Being a CEO? Soon you will have to be a partner in a firm to afford season tickets. Fire Brandon.
well that's just, like, your opinion, man
Being a CEO? Soon you will have to be a partner in a firm to afford season tickets. Fire Brandon.
LOL, that's great. Seriously this shit is way too expensive, G!
If you were the head coach, what changes would you make, when would you make them, and how do you motivate the team for the rest of the season?
You and me both.
Funk is out immediately. I would have him clean out his office tomorrow morning and bring in proven commodity in working with linemen, not someone with Funk's laackluster credentials.
the special teams?
Michigan will only go as far as the coordinators allow them to. Hoke is not a great coach, he needs to surround himself with a great staff and coordinators to be successful. Hoke is an excellent recruiter, says the right things, and reinstated the "Ft. Schembechler" atmosphere. Hoke will never publicly state that there needs to be a change but I believe him to be a smart enough a man to realize his strengths and weaknesses. This is his "dream job," I would doubt he would let a coordinator threaten it. If he is loyal to a fault and lets Borges and Funk take him down in flames, then he deserves to lose his job. I'd say lets save the "Fire Hoke" talk until we give him a chance to make some changes in the offseason. Making any staff changes at this point in the season does nothing but create more instability.
All teammates need to learn about accountability now. You don't react to failure "later". Yes u accomplish something. Telling the team including miss saint is worth a message. We still have a few games left. I thought anything less than a big ten.... Blah blah blah. Show that you mean it Brady. Walk the walk.
excusing the coaching staff based on youth, talent, etc. the same people who didn't think that was valid under the previous coaching staff? If that is the case, than those individuals are flat out hypocrites. The o-line play is as bad as those defenses were, you can't simply excuse it away. I wouldn't be opposed to firing Funk right now, and think Borges should be looked at long and hard in the offseason. Mattison should also get some criticism, because his defense has done some uncharacterstic things this season, and his playcalling has lacked the creativity we saw the last two years.
Did or did not Hoke/Borges recruit these inexperienced/untalented lineman?? The o-lineman that's supposed to be the holy grail NfL talent can't quit running his mouth to actually take time to protect his QB.
Blah blah blah
But this is the last season I'm willing to say "next year." If we're not in Indianapolis next December, my torch and pitchfork are comin iut
Nothing will change next year. The offense has a chance to be worse - the OL could be worse - there will not be a single upperclassmen on the OL. Gallon leaves, Fitz leaves. You return Chesson and Funchess as WR with a bevy of untested guys behind them. Green- who has shown little this year - is your presumed RB starter. That is the team that is going to go up against OSU and win to get to the Big 10 title game? lol.
While I don't see it getting better, I am willing to wait and see with this staff. 2011 bought them some credibility with me. I owe them next year before I break out the torch and pitchfork
have both OSU and MSU on the road next year.
Which is even more frustrating.
MSU is mediocre.
There is no way in hell they may even have the best defense in the country. They've played lousy teams so far. Besides ND (who also are mediocre) who have they played? IU? And they gave up 28 points to IU. Nearly 350 yards of offense.
And that MSU is "this much further along than us" is sad.
We have not won a meaningful away game in quite a while now. This has to be of concern to the current staff. I am not ready to scrap everything and start over but the there has to be paradigm shift with the offensive play calling. Borges is taking a lot the heat after this one and by extension Hoke...this game didn't have to go this way but it did, we can't change it, let's move on...
I didn't believe that St. had a defense that could stop us...they made me a believer out of me today. Get healthy team....the season is not over.
I don't feel good about the fact that this will be in E. Lansing again next year too....but Devin will stew in this for a year....
Yes, the season is over. What difference does it make if we play in the pizza bowl or cirtus bowl. Are chances will be better to win the pizza bowl. We will get blown out by an SEC team in the citrus bowl
So, we go 8-4 or 7-5. We get blown out by MSU on the road and probably by OSU at home. We have close wins or loses against IA, NW and NE.
We have become a middling B1G team but I guess this is good enough for DB!
God I hate the whining on this board.
bashing people who are upset after getting thumped by a rival are so insightful. I would rather have a bunch of those instead.
reall? You sound like a bunch ninth graders that just got homework over homecoming weekend.
I'll take that all day, every day over a bunch of negative nancies, constantly whining, and bashing the thing they supposedly love at every possible opportunity.
No its not good enough for DB. He fired a coach that fielded a middling team. Maybe middling is too effusive of praise.
He wants a great team. You guys clearly disagree about id this coach can do it, but don't say dumb stuff for no reason.
other than DL coaching and pat on the back bullshit.
And a coach that can recruit to the level michigan should be able to recruit to. If that doesn't sound like much ... Than who?
A lot more than you arm chair head coaches.
He also brings wins. We need those. We especially needed the ones he has given us after the previous regime.
Game plan and you come up with that crap? Let's play to our weakness and to their strength (our run vs their run def). No adjustments and no one is buying play action in 2nd half with -6 yds rushing. Borges is awful and so is our o line.
College football in the "8-4" 90's: Buy a program, go to the game, read the Free Press. Maybe get some insight watching Brandstatter interview Moehler or Lloyd on Sunday morning. You may read a little article on recruiting in the high school section in the Saturday paper. You rooted for your team, but the analysis stopped by Tuesday at the latest and life went on. The most you knew about these kids was their hometown, major, and number. You supported them because they played for Michigan.
College football now: We follow year round recruiting, post player and future player Twitter feeds, analyze every single play to chart/grade/dissect, and looking for the "underlying message" in the pressers. Each players star ranking from high school determines our willingness to accept failure. If Peppers comes in and gets beat routinely - he's a failure. If Hoke doesn't wear a headset - he doesn't know how to coach. Everything becomes black and white because we've convinced ourselves that we know best. Why shouldn't we? We've studied, charted, dissected, and most importantly devoted our time and effort cheering for this team. Why can't the coaches make the changes we can all see from our computer screens? Fire them! Why can't you make a block as a guard? We don't care if you were at prom 5 months ago! How can Michigan State beat us soundly? We had a week to prepare!
