A Thought
I've always thought that, just maybe, the Michigan-Ohio State games meant more in Ohio than in Michigan. Not to say that it's not as important to Michigan fans, but that in general the rivalry is on an entirely different level in Ohio than it is here.
I feel like the MSU game is more hyped up here and that more people are ignorant to the tradition with OSU... it feels like you have to be an alum or a real diehard Michigan fan to know that State is not our biggest rival. But in Ohio there is no question. Anywhere in the state, any time of year, any time a guy in a hat with a block M and a guy in a hat with a block O meet, something is going to be said.
In elementary school, we were pulled from class the Friday before the MSU game and we picked sides and sang the fight songs and whatnot. Those of us who were actual Michigan fans would make derisive comments about how State wasn't our real rival, but they fell on deaf ears. I know for a fact that in parts of Ohio this is done for the Michigan game.
You can say it's because they lack an in state rival, but I don't particularly care. I just want to know, what can be done to raise the profile of the rivalry in Michigan?
a win would help
like the sig
We can raise the profile of the rivalry by actually beating OSU; that would go a long way to restore the luster to The Game. I wouldn't be surprised if alot of M fans have started to become apathetic to the series with OSU's recent dominance.
When UM went 10-2-1 against OSU from 1998-2000, OSU fans didn't get the least bit apathetic to the rivalry. If anything, they hated all things Michigan and Ann Arbor even more than usual.
I see the situation for RR to be similar to that of Tressel when he went to OSU. Tressel replaced a coach who had gotten stale and predictable. He updated a program in serious need of updating. RR is in the same situation at UM. The big difference is that Tressel walked into a lot more stable personnel situation than RR did, particularly having a QB who could actually run a major college offense.
Also, Tressel is a better coach than Carr was the last few years. Similarly, I think RR is a better coach than Tressel, and the results will reflect RR's superiority as soon as RR gets the personnel situation to which I referred earler straightened out.
I truly think this is the year when UM fans get to say, "the Buck stops here."
We played OSU 13 times in 3 years?
Well played sir..
Playing them in night games and wearing Maize jerseys for one
edit: apparently I must make a serious point to avoid losing points
I agree that winning will make the rivalry stand out more and raise it to the forefront of everyone's mind. However, that being said, the reason the UM-MSU "rivalry" seems to be larger is because of the location. It APPEARS to be because of State's semi-inferiority complex. You know that every one of your friends that goes to State tries to talk Smack to you and that it bothers you, at least a little. The constant trash talking (much like that between an older and younger brother!) keeps this "rivalry" on the front of intranet especially in Michigan.
That being said, this website can sum up my argument to some extent. I personally get upset every time Sparton posts some idiotic comment or some sarcastic remark, much more so than I would if one of the Michigan fans here would (not that Michigan fans are capable of being stupid!). The reason it appears to at least be on par with OSU is because MSU has fans willing to take time out of their day to come troll around, and constantly remind us of what annoys us so much about State. Not to say that the whole Michigan fan base visits MGoBlog, but similar actions whether they be in person or on the intranet contribute to the misconception of the UM-MSU "rivalry."
No smoke or metallica? Well screw that idea then.
There are a heck of a lot more MSU alums in the state of Michigan than OSU alums. There are probably more MSU alums than UM alums, even. As long as that's the case, UM-MSU will probably always be the more significant game to a larger group of people in the state. I think that mostly everyone, however, recognizes that OSU is our larger rival, they're just not as personally interested in that game. For example, I know that Pitt is a bigger rival to PSU than we are, but I couldn't care less about a Pitt-PSU game compared to when we play them. Lots of MSU alums = more interest in the UM-MSU game.
Thing is, you'd expect the Detroit media to cover the Ohio State game in a way that shows it's importance. But they don't. It's covered like you might expect any big game to be covered, but there is no impact.
on the same day, Michigan State also has a game, and that it also has to get at least some coverage?
When it is UM-MSU, there is no other game that carries much interest in the Detroit media's market.
True, but again that doesn't change how the game is treated. It's never "THIS IS THE BIGGEST GAME OF THE YEAR FOR THE WOLVERINES, EVERYTHING IS ON THE LINE!!!!" which it should be. Instead it's "Michigan and Ohio State face off in their annual rivalry game, one of the fiercest in sports". It's actually that kind of detached tone that bothers me most... I don't care if we have to split the limelight with State, there could be some passion or excitement in the reporting on it.
You have to expect Detroit based media to cover the Michigan v. Michigan State game more just based on the target market. The majority of their viewers are going to be either Michigan or Michigan State fans, thus a lot of people care about that game. Going on that same idea, not many viewers in Detroit other than Michigan fans care about the UofM v. OSU game other than making dumb comments if UofM losses.
