October 23rd, 2010 at 3:58 PM ^
Gerg has that reputation. I have little doubt regarding Robinson's capability of doing his job, but thats me, I'm kinda patient with coaches.
Oh shit, was that sarcasm?
October 23rd, 2010 at 4:20 PM ^
October 23rd, 2010 at 4:42 PM ^
Everyone always talks about how good gergs defense was when he was with denver or texas, but the true test of a DC isn't how good your defense is when it is loaded, its how good you can make it when you don't have much to work with. there is no doubt in my mind that there are numerous other DCs around the nation who could do more with our defense than gerg has, i think his reputation has inflated his worth as a DC
October 23rd, 2010 at 4:46 PM ^
More likely, fans insatiable need for a scapegoat, deflates his worth.
October 23rd, 2010 at 4:01 PM ^
What the hell, it's a slow news day...
So Scott Schafer isn't such a bad DC. I'm okay with that. Check.
So our defensive suckitude was not due to Schafer... it is just as likely not due to Gerg, nor to RR. Check.
In the same game, the WVU defense continued to look good as well. That would be Jeff Casteel. Check.
RR's FIRST choice for DC was Jeff Casteel. Check.
So, everything is now figured out. With nothing resolved. I wish I had Jeff Casteel's phone number. But I don't.
October 23rd, 2010 at 4:53 PM ^
Did Casteel not come with RR?
October 23rd, 2010 at 5:22 PM ^
RR originally asked Casteel to come along, and Casteel agreed. The presumption was that Bill Stewart would be a one-game interim, and then WVU would get a new HC, and there'd be a whole new staff. Casteel would need a new job, no matter what.
But then Stewart got the permanent job. And he asked Casteel to stay. And, as I understand it, Casteel talked it over with his wife, who said that since the family was settled in Morgantown with kids in school there, she'd rather not move.
Anybody know any better, or different?
October 23rd, 2010 at 8:15 PM ^
settled in Morgantown with kids in school there, she'd rather not move.
Anybody know any better, or different?
Yeah, Ann Arbor is a hell of a lot better/different than Morgantown!
October 23rd, 2010 at 4:03 PM ^
Who has his defense stopped? Devine is a nice player, and Smith could be a really good quarterback, but it's his first year starting. This is not WV circa Pat White and Steve Slaton. They held South Florida's offense to 9 points. BJ Daniels is a nice player, but it's not exactly a juggernaut there.
The two best offenses they've played, Washington and Pitt (pretty good Os, but not stellar), shredded the D. I'd think they would have had similar problems against MSU and Iowa.
October 23rd, 2010 at 4:30 PM ^
Do you really think GERG would hold West Virginia to 14 points?
and zero in the second half.
October 23rd, 2010 at 4:46 PM ^
did you watch our UMASS game or ND game? Both schools offense walked over us. ND lost badly to NAVY for gods sake
October 23rd, 2010 at 5:59 PM ^
which is nobody.
October 23rd, 2010 at 4:41 PM ^
Maybe thats why Greg Brown suddenly wants to go play defense there
Oh, I did not just go there
Cereal. Underrated storyline of the day is this win. Some of the Orange's offensive numbers were so bad today, it would be hard to believe they could win this game. It was a fascinating defensive effort. Especially in light of last week's not ready for prime time performance at home against Pitt
A good Syracuse team is good for college football. Great result
October 23rd, 2010 at 4:52 PM ^
I just gotta say this and if you want to ding me for it so be it...in the past 30 years, Michigan's most prolific loses were during Lloyd Carr's tenure (Illinois 1999, Iowa 1998, Syracuse 1998, Oregon Dennis Dixon, Tennessee bowl game, SC Rose Bowl, AS and there's more out there). The defense issue in '08, '09 and '10 can be arguably blamed on the poor transition and recruiting at the end of Carr's tenure. I would argue that with time (experience and recruiting) our defense will improve exponentially. Furthermore, the 3-3-5 offers an incredible amount of flexibility and allows a team to adjust from a 2 tight end power running team to a speady spread team rather seamlessly.
"It's not that I drank alot, it's that I drank constantly"
October 23rd, 2010 at 7:59 PM ^
Points given up? Because it can't be how much we lost by, since Illinois 99 was a 6 point loss. And we beat Iowa in '98 (you must have meant 2002). And I bet if you look back, at least the first year we played USC, we held then to fewer points than just about anybody that season. And it was SC.