I believe our obsession with Michigan football prevents many of us from simply enjoying a college football game and the increase in information has turned some of us on a witch hunt whenever our expectations are not met.
College football every year has one or two undefeated teams. Everyone else loses. Michigan is not the best team in the Big Ten. Michigan was outperformed on the field today. Al Borges is not responsible for keeping Bullough out of the backfield. When Kalis misses the blitzing outside linebacker, it is not Borges' fault. Michigan has struggled due to scheme, execution, youth, and a myriad of other issues. These are simple facts. Anyone who thought we'd be 11-0 going into the Ohio game, please raise your hand. If you believe that firing Borges is the solution, or firing Hoke, or cleaning house - are you patient enough to wait 3-5 more years for the next staff? Probably not. We're you of the same mind after the fourth straight 8-4 season of 1996? No staff can succeed without the support of the fan base. I would love to see a rallying post for once rather than a firing squad.
Where was the fan base 3 years ago?
Your right, Michigan football to me is not enjoyable to watch. At. All.
This is the 3rd time this year that I've left the room and walked out to the garage and tuned the game in on the radio and "busy" worked on some project.
On the plus side; Unlike our offense I accomplished something today in that I finished building a pair of "doll boxes" that my wifes dance studio will use in their upcoming production of "The Nutcracker".
to save my sanity. This has not been an enjoyable season as a whole - one good win and a lot of frustration.
But I thought the team would play better and the young offensive players would improve thought the season. I see no improvement and this is quite concerning. Now I will have to say we will probably go 8-4 again next season. The defense will be better but there has been no improvement in the interior line and we lose bot our NFL caliber tackles. I guess next year will be the reset for the OL and hopefully they will improve but there is now guarantee. I just see our coaches not improving this team. It is very disappointing and we will wait to 2016 to make a change at HC, then it will be time to rebuild for four more seasons.
then and now. In the 90's tickets were affordable. There were no "seat license donations" it didn't cost $50 to park in the golf course or at pioneer. There wasn't a marketing blitz and "branding". Certainly, if you're expected to pay for the game day experience and support an athletic program that spends in excess of $100 million a year, you expect a decent product. If Brandon or the powers-that-be would come out and say "yes, our program isn't worth it, and they would reduce ticket prices and earn the loyalty of the fan base, then yes, you would see a rallying cry. OSU outspends us, but they are content. They can go on probation and get a coaching upgrade. . Yes you're right, we need to rally. But you can't expect people to not be frustrated after what we've experienced especially over the last 6 or 7 years since Bo died.
Brandon hired Hoke. They should both be fired. I would be a better coach than Hoke
Playing x box 360 doesn't make you a good coach.
Does hoke play xbox?
No. He played real football.
Bra on is the worst. Love bra off though!
Why? Did the coaches lock onto a covered Gallon, torpedoing a drive? Did the coaches drop wide-open, well designed PA seam routes, or was that Gallon and Funchess? Did the coaches not tackle late in the game?
Come on man, just because your stuff sounds authoritative doesn't mean it's not bullshit. The coaches deserve blame. A lot of it. But look at the tape. We played like shit, even when we had opportunities.
defense for the drives to end and start the halves. Once State got Michigan down 2 scores, they pinned their ears back further and crushed the offense.
Unless Borges is responsible for Funk I am tired of seeing him blamed for this game. Who the hell can run an offense behind that line? And I think a ton of that problem is due to the center who should be communicating at the line.
I'm not one to usually bitch, but something's got to change. Funk needs to be fired and in my opinion Borges needs to be as well. How this group gives up negative rush yards is inexcusable. I know MSUs defense is good but that performance is down right uncalled for. Very frustrated but will continue to support the kids.
I think the main thing that bothers EVERYONE on this board is the lack of progress seen on the field every saturday. Even lesser teams get better as the season goes along. There is no way that our entire team (off/def) is this inept.
I want Funk gone, and I would like Borges addressed in the offseason.
Borges? Why not the head coach?
The head coach recruits well, Borges only recruits the QB position ... nothing else.
Lay off the weed
to fire the head coach at this point, even after this season (and yes I know they did so with RR after year 3). Recruiting means a lot and he's still accomplished some good things. Hoke gets at least another 3 years before he gets considered to be in the "hot-seat"
Perfection. But when u run play action when we have negative yds rushing that's on Borges and you know it. We are not a power team, and Borges is play calling like we have our 1997 O line. He knows we can't run block but continues to call power runs. No screen plays, hardly enough quick slants. Put Gardner in shotgun and let him throw. Better than -40 yds rushing.
I rmember he sad you kant ignor power game cus. u just kant. u hav 2 spriknlw it in it wurks sriusly.
U just Kant, but kan u Heidegger?
The negative rushing yards come from the sacks. Sacks come on passing plays, not power runs.
Gardner was in the shotgun a lot. Didn't help.
You are wrong. This game proves that your offensive ideas are wrong. You wanted this game plan. Shotgun, deep passes, short quick passes. We all did. It sucked. Stop pretending you have any answers for a bad offensive line.
the equation is token PA fakes that cause your QB to hold the ball longer included. Yes, there were some short passes, but those were far outweighed by the number of long developing plays. I liked the idea of hitting MSU deep early, the issue was that it became apparent that the pass protection wouldn't hold up for those type of plays.
Al didn't call a terrible game, the problem was against this defense they needed his absolute best playcalling.
I agree actually. With A Gap blitzes and the QB's back turned its a recipe for doom, IMO. I think it goes back to the fact that when you cannot block ANYTHING, what is the OC to do?
I agree. Some of those were dumb. I mentioned earlier, though, that some of them were certainly called for timing purposes. Some routes and combos take a really long time to develop, longer than 5- or 7-steps. Unfortunately, almost all of them failed.
I am not, nor have I ever, defended everything any coach has done. But on the whole, this was not only a pretty good game plan, it was the one mgoblog wanted. Want to argue about a few PA passes, fine.
But the question remains: what kind of offense is going to be effective with that line, particularly against that D? No one has an answer. Part of the reason is because our second half game plan was heavy on quick shotgun over the middle stuff that is theoretically PERFECT against this D. It didn't work for us. I've asked all year, what do we do behind this line? No one has a good answer. Not me, not you, not Brian, and unfortunately, not Borges.