I feel everyone knows that the UM/OSU rivalry is a lot bigger. But in my case, I have a lot of family/friends that are MSU students or alumni, thus the game also carries the chance to brag at the next family party or get together. I can't really say the same about OSU. Don't get me wrong, I understand the importance of the OSU game and what a win would mean, I just don't know anyone personally that I could talk trash to after.
I disagree about people in the Detroit area not caring about the M vs. OSU game. Some people are always dumb about losses.
I'd prefer the UM/MSU rivalry to not be raised; I want it to be something akin to the "rivalry" between a boxer and a punching bag, as it was at times from 2002-2007.
EDIT: oops, I missed your point badly.
To raise the UM/OSU rivalry... I don't know. UM needs to win a few. Also, it would probably require OSU grads moving to Michigan in hordes.
"Also, it would probably require OSU grads moving to Michigan in hordes."
Isn't Michigan experiencing enough brain drain as it is? An influx of OSU grads could only make it worse.
hey-o
Living in Cleveland for a little over a year now, I can assure you that there's nothing more that Ohioans want than to see Michigan lose, whether or not it's an impactful game to OSU. They have so little to cheer about here, that they actively root for Michigan to lose. It's weird.
I was at my bosses house for the Fourth and, knowing that I was going to be there, his brother showed up in an Appalachian State shirt. I told him that if I knew we were being so friendly, I would've worn an SEC shirt.
"You can say it's because they lack an in state rival, but I don't particularly care."
If there was no MSU to split allegiances in this state, you can bet your ass this rivalry would be even more bitter (than it already is).
I agree but not only do they lack an instate rival, they lack a whiny instate rival like MSU. Having MSU have such a Napoleon complex (i know that analogy doesn't actually mean what I want it to, but bare with me) means that we get hated on more thoroughly by everyone around us when we play OSU. Which in turn, increases our level of arrogance, and that means that people care less. If MSU fans would get over themselves and root for us against OSU, i think we'd lower our arrogance, and get more into it.
If that made any sense, that'd be sweet.
I think the reason that OSU is so into our rivalry is that they don't have an in-state rival. We have MSU and ND, but what do they have? Maybe PSU? MSU? Even if we minimize the hate that we have for our other two rivals, we still have to spread it around, while OSU can concentrate on one team to hate.
... I was pretty indifferent to what OSU did in other games. Michigan owned them and that was good enough for me. But now that the tables have been turned, I find I want the Bucks to lose every time out. I want misery to rain down on them. E.g., I hate Florida. Detest the smugness of Urban Meyer. Hate everything about the Gators. But I was cheering for joy at every humiliating beatdown moment they put on the Buckeyes in the title game a couple years ago.
Anyone else in this camp? Michigan's recent struggles against the evil down south fired up the rivalry for you?
I’m from ohio and I’ve always wanted ostate to lose every game even when we were winning b/c even when they lose their fans are still obnoxious. But to go along with what you said I use to hate Florida myself but since they’ve embarrassed ostate on national TV win the bucks were the favorite, I’ve grown to like them (it also helps that we beat them). I also want Tebow to win the Heisman so all that “Archie Griffin the only 2x winner,” BS will be over…Go Tebow!....or Bradford!
osu fans are deranged
don't overcomplicate matters
I think this has a lot to do with it. What other rivalries have fans that devote so much negative energy to disliking the opposing team? Not very many.
Throw in the fact that many Michigan students/alums are afraid to venture down to Columbus and it has a foreign feel to it. I hate Ohio State plenty but if supporting the Wolverines in Columbus means I get my car trashed by some ex or future convicts, I'm gonna say fuck it.
Seriously, I don't want the team trashing my car either.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, and I realize I'm going to get negative points for bringing this up, but I would stand to guess you'll get a lot more readership for this post (as well as avoid re-posts of a similar topic) if you use a more informative subject for your Post than "A Thought."
maybe he was going for the curiosity-killed-the-cat route of marketing.
"a thought? what could he be thinking about? dear god, must click on link!"
My vote is for Big East Cincinnati. It's the only other BCS School in Ohio.
They should be on OSU's schedule every year.
...and doesn't leap to another school, I'm sure they'll get a series going even if it doesn't meet annually.
I would love for Cincinnati to become a football power/rival to OSU.
We might loose a recruit to them once in a while, but the state of Ohio would be better off without just OSU and a bunch of MAC schools.
The state and population can support an increase in size/enrollment.