<br>
<br>I mean, we haven't had regularly dominant defenses for awhile, I'll grant you. But every horrid defensive measurement in Michigan history has come the last 3 years.
October 24th, 2010 at 2:05 PM ^
October 24th, 2010 at 2:47 PM ^
Right direction?
I think I can, I think I can...
I'm absolutely miffed that anyone can still think that Greg Robinson is anything even remotely close to competent.
October 23rd, 2010 at 5:05 PM ^
Could this result perhaps point to the fact that the Big East is the worst AQ conference in America and that any of their teams can crap the bed/play really well on a given saturday? Last week Syracuse gave up 45 to a very bad Pitt team, but then this week shut down a "meh" WVU offense - they scored 49 against UNLV, but haven't been an offensive juggernaut by any stretch. These are all data points, but until the end of the season it is going to difficult to figure out what to make of them. Spot analyzing on a week-by-week basis won't show much.
October 23rd, 2010 at 6:04 PM ^
we don't need to have a defensive juggernaut or anything, just a middle of the pack defense that gets some stops and turnovers and doesn't get gashed EVERY game. Is that too much to ask for????
October 23rd, 2010 at 6:44 PM ^
This fucking topic again.
October 23rd, 2010 at 6:54 PM ^
What are the chances Stewie gets fired this year? Wonder if Casteel would be interested in leaving WV if that happens...
October 23rd, 2010 at 7:19 PM ^
If he does get fired, I bet WVU will take a look at Casteel for head coach. If not, it's likely he'd be interested in Michigan.
October 23rd, 2010 at 7:12 PM ^
From four years of EPIC GERG FAIL...
To...
It's been a long time coming, and I look forward to the day when we can see this again....
October 23rd, 2010 at 9:32 PM ^
Oh look, you took a picture of some fat guys standing around and a couple pictures of good hits. Proves it. Bring Shaefer back. Obviously he was the one who coached Branch to hit like that. Did you forget that the horrid defense started in 07? Before the last 2 years, the 07 defense was one of the worst defenses we've had in the past 40 years.
Also, I don't get your point. So you are saying Shaefer is amazing, right? Because he beat WVU, right? Then his being a shitty d coordinator here is because.....? If we are looking at numbers, his 08 defense was worse than the 07 defense, so he can't be good, right?
October 25th, 2010 at 12:02 PM ^
Those pictures can't possibly illustrate the difference between SU under GERG to SU now. The Doug Hogue over Geno Smith picture reminded me of the Alan Branch picture, which is just awesome.
And yes, seeing 5-2, 2-1 in the Big East and a great defense, Scott Shafer is amazing.
October 26th, 2010 at 4:18 PM ^
Come on man, WVU isn't particularly good. I've seen bits and pieces of all of their games (and substantial portions of several) this year. They just aren't good. Their ranking wasn't at all justified by anything they'd actually done on the football field. Their reputation is more or less a hold over from their performance in the years that preceeded this year. If anything, WVU losing to Syracuse doesn't prove that Shafer is a great (or even good) coach, but it does tend to provide evidence to an entirely different point: Rich Rodriguez IS a good coach. WVU is in the third year of the post-Rich Rodriguez era and Bill Stewart has proven that he can do very little with the last of the talent that Rodriguez brought into WVU and hasn't been able to fill in behind the players who have graduated the last three years with players of the same caliber. The best players on each of Bill Stewart's team were recruited and coached by Rodriguez, and Stewart has never been able to get the same level of production out of those players.
October 23rd, 2010 at 8:51 PM ^
In 2008 Toledo ran the same play over and over with a WR getting 20 catches?
http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=282850130
In 2008 Michigan finished 84/119 in scoring defense?
http://web1.ncaa.org/football/exec/rankingSummary?org=418&year=2008&wee…
Now suddenly the man is a genius.
October 25th, 2010 at 7:42 AM ^
In the time we’ve gone from the Denver Broncos with Greg Robinson as Defensive Coordinator winning consecutive Super Bowls to the Broncos losing 59-14 to the Raiders – and from the Spice Girls to Lady Gaga, and from the Backstreet Boys to Justin Bieber – defenses coached or co-coached by Greg Robinson have enjoyed three "good" seasons.