Come from passing plays. But adjusting for sacks and the 20yd snap by Glasgow I get 21 rushing attempts for 21 yds. sounds eerily similar to a game earlier this season...
Having said that I agree that the game plan was fairly sound this game. The first drive was very encouraging for me. However as everyone agrees this o-line is atrocious so it seems like the remaining games will be all about seeing some competence up front rather than gameplan. I continue to be in the camp of definitely firing Funk and reserving judgement on Borges until after the season. Funk hasnt produced any NFL lineman the last time I checked. He's had a few (3 IIRC) drafted butnone made it to an active roster.
Can our coaches make sure our players don't say anything dumb next year within the week before the game? I know Fitz wasn't meaning any harm, but we still look even worse after a blowout loss to them.
you live and die with seniors, well hoke does. You got knocked out, time to try another HB, Fitz did nothing and is mediocre, the other guys looked good but are sitting and watching. Blame the oline, sure but when you can't run and play action they blitz your turnover happy qb. Play the damn freshmen, he wanted to start, you burned his shirt. As someone from Richmond VA I regret telling Derrick he made a good choice, I figured they would play him over fitz but the coaches are letting seniority rule.
Unfortunately Green is an even worse blocker than Fitz, so that has some to do with the lack of playing time. But I agree, he should be getting more carries than he does. Fitz just isn't that good.
Fitz isn't the problem. He isn't a great RB but I think you are asking a lot of a true freshman to step in and perform any better. As someone mentioned in the LiveBlog, Adrian Peterson would have trouble doing anything with this Offensive Line and some of the schemes Borges puts these guys in.
good running backs find ways. Adrian Peterson would not have this many horribly statistical games in college with this line, hell I think Mike Cox could've done better with this oline. fitz did come off a broken leg, partially they don't give him breaks and he's just not that good.
rest of season prediction. The coaches are bad. Really, really bad. Seems generic, but a generic game plan and development of players deserves the same response. Borges must, must absolutely under every conceivable notion, be relieved of his duties. We need an actual QB coach and a separate OC. Plain and simple. We need to rescue Morris and Speight from this frightening string of bad coaching, game planning, play calling and overall development. Funk = theres the door! Good recruiter but couldn't coach an o-line to save his life. The stats and performance on the field speak for themselves. Absolutely embarrassed. We are a fake 6-2 with more talent than the team that just kicked our asses in E. Lansing. Wow! Just wow! We are being laughed at now for statistical performance and vs. our hated in-state rivalry nonetheless. Hoke = mid level manager trying to be the CEO of a major corporation. Way, way, way, over his head. I think he deserves one more year with Mattison, but this offseason better see change form some of the position coaches. If not, Hoke's loyalty will cause the end of his reign. Ugggghhhh!
"We are a fake 6-2 with more talent than the team that just kicked our asses in E. Lansing."
What makes you assume that Michigan has more talent than MSU? I think this is something that needs to go away. We're NOT more talented than every team we play. In fact, I would contend that were far LESS talented than many teams that we play, thanks to the crappy recruiting beginng in '09 and '10. People can say RR is gone, but the effects of his poor recruiting and player managment are THE issue effecting this team, especially on the OL.
Lewan, Schofield, Cam Gordon, Thomas Gordon, QWash, Fitz, Gallon, Gibbons I believe are the only ones left from the 09 class.
What's troubling is that they're all 5th year seniors (Roh, Denard, Vinny Smith, Big Will) all graduated in 4 years, yet, are only 1 shy from matching the amount of players left from the 2010 class (9).
If you going strictly by recruiting rankings I don't see you could say there is a mismatch in talent. Not to mention if you look at the offensive side of the ball, there is nobody on MSU as talented as Gardner, Gallon or Funchess.
MSU just seems to be a better coached team at the moment.
The issue is not the star ranking, the issue (as the poster above aptly pointed out) is the number of upperclassmen. A 5* freshmen OLineman is nowhere near as effective as 5th year Sr. OL who was a 3* coming out of HS. Pretty much everything you need to know can be summed up in the fact that Michigan's roster is 58% UNDERCLASSMEN. And again, as poster above pointed out, the upperclassmen on Michigan's roster are few and far between.
I agree that Gardner, Gallon, and Funchess are likely the most talented players on the field. But, if you cannot block and keep your QB off his back, what does it matter. IMO, everything Michigan is suffering from is caused by the piss poor OL recruiting under RR. Imagine if RR had the same OL hauls as Hoke in '09 and '10 -- even HALF the hauls. If he had, Michigan might be starting 5 upperclassmen on the OL.
Yet it was still a below average unit. People keep on acting as though Michigan is the only team with youth at certain spots. That is college football, most teams aren't going to have experience at every position. It doesn't entirely excuse what we have seen from the o-line, just as it didn't entirely excuse the awfulness of defense under RR.
The real crux of the issue is there has been absolutely no progress on the o-line as the season has gone along. That is the concerning aspect, which is why I have no idea why anybody would have any confidence that they will make a gigantic leap next year, which will be required to offset the loss of Lewan and Schofield.
Yes there were upperclassmen on the OL, but they were OLinemen that hadn't played much up to that point. Here's how OL development goes in an ideal situation. Stud recruits come in, they redshirt. Unless there are holes, injuries, or they are complete college ready studs, they shouldn't see the field (even in blow out time) until they're RS Soph. year. That's 3 years in the program. The OL development pipeline broke down, and the process of developing the players suffered. Players that never would have played much were starting, and players are starting before their ready. What you want is competition so that the cream rises to the top, not what Michigan has had. We'll have it soon.
I know what the ideal situation for player growth is. The reality though, is that most teams around the country don't have that happen at every position in a given year. MSU has both an inexperienced QB and RB, for example. Also you kind of negated your own point, when those ideal RS sophomores still wouldn't have any game experience when they initially step in.
Also you're wrong about the o-line last year, Mealer was the only one without a decent amount of experience.
You are so, so far off base. I challenge you to come up with any team that has been competitve with three freshman on the offesive line in a power conference. You realize, I hope, this is the reason we almost lost to Uconn as well.