I also don't really think it would hurt Michigan's rivalry with OSU (we already have MSU and ND) perhaps it would give the OSU troglodytes some perspective.
it actually depends on the sport. i think you'd give different answers.
football: OSU
basketball: MSU
hockey: MSU
obviously, football is the most hyped sport, so therefore the rivalry is bigger, but in both hockey and basketball, if i had to choose between beating OSU or MSU, i'd pick MSU every time. don't get me wrong, i'd still hate OSU with an unreasonable fury, but i'd rather beat MSU.
That actually applies to OSU as well to some extent. I live in central Ohio and know that OSU basketball fans don't get all that excited about the "rivalry" between OSU and UM on the hardwood.
Having lived in Columbus for over 5 years now I can say with some certainty that OSU fans do get excited about the rivalry between OSU and UM in basketball. It isn't to the same level as the excitement in football but I think that has more to do with the difference in the level of interest between the two sports. Course it could have something to do with the fact that I work at a children's hospital which is affiliated with OSU's med school. Perhaps we simply have more hardcore OSU fans here...
I'll cosign on this, the only difference is that interest in College basketball in Columbus is slim.
at the UM-OSU basketball game in Ann Arbor this year, the intensity was definitely elevated (maybe it was the THROWBACK UNIFORMS!?!), but definitely not on-par with the football rivalry. It just has a different feel, although both schools have had their moment in the sun in basketball, they are both football schools. Now and forever.
Careful what you wish for.
I am actually proud that our fanbase, for the most part, can put this rivalry/game into perspective while at the same time respecting the rivalry/game with a touch of class. I really respect OSU fans that I meet that can actually get passed their hatred for Michigan. This group constitutes roughly 1% of their fanbase.
Warning, generalizations upcoming.
I am proud that our fanbase doesn't key/stone cars with Ohio plates, punch random OSU fans in the face on game day, shoot OSU fans with urin-filled squirt guns, throw cocktails on old ladies wearing OSU gear, etc.
I watched the App State debacle at the UM alumni bar in Pacific Beach which just happened to be right next to the OSU bar. As that game entered the 4th Q OSU fans started piling in to bask in whatever glory they thought they deserved to bask in for doing nothing more than attend a lesser University. One neanderthal actually walked around in an OSU tanktop (stay classy) barking "Fuck you Michigan" and challenging every UM fan he saw to fight, I kid you not. As we left the bar OSU fans had formed a human tunnel outside the bar to laugh and take pictures of every frustrated Michigan fan leaving the bar.
Now that I live 2000 miles from the epicenter it's given me a more perspective on this rivalry. I still get the occasional "Michigan sucks!" from random OSU fan on the west coast but things seem a bit more civilized being geographically farther away from it all and I appreciate that.
Exactly what would "raise the profile of the rivalry in Michigan" mean? What type of behavior are you seeking exactly?
It's not about behavior, obviously as has been mentioned there aren't many OSU fans in Michigan. My problem is strictly with coverage.
I have to shamefully admit, growing up a Michigan fan in Chicago, I thought the ND v Michigan rivalry was the biggest deal until about the time i was in high school and I figured it out a little better.
The intensity of the rivalries are a function of where you are and what the other dominant fan bases are.
ESPN et al have been so head-over-heels in love with the SEC in recent years, and in turn they've been bashing the Big Ten pretty hard. Maybe some of that is deserved. Let's face it... the Big Ten's showing in bowl games has not been particularly stellar of late. I think all this contributes to the "lessening" of The Game. If the whole conference steps it up, such that we return to the days of The Game being for all the Big Ten marbles (and perhaps a BCS title game berth), then the media jumps back on board.
In reality, it hasn't really been that long... thinking (obviously) of 2006, then 2007 when a UM win over OSU would have ruined them. But you know how sports works: What have you done for me lately.... no, I said LATELY. (Hehehe..)
Back home on the local scene, UM fans are simply in a funk. Call it our version of the Cooper years. A win..... particularly in a year when UM is the underdog (and we surely will be again this year).... would help. When you lose year after year after year, it's easy to temporarily lose interest.
Oh, and I do think it matters that OSU has no in-state rivalry, particularly as bitter as UM-MSU can be.
OSU sucks. (Just had to say it.)
Perhaps I'm biased because I grew up on the East Coast and I live in the DC area, but there's no comparison in football. The OSU game is bigger than the MSU game. Perhaps it's a function of the OSU game being the season ender; perhaps it's because Michigan-MSU has been so unbalanced since Bo arrived, but it's a fact. AND, it's the way the national media treats the rivalries too. There are many who think OSU-Michigan rivalry is the biggest in sport in the US. Hard to think of anyone who thinks that about MSU-UM.
