Rich Rod Offense at WVU Vs. Michigan

Submitted by ntl002 on

I just spent some time watching multiple videos of West Virginia's offense during the Rodriguez/White/Slaton years, and I couldn't help but notice many differences between what they ran 5 years ago, and what we run now. West Virginia ran a lot of triple option using a full back, followed by a pitch option to the Rb, as well as a slot triple option with a guy like Reynaud. They also seemed to have a more downhill read option, that appeared to develop much quicker than our stretch play. However, they did not run nearly as much QB iso as we do now.

Some additions to our offense have been the use of an H-Back, as well as that Belly play often used with Minor last year. 

Basically my question is what do you attribute these changes to. Obviously this is almost purely speculation, but I was extremely excited when Rich was hired to see some of these option plays incorporated in our offense. 

(Keep in mind I could not be more pleased with the current offensive production. However I'm sure Rich Rod knows the offense must keep adding new wrinkles, so I'm curious as to what could be next.)

TTUwolverine

October 5th, 2010 at 1:19 AM ^

I would imagine that our personnel have dictated the direction we took on offense, but that is speculation on my part.  When Rich Rod got here he had to essentially tear his whole offense down to the bare essentials and rebuild, and I imagine that as the type of players we have on offense evolves, so will the playbook. 

EGD

October 5th, 2010 at 1:21 AM ^

bu I would imagine that it's a combination of (i) the offense evolving to counter new defensive strategies and (ii) trying to make the best use of our specific personnel

ntl002

October 5th, 2010 at 1:24 AM ^

I definitely see the personnel argument, although coming into this year I thought our personnel seemed perfectly equipped to run those kind of plays. I'm surprised the QB iso play is still such a huge part of our offense, although we have had unbelievable success with that play thus far. It seems so simple to defend in theory, although nobody has proved that true thus far.

WanderingWolve

October 5th, 2010 at 6:06 AM ^

I think the reason the QB iso is so effective this year is because Denard is now able to throw out of it.  Last year he wasn't even looking to do that.  I think being a year older has helped being a more effective runner.

I was just wondering the other day how Denard's stats this year compare to Pat White's R-Fr. year and what types of plays we are running compared to WVU that year.  I know this isn't what you did but I would be really interested to see it if anyone has the time/ability to do so.

Rico616

October 5th, 2010 at 11:17 AM ^

Id have to say that without looking them up, Shoelace's stats so far blow Pat White's stats out the water his 2nd year.

Part of the reason Rodriguez left WVU for Michigan besides the obvious is that he felt he could do so much more with 4 and 5 star players than 2 and 3. If he can keep it up this season he'll be well on his way to getting the attention of the 4 and 5 stars. I think right now Mich is at the 3 and 4 level.

Scipio202

October 5th, 2010 at 11:30 AM ^

I posted a more detailed breakdown of RR's teams below, but Denard has already gotten in 5 games as good or better than what 2005 Pat White did for the whole season.

Denard has 1008 passing yards on 96 attempts (10.50 YPA) compared to Pat White's 828 yards on 114 attempts (7.26 YPA).

Denard has 905 rushing yards on 98 attempts (9.23 YPC) compared to Pat White's 952 yards on 131 attempts (7.27 YPC).

For total offense Denard has 1913 yards on 194 plays (9.86 YPP) compared to Pat White's 1780 yards on 245 plays (7.27 YPP).

IPFW_Wolverines

October 5th, 2010 at 1:26 AM ^

There is more flexibility at Michigan than he had at WVU. He had Pat White who was great running but somewhat suspect passing. So they used a run based triple option.  Last year with Tate and this year with D Rob they can run the more wide open version that puts the pass into it instead of the fullback.

I wouldn't mind seeing some of the fullback type triple option but I think it would be difficult to incorporate right now. Michigan run's so much from the shotgun that moving D Rob under center would kinda give the play away. Basically the only time he goes under center now is in short yardage and even that isn't all the time.

RagingBean

October 5th, 2010 at 1:30 AM ^

Chris from Smart Football mentioned in his piece on Doc Sat last week that RichRod has always liked running the outside zone more than anything else, and with Denard and the QB Isos he can run that with 10 other players potentially blocking for the most dynamic runner in college football. It must be his dream come true, and assuming Denard can hold up it has certainly proven to be devastatingly effective.

ntl002

October 5th, 2010 at 1:53 AM ^

When you say outside zone, exactly what play are you referring to? And just to clarify, the triple option was run out of the shotgun dual back formation, in which the fullback and QB run a read option, followed by the running back circling around the backside for a pitch option.