We're discussing this on another thread. UCLA's the only example; they're in a similar situation to Michigan's (the prior staff didn't recruit any linemen) and they're about as competitive. In UCLA's case that's seen as a positive, maybe even a miracle. At Michigan we want to fire everybody.
those performances against Akron and UCONN are soley the product of youth that is their prerogative. That is not even considering 27 yards on 27 carries, or this game today. There are other problems with this o-line besides simply expierence and anybody who believes this o-line will make a large leap next season despite losing it's two best linemen is much more of an optimist than most.
I'm not really an optimist. I have been screaming "The sky is falling on our offensive line!" since spring ball. But I guarantee the line will be better next year. It still might not be good, but it will be better. And I don't say this just because it can't get worse. You thought that last year, and I said we would be worse. I say this because no one on our line will have never taken an in-game snap, barring perhaps one tackle. Assuming Magnuson, Bosch, Glasgow, Kalis, Braden, we will have 4 guys who have started at least a half-seasons worth of games. This season, we have 2 that have ever started a single game, and both are tackles.
MSU has had the same coaching staff since 2007. Continuity is essential in CFB. Michigan, since 2007 has had 3 coaching staffs, 3 different schemes, and set a historical low. Why is that so hard to understand?
Inserting an RS Soph., is not an issue if your OL is anchored by upperclassmen. Michigan's is NOT. But, if you do insert an RS Soph., it's because he's a stud and has earned his spot of older more experienced players. Michigan's OL has a lot of "least worse" on it, and has for several years.
Yes, and that line was bad. Seniors and all. Pretty bad line. Still muuuuuuuuuuuuch better than this one. This team would have stood a chance today with last year's line.
THIS IS THE WORST LINE IN THE LONG AND ILLUSTRIOUS HISTORY OF MICHIGAN FOOTBALL.
On the other side, where would we be if we didn't have Robinson, Gardner and gallon. They were rr recruits also. It kills me how fans are quick to blame rr for mediocre players but give him no credit for the play makers who he recruited and didn't abandon ship like Lloyd's guys.
RR gave us some horrible classes. He recruited ONE offensive lineman in the entire 2010 class, that being Christian Pace. He never saw the field at Michigan.
The guy, RR, was a complete f'n jackass at team management. From recruiting to game time. The freshman will be much better next year, and we won't see the same failures on the o-line. I am sad that it takes this long to recover, but sadly, it is true.
I give him 100% credit for those players. Further, the roster issues we're discussing now are the same ones I used to defend keeping RR (although I am glad we didn't) back then. I think what Carr left RR was crap, and number deficient. Similarly, many of same things can be said about what RR left Hoke. At some point, the program MUST get the pipeline back up and running or else EVERY coach is going struggle.
Yes, this is exactly correct. Chalie Weiss couldn't have saved our offense today. Not even in his own mind!
it didn't really seem that way to me (unless you mean potential talent and not current skill-level) but let's line it up and see:
Michigan's got a big edge at LT and I'd prefer our WRs. QB too. But on the interior of the OL and through most of the defense these comparisons are often between very young guys on the M side and 4th and 5th and even 6th year players for State who are maybe a bit less talented (or not, like Calhoun and Bullough and Rush and the CBs) but it's more than made up for by the extra years of experience.
MSU's got a superior roster, if you ask me. They kicked our asses in recruiting from '09 to '11, did a better job of keeping players in the program, and it's showing on the depth chart.
That's why they were favored. That's why they won.
I started coming here more after the ESPN den closed down because I used to post over there occasionally. This game was that embarrassing. Like everyone, I'm pissed at the game, and I feel like venting is a somewhat constructive way to get around it, so pardon the long post, especially for a first one.
I understand many people defending coaches by pointing out offensive line youth and that they're getting destroyed repeatedly as the reason the team struggles. While that is true, other teams do better with younger and less highly rated lineman. Lewan and Schofield are All Conference or better. Bosch and Kalis were top 100 level recruits. None of that is new; Purdue had 66 yards rushing against MSU, though. Our offensive line is more talented than Purdue's. Illinois had at least 25. Our offensive line is better than theirs. Even ignoring the bad snap we were -28 yards. How can that all be on the players? If they are making poor decisions or not executing, then Funk is failing them. Really bad teams do not look this bad, and if they do they fire someone. By my count, we had 71 yards lost on sacks and bad snaps, which resulted in about 23 yards on 19 actual run attempts. That's 27 for 27 ish; yeah the players have made mistakes, but it's a recurring theme which to me points to poor blocking and preparation.
To people pointing out that Michigan went spread heavy like many mgobloggers want. Also true; but Michigan rarely did the things that spread teams with bad offensive lines do to protect the players and limit mistakes. Borges is very smart, and I know what he wants to do should work in theory more than they do, I put most of the failures on the above. But at some point you have to throw your game plan out and go with what has a chance to work - that game plan btw, that he had an extra week to work on. MSU likes to blitz up the middle. They destroyed us with it 2 years ago and last year; they've messed up teams with it all year, and they crushed Gardner with A gap blitzes today. The offense seemed totally unprepared for it, and when they kind of were it called for the RBs to make a block that they failed miserably at. Fitz has ben around for a while; he should know how to pick up a blitz every now and then, see coaching. When Michigan did go with quick passes, even though it was too frequently the same damn pop pass play to Funchess (4 attempts?) they almost gave up on it after the drop, because I don't know. "Well crap he dropped that 6 yard completion. Can't run quick passes anymore." was the logic I guess. He even did a bubble screen, for 8 yards! Never even looked at it again. We tried one screen, a play that is designed to work against blitzes, and never tried again. I think when a play doesn't work repeatedly you should maybe go away from it, not when the first try doesn't work. Either way, when MSU is blitzing heavy, repeated long play-action calls that you know your O Line can't block isn't really the way to go. Granted, Borges isn't awful, I think just stubborn. There were many plays where Gardner missed open guys and threw to someone covered. That 3rd down PBU early on was a great example, I'm not sure of the play call, Z snag maybe, but Gallon basically ran an out and Jackson in the slot just did a hitch. The safety undercut Gallon and broke it up, Jackson was wiiiide open. Even Gallon was open if DG leads him. Good call, bad execution. Other plays like that abounded, there were a few where Funch or Chesson were very open in the middle but Gardner had already pulled it or had locked on a covered Gallon.
