issue for Michigan. Karl Dorrell (the fired Colorado coach) talks about how he only recruited first-year and grad transfers in the article:
In July, now former CU head football coach Karl Dorrell told BuffZone, “We usually are so unsuccessful getting those guys that have transferable units to be eligible to play, so I don’t even mess with it. I know our portal formula is either you’re after your first-year (transfers) or a grad transfer, and I don’t fight about it. I just go for those two types, knowing that in the middle ground, I’m not going to be able to be successful to get them. So, I don’t want to waste my time trying to convince our school (to change the policy).”
Asked if that limits CU’s ability to succeed, Dorrell said, “Sure it does.”
Michigan usually targets the same type of transfers, first-year and graduate. I see this both ways. If you are conferring a degree from your university, and a potential graduate has earned 50% or more of his credits from a university whose standards don't match yours, does that devalue your degree over time? Where should the university draw the line?
December 15th, 2022 at 10:21 AM ^
At first glance, maybe Colorado wants to return to the top tier of football programs. (i.e. - they don't think 1990 was a fluke). Maybe they see that Sanders can bring in the players to make the team competitive, but can't do this with current transfer policy.
December 14th, 2022 at 10:37 PM ^
I like the long game Michigan is playing. Selling out your academic standards and maxing out payments to get athletes who want money first doesn’t strike me as a good long-term strategy for success in college football.
December 14th, 2022 at 10:41 PM ^
Pete, and potentially reducing the academic standards of an institution would seem an exceptionally high price to pay, IMO.
December 14th, 2022 at 10:48 PM ^
They're not reaching academic standards dude. The transfer process is as as outdated as OSUs OL recruiting. It has nothing to do with quality of the tranfer candidate and everything to do with the perceived prestige of the university. We don't accept transfer credits for like for like classes even if it's from Harvard. It's a huge problem beyond athletics.
If Colorado is reforming their process is a glimmer of hope.
December 14th, 2022 at 10:58 PM ^
I, for one, don't want people going to another "lesser" school for 3 years and then transferring to UM for one to get a UM degree. I value my UM degree and don't want it watered down to get a few football transfers. Just because an OSU degree isn't worth a roll of toilet paper, I don't want that to be true of my degree.
December 14th, 2022 at 11:03 PM ^
That's not how it works. Please don't talk if you don't understand our insane admin process.
December 14th, 2022 at 11:50 PM ^
https://transfercredit.ugadmiss.umich.edu/#
It is not arcane or conspiratorial. Admissions has zero interest in turning people away. They just want students to be able to succeed.
Pick a school...say Nebraska. Look up Physics 100 series...yeah that transfers. Try it...not hard. I know many who have transfered and my sibling is an Admissions Dean at a D1 school.
If there are issues they are not articulation issues. Michigan accepts nearly all Harvard classes. You can check that on your phone with the link above.
December 15th, 2022 at 12:38 AM ^
I believe Seth or somebody else said that he had a really hard time with Michigan accepting credits to transfer in and he had As and Bs.
December 15th, 2022 at 2:36 AM ^
You need a 3.8 on average. That means 4 As for every B. Is Seth that good? I don't know the distribution, but these athletes are not transferring as above average probably. I would guess Seth's issue was poor pad level.
December 15th, 2022 at 8:44 AM ^
The discussion about admitting athletes in the portal is silly. If Michigan admits 5 or 10 athletes with marginal academics into a population of 50,000 students, that's 1/1000 or 2/1000 of the total number of students. Michigan could easily absorb the miniscule number of athletes with marginal academics, in addition to all the other students it admits, without impacting academics statistics of the total student population.
December 15th, 2022 at 11:39 AM ^
They didn't care about grades (I got an 18 and a bunch of 16s for the record, which translates to a 4.1 and 4.0s in American GPA). They wouldn't transfer credits I took in French, at the University of Paris IV (aka La Sorbonne), the Harvard of the Francophone World, because Michigan didn't offer the same classes. They were willing to take them as general credits, 1 to 3 credits per class, but not towards a French Minor or towards a History Major. My problem was I dropped out of the program I went to study abroad on, and took regular courses at Paris IV that interested me: History of Paris through its Architecture, History of the Alphabet, History of French Cinema, and a required French language course with a phonetics component.
They did let me design my own 1-credit history course afterwards where I wrote a paper about places named for King Arthur, and why they were all just tourist bullshit. This was back in 2001.
December 15th, 2022 at 12:03 PM ^
You should have been admitted on a holistic review of your application with holistic meaning whatever the admission committee wants it to mean.
December 15th, 2022 at 8:43 AM ^
Whenever I read a post like this, my first reaction is, please...help us understand. But include the part that explains why you understand the admin process better than everyone else. Do you work in that department?
