Tom Lemming on DPJ and Oliver Martin
February 11th, 2017 at 12:55 PM ^
Many people define talent in a similar way the NFL does by who's best at the combine battery of tests...size, strength, speed, agility, how you look with your shirt off. etc. This is basically athleticism. But, in general being the best athlete doesn't neccessarily make you the best football player. Phenomenal athletes are guys like Jabrill Peppers, Michael Vick, Vernon Davis, Adrian Peterson, etc. They are all phenomenal football players. But, you don't have to run as fast, jump as high, bench press as much, be as jacked, etc. as they are to be the best football player. These sorts of traits seduce us into thinking they are more talented becasue they look so good. But, the data comparing the NFL combine tests and NFL playing success is not great.
Dr. Stuart McGill notable said:
The best athletes rarely outperform their peers in pre-season testing like bench pressing, squatting, jumping, and sprinting. Their distinguishing qualities are motor control. The ability to exert strength quickly, deactivate muscle quickly, and optimally project forces throughout body linkage is characteristic of this skill.
IMO this is what talent really is when it comes to sport participation. So, it just depends on how you define talent. If you define talent by size, speed, strength, agility, and looking jacked, then yes DPJ is super talented. But, if you define it as McGill does, then it doens't matter what your 40 yd dash, vertical jump, or bench press is. And, that definition of talent between these two players remains to be seen until they both play on the same level against the same competition. All things being equal, having athleticism helps, but all things are never equal, and there's more to talent than athleticism.
February 11th, 2017 at 5:41 PM ^
True. But having seen both play in person, sometimes you can easily tell when someone has the potential to be a superstar. DPJ is that. Martin is not. In my opinion. Can't wait to see them all on the field. Going to be a fun few years.
February 11th, 2017 at 8:06 PM ^
Do you think anyone looked at Tom Brady in HS and said he has the potential to be a superstar? We are easily seduced by athleticism, which DPJ clearly has. But, when he's so much more athletic than his peers (in HS) it's difficult to assess his talent. Its not until he's playing against guys of similar athleticism that we can really tell. (You could make this argument between college & NFL as well for truely superior athletes)
Imagine a guy who eventually becomes a superior college athlete (but may lack true football talent) when you compare them to the run of the mill HS football player. He can easily overcome his HS peers with his athleticism, which may or may not translate at the next level, because he's so much bigger, faster, and stronger than them, without really having to be a great football player.
February 11th, 2017 at 10:30 PM ^
I know all of this and I agree with the larger point. The great thing as always is we are going to find out soon who is right. I'm going with DPJ over Martin. Martin isn't even second in my opinion. And it's not just about athleticism. It's based around that plus a few other things, notably opportunity.
February 12th, 2017 at 8:56 AM ^
I would agree with you too in the sense that if I had to pick one, it would certainly be DPJ. My only point is that we don't know yet, and what we do know to date is that DPJ is clearly more athletic. So with a lack of other pertinant information we'll take the more athletic guy because there's more to work with. My only point is that we don't really know if he has football talent because he hasn't really been forced to use any yet because he's so much more athletic than his HS peers.
February 11th, 2017 at 9:57 AM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 9:58 AM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 10:01 AM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 10:13 AM ^
DPJ would look awesome as a CB were he actually to play the position. With his height, speed and leaping ability? But I doubt we will ever have the opportunity to find out.
February 12th, 2017 at 3:57 PM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 9:58 AM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 10:05 AM ^
That would now be the 3rd person I've seen write something up that Oliver Martin may be the best receiver in this class. Someone else comnpared him to Northwestern's Carr.
February 11th, 2017 at 10:12 AM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 10:43 AM ^
I'd say they're equally unlikely for the same reason. We finally have quality depth at both WR and CB.
February 11th, 2017 at 10:58 AM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 11:23 AM ^
Why do you think AT be more likey to play both ways?
February 11th, 2017 at 12:13 PM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 12:27 PM ^
Fair enough.
February 11th, 2017 at 10:14 AM ^
Martin is the Third highly recruited Iowa WR we have signed in recent years. The other two have worked out quite nicely. I'll bet Martin works like the rest. Cheers & Go Blue!!
February 11th, 2017 at 10:16 AM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 11:33 AM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 10:27 AM ^
More importantly how do our 4 WRs compare to Alabama's star studded group of 4 in terms of jungle beats?
February 11th, 2017 at 10:48 AM ^
Tom Lemming (PrepStar) & Allen Wallace (SuperPrep) were the guys in recruiting before the internet destroyed them like the rest of print media. They relied on selling their magazines and did not adapt to the new world. Tom Lemming even had a 1-900 number recruiting hotline where you got charged $1.79/minute for his recruiting scoops. Even in the year 2000, Lemming was still trying to shill his magazine and 1-900 number. Rivals got started, blew up, and Mike Farrell made himself the self-appointed "godfather of recruiting."
Tom Lemming was on ESPN.com for a little in their early days, but they ditched him pretty quickly. He used to have this Roadtrip series where he would visit a different prospect in every part of the country and write it up as a postcard.
February 11th, 2017 at 10:49 AM ^
+1 Informative.
Usually Lemmings are killed by throwing themselves off a cliff, so it's nice to see the internet kill one for once...
February 11th, 2017 at 11:21 AM ^
Many years ago I read something about the economics of crowd behavior, and there was a quote I thought was amusing: "I've never actually seen a lemming, but when I do I'm certain I'll see more than one."
/pointless contribution of the day
February 11th, 2017 at 10:33 PM ^
or owing a gambling debt to some Disney producers.
http://gizmodo.com/lemmings-dont-commit-mass-suicide-disney-pushed-them…
February 12th, 2017 at 9:50 AM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 10:41 AM ^
year two or even years three and four? Like Chris Evans, could we now say after his freshman performance that he's a five star although he was only ever ranked a mid to higher four star player?
Lets get some accountability from the ranking services.
February 11th, 2017 at 10:58 AM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 11:04 AM ^
I mean, are we gonna redo the 2000 NFL draft and have Tom Brady go 1st overall? When you're projecting how players will do in the future no one is perfect, whether it be the recruiting services, college coaches, or NFL GMs.
February 11th, 2017 at 11:06 AM ^
They should have at least a two year look back and see well, 247 you were totally full of crap on 40% of your ratings.
February 11th, 2017 at 11:23 AM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 2:57 PM ^
Called accountability brah, meritocracy.
February 11th, 2017 at 11:07 AM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 11:34 AM ^
Unless they are truly a freak like Peppers. Though I do think some of his punt returns were impacted by just finishing a defensive series. Hopefully, our depth is good enough that we can have our guys focus on one side of the ball.
Can't wait to see this class in action, especially the WRs.
GO BLUE!!
February 11th, 2017 at 12:28 PM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 11:53 AM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 12:13 PM ^
Doubtful. If anything we need safeties, not CB, we're incredibly loaded at CB.
February 11th, 2017 at 1:02 PM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 1:03 PM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 1:04 PM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 1:33 PM ^
up vote to you sir
February 11th, 2017 at 1:34 PM ^
They'll probably burn a lot more couches in frustration than they will in celebration going forward. I hope Groucho Mark doesn't quit or get canned anytime soon. At least not until JH kicks his arrogant ass on the football field several times.
February 14th, 2017 at 1:20 PM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 1:30 PM ^
February 11th, 2017 at 1:59 PM ^