There are many plays where it looks like Gardner doesn't really make his passing reads. He got hit a lot and didn't have time, but when he did, he often seemed to have his mind made up pre-snap. That isn't exactly new; Gallon being very good and Funchess making catches like he did early today mitigate it, but it's no surprise that he likes to throw to Gallon even when he's far from open. That's usually something for a QB coach to work on. Pretty sure Borges is our QB coach.. I know popular opinion here is otherwise, but this would have been a good game for Michigan to actually run power. They didn't even load the box a lot, going true I form power had potential for 3-4 yards a pop. That's better than 8 yard sacks repeatedly. Spread torched Indiana, but Indiana doesn't play defense. I'm no expert, but I feel like if your players can't do what you want to do, while you have to stay aggressive sometimes you still need put them in positions to succeed - or in this case not screw up as much. If you're going to spread it out, I think a quicker passing game, moving pockets that generally worked, and more decisive running plays keep your risk lower. Slow read options and play actions give their blitzing LBs more opportunities to get into your backfield. If the primary issue lies with the line blocking, then you have to question why these highly rated recruits and all american tackles can't do that and have hardly improved this year, let alone 3 years for the players that've been around.
Anyway, the game was a depressing tirefire and I need more to drink.
Too long for yes our offense sucked and defense was good to ok. I'm sure the post was therapeutic.
Getting ready to watch a real football game in FSU v Miami...
How long has it been since jimbo fisher took over for bowden, and they are just now back to the top of the heap?
Is the time table the same for this michigan program? Are we being unreasonable with these coaches? How much longer?
Are right, he has had some mediocre years in there.
Jimbo won 10, 9, and 12 games his first three years.
Thats really not that different than hokes records right now...
Jimbo Fisher has been on the FSU staff since 2007 as OC/QB coach. FSU was a juggernaut for many of Bowden's seasons, they slipped a bit, but to think Fisher took over anything resembling the cluster fuck that Michigan was when RR passed the torch to Hoke is laughable.
When hoke won the sugar bowl with RR players, he didnt have anything to work with? There were bigger problems than just coaching staff at FSU, their recruiting was down as well.
Look at the '11 roster. Look who the upperclassmen were, and remember the way they carried the team. Michigan had the Rimington Award winner anchoring the center of the line. We had Mike Martin, RVB, Huege (sp), Hemmingway, Koger, et. al. The '11 season was charmed, and Michigan got very lucky in many games, and benefitted from a lot of home games. I think Hoke showed what he can do with upperclassmen in the '11 season. There just aren't that many last year nor this year. There will be more every year going forward now.
I guess. Once the 2010 class is officially in the rearview window is when we can really start evaluating the team. That class really boned us for having experienced depth.
I guess you could be right, but maybe he also showed what he could do with players that someone else had coached up?
Look, Michigan has to "break the cycle." The downward cycle started in 2005 with the complete cluster fuck of a "class that never was." The had talent, but handed over an empty cupboard to RR -- another cluster fuck. RR didn't break the cycle, and although he gave us Denard, Gallon, Gardner, and a few others, he also didn't restock the cupboard -- especially on the OL. Where as the bad class in 2005 hurt RR in '08, '09, and '10, so too weak classes from those years are hurting Michigan today. Hoke MUST be given time to break this cycle of bad classes, and bare(ish) cupboard being handed to the next coach.
It's going to take time, but fortunately Hoke has booked 2 great classes, a couple more and the cycle will be broken. I know, I know...hard to be patient, but the cycle MUST be broken.
Problem is you can pull that talent all you want...if you do not develop the recruits it doesnt mean shit. Not a single player has gotten significantly better on this team...no one. Funchess still cannot block, interior OL is BAD, tackles are same as last year, frank clark is a nobody, countess is meh, gardner and fitz have both regressed (partially due to the line).
Absolutely no progress. No smart top high school recruit would want that for themselves.
Nobody? C'mon. Stop being so emotional and use your head. There is improvement all over the field. Sometimes improvement takes some time to show up in games.
Name me three contributers, that have game in and game out shown that they have improved an adequate level since last year, in all the games...not just in the crap games.
Gallon, Schofield, Funchess, Clark, Black, Beyer, Ojemudia, Washington, Henry, Morgan, Ross, Taylor, Countess, Gordon, Wilson. I'm sure I'm missing a few, too.
I'd also argue that every true freshman is better than he was in high school.
Lewan, as an early first rounder, has plateaued.
Gardner has probably regressed, but I think its more of a case of him not being ready for an expanded playbook. The offense was pretty vanilla until OSU/SC.
Gallon - was just as a good at the start of last year, only difference has been Gardner being the starter has given him more oppurtunities.
Schofield - decent last year, decent this year. Don't see a difference.
Funchess - possibly, but I think the move to playing the outside has simply given him more playmaking oppurtunities.
Clark - don't agree at all, no consistency still. Makes one or two good plays a game, and is otherwise non-existent.
Black - not sure what your seeing here, has been consistently average throughout his career.
Beyer- not sure what your seeing here, has made a couple of plays against lesser competition, but that is it.
Ojemuda - ?. Is he even get consistent reps the last handful of games? I haven't heard his name mentioned.
Washington - was honestly a better player last year if you ask me.
Henry - possibly, though hard to tell since he has only been getting playing time the last couple of weeks.
Ross - not really, actually has been getting less reps the last couple of weeks due to poor play presumably.
Taylor, Countess, Gordon, Morgan - think have all played about the same as last year. Countess has some picks, but seems to be getting beat a little more often this year.
Wilson - Haven't really noticed him doing much one or another.
I think several of those names you listed may be reaches with the exception of Funchess or Henry.
You are right. To hell with actually watching guys play.
Black has gone from average to our best defensive lineman.
Playing the same amount of snaps is not the same as playing better during those snaps.