EGD

October 5th, 2010 at 2:08 AM ^

I also read that Dr. Saturday article and the author's point was, basically, that spread teams have come up with a number of ways to block the backside DE on outside runs but Denard gives Michigan the ability to run a QB sweep and just ignore the backside.  Since the ballcarrier has the option to cut the run into a seam rather than going outside the TE it would be difficult to distinguish this from a basic outside zone run.

hisurfernmi

October 5th, 2010 at 2:16 AM ^

I have to imagine part of it is that RR is keeping some plays/formations in his back pocket for keeping the offense fresh and unpredictable all season.  No need to pull out all the tricks when the offense is humming along and you have teams like Wisconsin and Ohio State that will have 10-11 games of film on them at that point.

davidhm

October 5th, 2010 at 2:31 AM ^

I agree.  I don't think we've seen the entire playbook yet.  While ND and IU were close games, I don't believe Rich Rod used everything in the book.  I expect to start seeing some new twists to the offensive plays starting this week and throughout the Big Ten play.

DustomaticGXC

October 5th, 2010 at 2:56 AM ^

In addition to "keeping plays in his pocket", I'd imagine he hasn't even implemented a good chunk of his playbook yet, considering he's only been with "his" athletes here for 2 years. Pat ran his offense for nearly 4 full seasons. There were things he was running as a senior that probably haven't even been shown to Denard and these kids yet.

And yeah, personnel has a huge impact on what plays you run. The playcalling last year and this year are largely different because of how much of a threat Denard is to run compared to Tate. Tate isn't exactly immobile, but there are plays that don't work with him that do work with Denard because nobody is afraid of his legs. At least not afraid he'll score from anywhere on the field with them.

MightAndMainWeCheer

October 5th, 2010 at 5:05 AM ^

I'm not sure that RR is going to run the option with Denard.  The QB Power run with the RB leading basically serves the same purpose as the option.

When the defense overloads the playside on our zone stretch plays, we switch the play at the line to go the other way. 

At WVA, this meant running an option play to the RB side.  Here at Michigan, we would rather have Denard keep the ball because he is our best ballcarrier.  Having Shaw/Smith block the DE or OLB serves the same purpose as optioning the DE/OLB, but this way we get to use Denard's speed.  If Tate needs to come in, I'm sure we would then start incorporating some sort of speed option play.

NateVolk

October 5th, 2010 at 8:31 AM ^

Yeah you guys are right. Rodriguez said in the preseason that the experience of the guys is just now making it possible to run what he wants to run in the base offense at the speed he wants to run it. That seems to say that there are so many wrinkles and nuances that are coming with everyone gaining more and more experience in the program.

Exciting.

jblaze

October 5th, 2010 at 8:55 AM ^

adapting his offense to the players that he has! People who don't do what the OP just did would think that RR just runs his super athletic QB, like any idiot could do. However, there really are plenty of nuances and changes that RR has had to make from Woody Dantzler, White, Threet, Tate, and Denard.

It's a credit to RR's offensive coaching skills.

CRex

October 5th, 2010 at 9:24 AM ^

hey also seemed to have a more downhill read option, that appeared to develop much quicker than our stretch play.

Well to address that point specifically. Florida tried to run that same kind of downhill play against us in the bowl game and got their world rocked. As it turns out, large Big 10 lineman (namely Alan Branch) typically have no problem mauling things that run right at them. Our advantage is speed more so than power, so it makes sense we'd focus less on downhill given the defenses we face.

The Big East had a lot of weak defenses and is full of crappy linebackers so you could just run right over them (the exception being the year that HB Blades and Pitt shut down the WVU offense). I'd imagine RR is evolving to pick things apart as to just overwhelming them.

Steve in PA

October 5th, 2010 at 10:57 AM ^

One thing that I like and RR has found success with is thinking of players in a non-conventional way.  At WVU, Slaton was recruited as a DB by most schools but RR gave him the opportunity to be a RB.  At Michigan, we're all familiar with the story of DRob.

Both seem to be working out quite nicely.  I'm sure there are more, but those are the only two I can think of right off hand.

Scipio202

October 5th, 2010 at 11:14 AM ^

I just registered to post this (after lurking for a while), so I'm adding it as a comment rather than starting a new thread/diary.  I apologize for some screwy formatting in the tables - I couldn't figure out how to remove it.

I wanted to look at the breakdown of Rich Rodriguez's previous offenses, and in particular the main QB's run-pass balance and the fraction of runs by the QB.  I'm only looking at RR in Div 1A (so Tulane OC, Clemson OC, WVU and Michigan), and I'm skipping the mess that was the 2008 offense.  Data comes from the year-end statbooks for each team.

Here is the overall production chart.  QB is the main QB (from what I could tell) - in 1999 Brandon Streeter got a lot of playing time (mostly passing), and in 2001 Rasheed Marshall got a decent amout of playing time.