December 15th, 2022 at 12:34 AM ^
Transfers put butts in seats. Attrition happens, Michigan needs transfers. Transfers also match Michigan's equity goals, and largely service the taxpayers of Michigan. It's smart to go to a cheaper school, and transfer in. Transfer students are an asset, not a liability.
And contrary to posts here, transfer apps are accepted at a 41% clip... so it isn't hard if you have the grades and the right classes. See post above... most all decent classes (Math, Physics, English transfer.)
There is more than enough core requirements to stamp a Michigan imprimatur on grads and protect our pretensions.
https://admissions.umich.edu/apply/transfer-applicants/transfer-student-profile
December 15th, 2022 at 8:44 AM ^
You really thought that all of M’s players had a 3,86 GPA or better? Your degree has been “watered down” for as long as you have had it. You may be interested in purchasing the Ambassador Bridge. I can get you a loan with a real low interest rate.
December 15th, 2022 at 12:35 AM ^
A lot of the transfer headaches are not academically related, they are more paperwork related. UM won't accept classes that prospective transfer students have had at other institutions unless they are exactly the same. As for making payments to athletes, I'm not sure how that sells out academic standards. You can still get money and get a decent GPA in college. Not doing anything NIL related while most of the Big Ten and nation do also does not seem like a good long-term strategy for success.
December 14th, 2022 at 10:38 PM ^
The article states the REVIEW process will change - primarily to accelerate the evaluation process of potential transfer credits. No mention was made that the standards to accept transfer credits is - or will be - modified.
Colorado is an AAU member school.
December 14th, 2022 at 10:42 PM ^
If you read the whole article and look at the quotes it's heavily implied. Akai consider the number of transfers coming in now versus last years. What they said is an insight to reheat is happening now. President is not going to outright say they are bending the rules now but this is pretty damn close.
December 14th, 2022 at 10:50 PM ^
Why would anyone think that something happening at U. Colorado would affect anything happening at U. Michigan? One of these is not like the other, methinks.
December 14th, 2022 at 10:56 PM ^
Boulder is a fantastic university and anyone would be proud to go there. They have very high academic standards and are more similar to us than some may admit.
If they are changing their transfer process is possible we could too. Santa may be already working on it.
December 14th, 2022 at 10:59 PM ^
Not that US News’ rankings are the ‘end all be all’ of college rankings - but, Colorado is at the same level as South Florida and Auburn.
Santa Ono might want to be creative and supportive in many ways - but, he also has Trustees, staff, and alumni to deal with.
And, as a point of reference, I believe the lowest academic ranking according to US News of a B1G AAU school is Iowa, which is ranked 83rd. Boulder is a fine school - not denigrating their academics - but, their ranking according to US News is 97th.
December 15th, 2022 at 5:53 AM ^
You mean the ranking system that many schools have started to pull out of because it is a horrible methodology? To include the Michigan law school? I have worked with grads from all over the country and Michigan is neither special academically or in my top ten in terms of where I have pulled recruits. Our collective arrogance is not earned. And yes, I am an alumni, just an honest one.
December 15th, 2022 at 6:54 AM ^
Dude, you can tell Colorado is in a different tier just by looking closely at their student section during games. It's in the eyes and overall presentation.
I'm serious. Try it some time. A few years back the DetNews / Freep had an article with 50+ pictures of UM and MSU students. I'd swear I could tell the difference without looking at the T-shirts / sweatshirts.
December 15th, 2022 at 7:55 AM ^
Isn't that judging a book by its cover?
December 15th, 2022 at 8:02 AM ^
It absolutely is. :) I do it all the time. I've missed a few.
December 15th, 2022 at 9:58 AM ^
Edit, someone below noted acceptance rate.
December 15th, 2022 at 12:09 PM ^
UC Boulder accepts 84.2% of applicants.
Michigan accepts 26.1% of applicants.
December 14th, 2022 at 10:56 PM ^
Not interested in having Michigan emulate a school that’s ranked around 100 and that has an 80% acceptance rate.
December 14th, 2022 at 11:06 PM ^
Besides your obvious snobbery, your missing the point. Here's a school with a similar situation and they changed their admin policy, we could too.
Ask Seth, it has nothing to do with it prestige. If you don't understand our transfer admin process please STFU.
December 14th, 2022 at 11:15 PM ^
*you’re
I understand Michigan’s transfer process.
There’s no snobbery. The fact is that Michigan is an elite educational institution by any metric. Colorado? Not so much.
The situations are not similar.
December 15th, 2022 at 12:25 AM ^
US News Ranking does not mean an institution is bad or good. The ranking system is a joke. That's why schools are dropping out of submitting their scores. When one of the criteria is rate your peer institutions, do you really think they will rank their competition well?