How can we believe there is improvement where there is no evidence of it on the field? I can't think of a single position group other than maybe WR that has gotten better from the first game until now. I mean your telling people to use their heads, and turning around and saying for sure there has been improvement based on blind faith that it is occurring in practice. Improvement in practice means jack if it doesn't translate to the field.
Check Brian's UFRs. Schofield has gotten better, as he struggled in his first year at tackle at times last season. Funchess has developed into a pretty good WR after being just a promising TE.
Defensive improvements are everywhere. Raymon Taylor is a stud. Jarrod Wilson has gone from liability to good. Beyer has been good. Clark has been much better. Black has been a revelation.
There are improvements everywhere, and more to the point, there have been no obvious regressions, perhaps Gardner.
him outside. He didn't suddenly become a better player, the only difference is his strengths are now being utilized more.
I agree with you. I'm glad he took the initiative to move himself to receiver.
Funk and Borges should feel some heat on their asses, if all of the improvement ison the defensive side of the ball
i generally agree with you. what I can't get past when people are arguing about coaching is how can we be undefeated at home and have no quality wins on the road? How is that not coaching?
Winning on the road is hard, and every team brings it for Michigan. Inability to win on the road is indicative of youth and inexperience, IMO.
There are a lot of young teams that win on the road against quality opponents every year...I dont completely agree witht hat sentiment. A lot of it has to do with coaching/prep too...
Which teams are those?
Incidentally, I saw Hoke wearing a headset at times today, so it turns out that that is not, in fact, the solution to our football team's woes.
We also ran a bubble screen and spread it out...
Well there's your problem: MGoBlog whined so much about bubble screens and headsets that Hoke / Borges finally gave in. Look where that got us.
I saw one screen. They attempted another screen and Gardner had no one to throw it to if I remember right. The one that did work, however, got like 8 or 9 yards.
And they really didn't spread it out either. I don't see the hestitation to go 3 or 4 wide most downs. Plenty of pro style NFL offenses do it.
The other was tunnel screen they have used with Gallon frequently. I don't necassarily think bubble screens would have helped though, since MSU plays press coverage so much. Not like the opponents UM saw earlier in the year who were laying back and daring them to do it.
"snowflake" mean? Is it a term of deprecation? Should I feel deprecated just for posting here?
I don't get a lot of the inside terms here. I also don't understand the kittens thing either. I've asked this before but never get a straight answer.
One of the Mods over a year ago got tired of all the threads created after a game, where people, instead of joining a discussion in an on-going thread where the points they wanted to make had already been raised, decided that their point of view was unique and so insightful that it deserved its own thread. The Mod essentially said, despite what your mother or kindergarten teacher told you, you are not a special snowflake, so stop cluttering up the board with your inane threads.
Some of the coaching calls in this game were atrocious. Why Borges kept calling the zone read when it would lose like 5 yards every time is beyond me.
However, Gardner simply had no time to throw the ball. Narduzzi found the holes to blitz through constantly, and whenever the line held up their end of the bargain for a moment, Fitz would get blown up trying to block.
If I had to blame a coach for this game, it's Funk. He hasn't gotten these guys ready to play it seems for two years now.
However, I mostly blame the tire fires that are the 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes.
Well, the zone read didn't work, you are correct. But we ALL know we can't run power. So what do we do? Not run at all? We barely did.
I beg of someone, Nyone, to come up with a good offensive identity for a team with a line that is this bad! Its impossible. Now tweak that identity in any way you can to make that offense, with this line, beat a defense like MSUs. Come on guys.
I get where you're coming from. But any coach who calls power play action on 2nd and 15 late in the game is a fucking idiot. Bullough was never going to bite on the play action.
The second half was a lost cause because Borges didn't call a spade a spade. Spread the D out and go 4-5 wide. It was the only way to keep the aggressive D honest.
beginning of the game. But I count Gallon, Funchess, then Jackson, Chesson. Then who? Dileo hurt. There is no one else, is there?
I remember seeing that play and thinking what the heck were they doing there. Why would the defense bite on a play action call on 2nd and long. All it did was delay the speed at which Gardiner could get rid of the ball. If I recall he got sacked before he could even turn around and locate a receiver. A real head scratcher there! Borges must really think he is the smartest guy in the room.
Sure, I understand. However, what would be your first choice for play after the interception? Borges chose the zone read. Once that failed for the tenth time of the game that drive was already done.
We also have moved the ball through the air on them.
The offense was continously in 2nd/3rd and long situations.
Yet he won 11 games his first year with basically the same players. This team has not grown under hoke, in fact, they have regressed.
This absolutely is not the same team. In 2011 we had guys like Mike Martin, RVB on the DL, and guys like Molk on the OL. Odds are we wont have a capable center like Molk again until Kugler is ready.
Glasgow's a "capable" linemen. Not "capable like Molk", but he's capable, in fact he's surprisingly good for a walkon. If he were the only problem, we'd be ok. The same goes for everyone else on the line.
it's having three guys side by side with no experience that's the problem.
Not sure you're right about Glasgow.
You're last sentence is the most accurate statement on the board today.
Just wait until 2015 everyone.
So Sad, but so True. 2015, ouch
to get a decent road win?
Not sure. Everyone keeps saying to wait until then.
Enjoy this season and the next. Its a lot better than 2008-2010. There are some good things to cheer about. There will be some bad things to boo about. I'll bet there will be some boo-worthy things in 2015, too. I know we booed at times in 1997.
We're fans, guys. We cheer and boo. This will always be the case. Just be grateful that there are more reasons to cheer than boo right now, which is a lot nicer of a situation than the previous regime. Did we forget about that already?
I am deflated, but trying to deal with reality tonight. Hats off to MSU, they beat us in every phase of the game and showed that as of now they have better team, coaches and athletes. I have been critical of Dantonio, but he is the real deal and, while I have been critical of his demeanor he has delivered.