Michigan has 3 rivalries: O$U, MSU and ND, while the Luckeyes only have one. Secondly, over half the state of Michigan aren't even UM fans. UM attracts more out of state students and many graduates seem to live abroad. MSU is mostly Mich residents and grads tend to stay in-state. ND also seems to have a vocal minority in-state, with Catholic school kids and people in the SW corner of the state. Like others have mentioned, the MSU game is something you can tease your MSU neighbors and co-workers about. I rarely talk to any OSU fans (which I consider an intellectual blessing).
Frankly, I think it's intellectually dishonest to claim it's "less important" to Michigan fans. It's like those who say "We don't care what MSU does" but then obsess over being better than them.
This is the problem with a large section of the Michigan fanbase, they choose to obsess over how little they care about everyone else to the point where it's clear they care too much.
It's intellectually dishonest to claim that the rivalry means less to us? How? If anything, I'd say it's dishonest to claim that we obsess about the rivalry anywhere near as much as OSU fans do. All you have to do is spend a little time in each state to see it for yourself.
Anyway, if you're suggesting that our less-passionnate attitude to the rivalry is in any way related to our current losing streak to them, I'd say that's ridiculous. They were probably even more obsessed with us during the Cooper years than they are now.
I'm suggesting it's intellectually dishonest to put on airs by saying "We really don't care about Ohio State as much as they care about us" and then next week Brian posts another picture of a Buckeye fan trashing Michigan and people spend six hours commenting on it. And their comments are barely distinguishable from the ones at Eleven Warriors.
MSU is the same way. It's how some fans here show much they care, by pretending to not give a damn about any of our rivals. This place reads like this a lot of the time
"Sparty? LOL Go away, we really hate Ohio $tate! You're our little brother, we don't give a damn about you!"
followed by
"Ugh, go away Bucktrash! Don't you know we don't need you? We have other rivals we care about just as much like Michigan State!"
Sure, things like the Makers Mark billboard come along and remind us how much we hate Ohio State. And that attracts the Buckeye trolls and gets us fired up, irrationally in many cases. Then they eventually go away and we go back to our non-obsessive lives.
Would you rather have somebody in Michigan's student section at some random game ask what time it is, just so we can yell "And Ohio State still sucks?" That's one thing that keeps the Columbus populace focused on us all season.
But, unlike Buckstache fans, it's true--at least in my case--that there are way too many other fish for us to fry before getting to The Game (another rivalry game or three, hoping we don't choke away the game we're currently watching, etc) to obsess over one team 24/7. Even that one.
You call it putting on airs. I think it's the truth. It's the biggest rivalry, but it's not THAT much bigger than the ND or MSU games. And for most of us, it's not the kind of year-round obsession that it apparently is for them. Our attention is divided. During the offseason, for instance, I usually find myself thinking more about the ND game than anything, because it's so early in the season. And because the State game is so early this year, I'm going to be thinking a lot about that one once ND is done. When November rolls around, yeah, I'll get into the OSU game. But prior to them we've got other games to worry about.
While State's rivalry game is with us I would have to rate them no higher than third on the pecking order for Michigan.
OSU at the top followed by ND.
State would be down even further if Dumbantonio wasn't such a jerk. I actually use to cheer for State when they weren't playing the Maize and Blue but, between Mark D. and all of the extremely obnoxious State fans I have encountered lately I have moved them back to #3. It's amazing the amount of pissing MSU fans have done after one win. I guess if you lose seven straight one win is pretty big.
There are sev. aspects to this observation. First, I think that because Michigan is a better school, with more out of state students, and a higher percentage of the student body being apathetic to sports in general, it will never be quite the same from Michigan. Michigan will always be more blase. There is more to do in AA. There also are pro teams in Detroit to root for.
In Columbus, a much bigger town than AA, OSU is the de facto pro team, more so than the Browns or the Bengals. There is a huge population around Columbus. In AA, loyalties are split with the Lions (gag,) as well as the Tigers, Pistons, and Red Wings. Not so in Columbus, for the most part.
For an analogy, I think of USC fans in LA. They follow their team, they love the MNC, but they just aren't a-holes the way the bucknuts are. They are classier than that. Honestly, I like the class of Michigan fans. I don't want Michigan fans to pour beer on OSU fans, or to burn couches, or to roll cars. Leave that to the State schools (OSU & MSU.) Also, I can't articulate this perfectly, but there is something about tolerating and disdaining and smiling at your rivals that infuriates them. It was sweet joy when Michigan was beating all the Bruce teams. With relatives in Cleveland, and one attending OSU currently, it was once delicious to smile and say, "better luck next year." I look forward to this feeling returning soon.