Year Team QB Pass Plays Pass Yards Rush Plays Rush Yards Total Plays Total Offense QB Pass QB Pass Yardsards QB Rushess QB Rush Yards Total QB Offense
1997 Tulane Shaun King 366 2608 425 2012 791 4620 363 2577 124 511 3088
1998 Tulane Shaun King 375 3615 520 2483 895 6098 364 3495 156 633 4128
1999 Clemson Woody Dantzler 423 3019 497 1812 920 4831 201 1506 146 588 2094
2000 Clemson Woody Dantzler 296 2311 557 2600 853 4911 212 1691 172 947 2638
2001 West Virginia Brad Lewis 357 1811 475 1992 832 3803 237 1339 54 41 1380
2002 West Virginia Rasheed Marshall 279 1753 714 3687 993 5440 259 1616 173 666 2282
2003 West Virginia Rasheed Marshall 252 2034 600 2762 852 4796 215 1729 101 303 2032
2004 West Virginia Rasheed Marshall 259 1993 590 3034 849 5027 171 1426 130 684 2110
2005 West Virginia Pat White 193 1398 625 3269 818 4667 114 828 131 952 1780
2006 West Virginia Pat White 233 2059 590 3939 823 5998 179 1655 165 1219 2874
2007 West Virginia Pat White 265 2067 628 3864 893 5931 216 1724 197 1335 3059
2009 Michigan Tate Forcier 329 2380 494 2234 823 4614 281 2050 118 240 2290
2010 Michigan Denard Robinson 119 1203 228 1622 347 2825 96 1008 98 905 1913
2010 Proj Michigan Denard Robinson 285.6 2887.2 547.2 3892.8 832.8 6780 230.4 2419.2 235.2 2172 4591.2
                           

Denard has already had more passing yards and almost as many rushing yards as 2005-era Pat White.  If he averages just over 100 yards passing per game for the rest of the season he'll have more passing yards than any of RR's QBs other than Shaun King.  If he kept on his current pace (unlikely), he'd end up with almost as many yards as 1997-era Shaun King.  If he averages just over 60 yards rushing per game for the rest of the season he'll have more rushing yards than 2007 era Pat White.  For total offense he would need to average just over 160 yards per game to best Pat White's best season, and just over 315 to match Shaun King.  At this point it looks like Denard is the best all-around QB Rodriguez has had to date: almost as good a passer as King and as good/better a runner as Pat White.

Next I want to look at the breakdown of plays and yards between run and pass, and in particular the QB's share of production.

 

Year Team QB % Rush Playsays % Rush Yardsrds % Runs QBB % Rush Yards QBrds qB % QB Total Playsl Plays % QB Total Yardsl Off QB Rush  % of TotalTot % QB Rush Yards % of Total
1997 Tulane Shaun King 54% 44% 29% 25% 62% 67% 25% 17%
1998 Tulane Shaun King 58% 41% 30% 25% 58% 68% 30% 15%
1999 Clemson Woody Dantzler 54% 38% 29% 32% 38% 43% 42% 28%
2000 Clemson Woody Dantzler 65% 53% 31% 36% 45% 54% 45% 36%
2001 West Virginia Brad Lewis 57% 52% 11% 2% 35% 36% 19% 3%
2002 West Virginia Rasheed Marshall 72% 68% 24% 18% 44% 42% 40% 29%
2003 West Virginia Rasheed Marshall 70% 58% 17% 11% 37% 42% 32% 15%
2004 West Virginia Rasheed Marshall 69% 60% 22% 23% 35% 42% 43% 32%
2005 West Virginia Pat White 76% 70% 21% 29% 30% 38% 53% 53%
2006 West Virginia Pat White 72% 66% 28% 31% 42% 48% 48% 42%
2007 West Virginia Pat White 70% 65% 31% 35% 46% 52% 48% 44%
  Low 54% 38% 11% 2% 30% 36% 19% 3%  
  Median 69% 58% 28% 25% 42% 43% 42% 29%  
  High 76% 70% 31% 36% 62% 68% 53% 53%  
2009 Michigan Tate Forcier 60% 48% 24% 11% 48% 50% 30% 10%
2010 Michigan Denard Robinson 66% 57% 43% 56% 56% 68% 51% 47%
2010 Proj Michigan Denard Robinson 66% 57% 43% 56% 56% 68% 51% 47%
                       

The first two data columns are the percent of all plays and all yards that come from all runs.   The third and fourth are the percent of all runs and rush yards that come from the QB.  The fifth and sixth are the percent of all plays and all yards that come from the QB.  The seventh and eight are the percent of the QB's total plays and yards that come from his runs.

RR has historically varied a fair amount in how much of his offense comes from running the ball - this year we're about average for what he's done in the past, and less run-oriented that for example 2005 West Virginia.  However, our rush offense is by far the most QB-based of any previous offense, far outstripping the one-man show of 2000 Woody Dantzler, and 2007 Pat White.  If we look at total offense, this year's team is more QB-focused than any of the Clemson or WVU teams, but actually on par with the Tulane teams.  Looking at Denard's run-pass balance he's actually right around Pat White's typical split, though he is certainly more run-focused in his production than any of RR's other quarterbacks.

This is just a high-level overview.  I can't break down the kinds of running or passing plays RR is using from this data.  The offense certainly feels very different than the Pat White-era WVU teams in formation and play style, and the YouTube highlights of Woody Dantzler I've seen have the QB iso type feel that we're seeing a lot from this year's team.  I think the main message is that even within his system RR will adapt his style, both at a high level and at the formation/play level, to match his talent - which is what he should do.