I have a Michigan degree and yet I don't kid myself. There is not a lot of difference between the #25 ranked school and the #100. This isn't the 1980s when there was a big difference. Many schools these days use the same curriculum and have excellent professors too. And before you think that there is a huge difference in students, think again. My own kid turned Michigan to go to a #100+ school on a full ride. There are lots of her friends doing the same thing at many other schools.
And yes, CU is a good school. One of the best aerospace engineering schools in the country, for example.
December 15th, 2022 at 1:34 AM ^
I'm a big believer in working hard, getting good grades, and creating success after graduation. Internships, rotational programs, and mentorship can play a pivotal role in career success. I've seen a lot of very successful people that went to marginal schools.
But to suggest that #25 and #100(+) isn't a big difference just isn't true. The quality of education and the opportunities presented from it are undeniable. If anything, the gap has widened in the arms race. Not refuting or judging your kid's decision, especially with how expensive UM is for out of state, but let's not pretend that American University provides the same education as U of M.
December 15th, 2022 at 2:12 AM ^
Proof that the level of education is that different? Again, if school A has the same curriculum as school B, and there are good professors at both schools, it's doubtful there is a huge difference.
I had a Finance professor in my MBA program which is ranked in the #25-#30 range. He was unintelligible in class. He now teaches at Kellogg (Northwestern), the #3 school. Hope they're enjoying his level of instruction.
As for financial success, your major probably matters more than your school. Who is more likely to have a higher earnings potential? A Supply Chain or Finance major at the #100 school, or the History and English major at #25?
I have friends that went to Wharton that are struggling, and others that went to Washington State, Vermont, and Occidental that are killing it.
Your sucess is likely more attributable to your field of study and personal ambition, as you said.
December 15th, 2022 at 7:02 AM ^
"Studies show" that a smart kid (like yours, probably) will do fine in life regardless of where they go to college, but the numbers (e.g. SAT scores) indicate that there's a significant difference between Michigan and Colorado. It of course works in the other direction. CalTech, to take an extreme, is markedly better than Michigan.
If your peers are less capable, the class will cover less of the textbook that's used everywhere. Side note: Scan the faculty rosters of MAC schools. You'll find plenty of Ivy League PhDs. There's a horrible imbalance of PhDs to tenured faculty jobs.
Another side note: Quality of instruction tends to be overrated. A degree's value is based largely on the quality of students at the school. Surviving Michigan engineering is considered more impressive than surviving Colorado's engineering.
On a personal level, good decision with the full ride.
December 15th, 2022 at 1:39 PM ^
I came back to say something similar, but you've done a better job than I, no notes 😀 🤷
I'll just add that its also the level of competition, iron sharpens iron etc. I went to a not great rural high school in MI, was near the top of my class while partying my balls off. When I got to UM it was a whole different ball game. Although I did still party my balls off lololol.
December 14th, 2022 at 11:21 PM ^
San Diego, did you read the link? If so, what policy did Colorado change - besides accelerating the review process?
December 15th, 2022 at 6:12 AM ^
i don’t “understand the transfer admin process,” but then again, i’m not in admissions, so i don’t, you know, need to.
what i do understand is that it was hard to get into michigan. admission was, in some respects, the hardest part. does that mean i think it should be hard for everyone? not necessarily. it does mean that i think passing an entry-level math or physics or writing class at a lower-level institution shouldn’t mean the same as it does here.
if you can’t see the danger in accepting “i passed sociology 101 at auburn, i should get credit for it here” without meaningful review, i’m not sure what to tell you. as someone else has suggested here, it’s not a simple question of prestige. it’s a question of admitting students that we believe can succeed - i was admitted as an undergrad because admissions thought i could succeed. i don’t think it’s inappropriate to put transfer students to that same level of scrutiny.
December 14th, 2022 at 11:19 PM ^
Glimmer of hope? Why would you hope that the University of Michigan would lower their acceptance standards?
December 15th, 2022 at 1:04 AM ^
So Colorado is willing to go back to the days of them being a pretty rogue program, all for a few more wins.
December 15th, 2022 at 6:26 AM ^
There's a lot of ppl talking out they ass abut the UM Xfer process and the admisions office in A2 who have no damn idea how it works.
Now, I've only Xferred psych 101 from a CC in NYS to A2 but I had no problem doing that as I filled out the paperwork and got an A in the class back in 1996. My wife took several course at WCC that Xferred to A2 and I taught plenty of students at WCC who xferred those physics course credits to A2.
If you don't show that the course matches the curriculum in A2 in detail, they won't grant credit for a course that isn't offered in A2. They also won't xfer more than 60 (ish IDK the exact #) of credits to A2. There is nothing aggregious about any of this IMO.