MSU defense is really good and owned us. Can't blame Borges today, they just stopped us on every play that mattered, no matter the play call. Gardner did not have a chance, he hung in well in my opinion. Their front seven just manhandled us- even Lewan and Schofield. That's not coaching, nothing was working when they decided to bring pressure. MSU defense was just too good and disciplined for any of our lineman to block on key plays. MSU was just pinning their ears back and was too strong, quick and mixed rushes up that our O line was dazed and confused. I don't think many college o line fronts could have handled them today. Not gonna get down on our young guys, it was just varsity against JV, they will grow up. Their were some chances earlier on to change the tone of the game. The implosion after the interception really put the nail in the coffin. I thought the failed drive due to the botched snap was the turning point. Couldn't understand why Fitz was left in as opposed to a fullback to help pass block since running was out of the question. Evidently , none of our tailbacks can block better than Fitz, which is not good. Our Defense played well enough considering they were put in bad position all day and were on the field constantly after the first quarter. Need to get ready for Nebraska. MSU has the best chance of beating OSU in the Champ game. Hope they do. This was clearly the best team we have played so far, and, I still believe we are still a good team despite today's whooping. I will be optimistic, win the next three and surprise OSU.
Yes...coaching. No time out call just before their TD pass at the end of the first half. They went hurry up. Don't tell me what happened on the plat either. We needed to call a time out and our coaches did not
And saying "good job" or "come on guys"...
What else does he do during an actual game?
I wonder if Al Borges ever watches other games and compares them to hours. I hope watches other offenses and sees what they do that is successful. Then watch our offense and see how horrible it is. And figure out a better way to do things.
He really needs to look at the plays where the o line blocks. .. And then call those plays.
First, it is sort of interesting that Dantonio said this week in his radio interview spots called "inside the huddle" that offensive linemen ideally should not be playing at all until they are at least redshirt sophomores. Reason: the playbook is larger for them than other players on offense, including quarterback. They have to know protections based on defensive alignments pre-snap and be able to adjust mentally in a precise way as the defense moves around. One false move and everything is blown up. Especially against pressure fronts.
Second, I knew many State fans who wanted Narduzzi out the door back in 2009. State's defense couldn't get out of it's own way that season. His rise to genius status was far from smooth within that fan base.
We are ticked off and don't want to deal with another year of State fan belittling Michigan football, but it's the price of admission to having a consistent program with a pipeline of steady talent again.
Continuity. Patience in letting the recruits grow and develop into experienced upper classmen. We saw it on display today from the opponent.
If Hoke and the staff ultimately prove to deficient, the pipeline will be up and running. Bring in a better staff for the coronation.
I think we must have had some kind of Vulcan Mind Meld thing going on.
I read your earlier posts and have been building off your themes. It's more big picture viewpoint, but the Michigan we all want was forged through a big picture approach.
Point of fact, State sucked in 2009 (year 3 of that coaching staff).
Most of the folks on the board are not old enough to remember the last time Michigan had to rebuild through establishing a consistent talent pipeline and program at the same time. That is because it has never really happened. Bo even acknowledged Elliot left him good veteran football players with more on the way. Rich was in the process of attempting it (probably for the first time in program history) but had the rug pulled prematurely. Maybe for the best, maybe not.
The goal is long-term sustainability. If we can avoid a meltdown as a fan base and brush off the verbal crud we'll get at work with State fan lurking around every cubicle, we're going to end up pleased most likely.
He offered nothing new, nothing different, nothing special. At one point I really wondered if he was sleeping up in the press box or maybe he left to get a sandwich and got lost on the way back because I didn't see anything new until 10 minutes to go in the fourth quarter. That was Gardher's first 2 step drop and throw. I came to this university a long time ago and this was the most pathetic coaching performance ever, bar none. Time for an ultimatum...
We ran bubble screens, we went out of the gun, we threw the worst Waldo, we ran hurry up - in short all the things that this blog has blasted Al for not doing. None of it worked because the guards and center are turrible. If the middle of your line can't even slow them down nothing will work. Ever.
If you want to blast Funk fine. That Dude should be gone. You want to hold Al accountable for Funk not doing his job, OK. But play calling had nothing to do with today. It was all about three positions getting beat on every damn play.
The other wr screen was not a bubble screen. Also I didn't see hury up except for on the last drive, when it became a nessacity. I don't think Al called a terrible game, but I think it is a bit disgenous to suggest they ran some of those things more than once or twice or that he couldn't have done any better.
First, my post was to the user who claimed this was all on Borgess. So you are kind of using my post to create a strawman, but, who cares, I'll bite.
I am not going to re-live the play by play with you. I just don't have the heart. However, my recollection is that Al ran more of those plays than you give them credit for. Most of the time the play was blown up before it developped.
I do think that calling one or two or ten more screens of any variety would not have helped. Those plays are really constraints to punish a defense for playing their corners off and guarding against the deeper routes. For the most part, State didn't really play off. They were in press a lot so a bubble wasn't open. So, if the corners are up, why not run past them and hurt them down the field? Because we couldn't. With one or two exceptions, Devin never had the time to wait for Gallon or Funchess or Chesson to get down field. He was already burried with Kalis standing there in a clean uniform after blocking air.
Devin is not accurate enough or quick enough at reading defenses to dink and dunk. When we tired, he was under pressure before Funchess could get five yards down field.
It is really popular on this board to just chalk it up to Al or Fitz. But we have much deeper problems. Borgess can't play guard or center, and Green isn't going to run through three or four unblocked dudes. The cold, hard fact is that this team is fatally flawed by a very inexperienced interior line whose poor play has forced changes which have deprived it of any chance to "gell." This isn't getting fixed by a different RB or better play calling or Hoke wearing a headset. It will take a year or two. The problem is that November 2013 is right now and Uncle Urban is licking his chops. In my opinion, it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
with your statement of multiple bubble screens since that wasn't the case. I actually agree they would not have worked given MSU's press coverage. The only real problem I had with Borges in this game was all the pointless PA faking they did, since MSU never had to respect the run.
Sorry, my bad.
I agree about the PA FWIW. I commented on one of the threads this week that they should forget about that stuff. Fitz tends to sell the fake too long when he needs to pick up a blitz. We miss Vinny Smith on 3rd down.
You're wrong. Watch the game. As a coach you understand what you have and what they have and you make adjustments. It's called a game plan. And you have contingencies. That didn't happen. Gardner was frustrated not because the game plan wasn't working but because the game planner wasn't thinking. Are you really telling me you don't understand this? Because I can only explain it to you...I can't understand it for you.
There is no way you can game plan around having 60 percent of your line who can't block. We were in the gun, trying to throw short passes from max protect and our QB still had under two seconds to throw.
Look, if you want to pretend that this team is awsome and that we win that game if Al calls more bubble screens or whatever, cool with me. But you are lying to yourself. This team has problems that a game plan can't fix.
As far as the snark in your post, whatever dude. You're like, so internet cool.
I hurt your feelings. There's a 2 step drop and a 5 step drop. Many of the sacks were the result of coverage not necessarily o-line issues so shorten the routes. I said nothing about bubble screens. the bottomline in my mind is that he had a poor game plan just like he did against U Conn, Akron, ohio, Nebraska...you think it's the players and I think it's the coaches. Furthermore, David Brandon needs to think less about fly-overs and blue bracelets and more about the 'product'
I think its both players and coaches. I just think on the particular point of play calling, not only did Borges have a decent plan (what plan is great against such a great D?), but that its the plan mgoblog wanted.
And, he did make adjustments. We came out with all sorts of short stuff in the second half to exploit their blitzing. They even worked, in that guys were in position to make plays. They didn't make them.
And, the overarching issue of the entire season: what plays don't require the line to block? I'd love to have them. I just don't know what they are. This line is dreadful. It is fine to blame the coaches for that. Wanna fire Borges on account of that, go ahead. Just don't give the bullshit "play calling" excuse.
All I can do is sit here and pray that games like these don't convince Hand to sign with Bama or that Peppers should reconsider his commitment.
Let's put it this way: if I was an offensive recruit, I don't know why in the hell I'd sign with Michigan right now, judging by what I've seen. I hate to sound so pessimistic, but this program is in its third year and we have zero offensive identity.
Relax. I am pretty sure that these guys don't make the biggest decision in their life based on one game. And neither Peppers or Hand play offense.
If Hoke were to fire Borges at the end of the season, what names could be possibilities outside in house names?
Anyone from Oregon's offensive staff.
Another aspect of the coaching I have begun to notice is a lack of playing to the officiating. I feel like our linemen play very clean, but should be holding a little more testing the waters. The same could be said if the defensive backs. The refs were not calling much today, as often seems the case lately and that benefited MSUs style of play. We played safe and got blown up.
Just listen to Hoke's introductory press conferences...by his own standards he is a failure so far. He talks about being accountable. Well he needs to be accountable and make a damn staff change.
I recorded the game and wanted to see what went wrong before the half. What was telling for me was the way that Mattison calls his blitzes. MSU had the ball 3rd and 6 on the Michigan 24 just before the half. They are in a shotgun formation (clearly pass), with 5 blockers and a blocking back. Michigan sends 6 defenders and all 6 are picked initially. Cook is able to get rid of the ball quickly because his primary receiver is wide open over the middle. His blockers give him just enough time to get rid of the ball.
The reason he was able to complete the ball near the 1st down was because the defensive coverage was soft. The Michigan defenders were 3-4 yards on the other side of the 1st down marker. The defensive backs started out 5+ yards off the line of scrimmage and immediately started to backpedal. The soft coverage was the problem.
MSU under the same circumstances will get up on the line of scrimmage in press coverage when they blitz. They immediately engage with the receivers and disrupt the route. By using tight coverage they force the QB to look for an alternate in the progression because the primary WR is covered. By the time the QB looks off the primary target they are being sacked. This happened to DG all day.
Good analysis. Maybe our coaches don't feel our DBs are good enough to press. But at this point, they need to try it or face getting picked apart by QBs with too much time.
Then you must blitz in my opinion and if you blitz you must press because you know they will be trying to get rid if the ball quickly...why we play so soft on coverage on blitzes or otherwise is beyond me...seems pretty simple. If our dbs can't cover playing soft , then press and blitz so they don't have to cover as long.
It seems like when you have good athletes, pressure defense works at the college level. You run risks but is that risk worse than the alternatives of allowing the opponent to be comfortable?
With the OL issues, does anyone else think that in addition to OL coaching, strength coaching may also be an issue?
It's entirely reasonable to think that the OC and OL coaches aren't doing a good job, but when you've got 300+ lb guys who are literally unable to generate any push whatsoever at the LOS even against mediocre teams, it's curious how the S&C staff seems to be immune from any criticism.
Well, I've liked the S&C staff since I saw the tremendous gains in musculature from 2010 to 2011. I also fundamentally disagreed with Barwis on his contention that bench press was unnecessary because, " the only time you're doing a bench press motion on the field is if you are on your back pushing someone off you." It seems to ignore lineman entirely, who essentially bench press the other guy 60 times a game.
That said, everyone is open to criticism. It should be founded in reality, though. Bring a good argument and people will listen.
It's the damn academics at Michigan. If adacemics were so awesome then why haven't cloned us a Bo Schaban.
to make it 29-6 at the end says it all to me. The team gave up. Not a good sign. This beatdown by MSU is worse (by points) than any loss to MSU under RR (I believe that to be a true statement). I don't know about you but that tells a story unto itself.
14, 6, and 17. So yes, today's loss by 23 would be the most.
We beat ND, my boss is a ND alum, so for an entire year I have that!
I dont care what it takes, go get him. Man is a football brainiac. Do it.
Worst ever ypc game vs psu and now the worst ever rushing performance - both in the same season. Neat.
What a fucken embarassment!
Hoke better get his head out of his ass real quick & boot that clown. You could get any of our good HS programs coaches in here to do a better job than Borges.
Hoke ...put on a fucken headset & overide some damn calls in crucial plays ...WTF!
Hoke - be a little more like Brian Kelly & chew some players asses ... WTF!
I'm done watching this until OSU - then will DVR & FF thru it quickly to watch that beating they are going to give us.
We ARE going to be losing recruits to this pathetic play calling ....FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What do you think Dshawn Hand is thinking dter watching that shitshow vs his Alabama visit?
Why was Fitz left in there all game for pass blocking?!! We dont have a FB for that??
Gardner in shotgun - & quick slants to Gallon or Funchess all day is what we should have been doing.
Did we do any screen passes?