The Robinson-led Broncos ranked 7th in total defense in the NFL in 1999. Robinson co-coached the Texas defense in 2004 to a national ranking of 23rd in total defense (the 2003 Texas defense had been ranked 25th). Then he became Head Coach at Syracuse in 2005, and while leading that school to the worst record in its history (1-10; 0-7 in Big East), his defensive unit was ranked 57th in the nation after being ranked 101st in 2004. That defense had players recruited by Paul Pasqualoni and his staff. When Robinson ran his schemes and had "his players," Syracuse’s national rankings in total defense were 107th in 2006, 111th in 2007 and 101st in 2008.
Syracuse, a school that saw football take a back seat to basketball and lacrosse, thanks to Greg Robinson’s mis-management of its football program from 2005 through 2008, hasn’t enjoyed this good a start since 2001, thanks in part to Scott Shafer’s work as Defensive Coordinator these past two seasons.
Many consider Greg Robinson to be a "good guy". It’s easy to root for him to succeed. But having witnessed too many of Syracuse’s football games during the "Greg Robinson Error", I’m afraid that waiting for Greg Robinson’s defense to succeed at Michigan – to the extent that Rich Rodriguez’s offense finally appears to have succeeded at Michigan – may be like waiting for Godot . . . and, as we know, Vladimir has left the Big House. (Apologies for the literary reference.)
October 25th, 2010 at 12:10 PM ^
Great post.
Syracuse, a team that competed with programs like Michigan, Auburn, Ohio State, etc. under Paul Pasqualoni was turned into a laughingstock under Robinson. Think about the difference between 1998 when SU came into the Big House and throttled Michigan, to your current perception of the Syracuse program. Your current perception of Syracuse football is directly because of Greg Robinson.
People on this board have used the lack of talent as a scapegoat for the defensive problems we've had this season. Is it much poorer than Michigan's usual talent? Definitely. But how does that talent compare to UMass and Indiana? A great coach coaches up talent and yet we're seeing a I-AA team throttle the Michigan defense under Robinson, and yet the excuse is our talent level?
Michigan has only held one team (MSU) under 21 points this season, Syracuse has held four of six opponents under 21. Michigan has had its baby seals, Syracuse has had theirs. Has Michigan played a tougher schedule, definitely, but can you honestly say that Michigan would hold West Virginia's offense to 14 points (the same that LSU at home held WV to, and one of the most prolific offenses in the nation, and by the way, the same offense that we now run)? or South Florida to 9 (who just last week hung 38 on Cincinnati)?
I'm astrounded that anyone can still look at Greg Robinson's performance as DC and still support his continuance in that position. How much worse could he possibly have performed? Chatster is right in that many say he is a good guy, but being a good guy doesn't win football games.
Some more fun facts:
- After the firing of Greg Robinson (who was also DC in addition to HC), in 2009 the defense went from 101st to top-30 with one of the best rushing defenses in the nation, with basically the same players. Yes, Doug Marrone has many of Robinson's players, but that just reinforces the difference of results with the same players.
- In 19 games as Syracuse coach, Doug Marrone now has one fewer win than Greg Robinson had total in four seasons.
- Doug Marrone has more Biog East wins, more road wins, and more wins in a season than Greg Robinson in four years.
- Three of the four Syracuse seasons under Robinson rank as the worst three seasons defensively in Syracuse history.
- If Doug Marrone lost his next 20 games, he would still have a better winning percentage than Greg Robinson.
In closing, I'll let Chandler Jones, a Greb Robinson recruit, say it all on the difference between GERG and now:
“Oh my god, it’s Coach Marrone,” said Chandler Jones, the junior defensive end who had two sacks and six other tackles. “On the field, off the field, academically . . . he’s changed this whole team around. He’s taught us how to be a player and how to be a man, and that carried over today, as you saw.
“Coach Marrone does a good job of talking us up and up and up until we get to Saturday. By the time we left that hotel room this morning, every player on this team knew we were going to come out and win this game today.”
October 25th, 2010 at 8:13 PM ^
Think about the difference between 1998 when SU came into the Big House and throttled Michigan, to your current perception of the Syracuse program. Your current perception of Syracuse football is directly because of Greg Robinson.
That's not quite accurate. Pasqualoni himself allowed the program to decline after McNabb graduated. His last three teams went 4-8, 6-6 and 6-6. Now to be sure, GERG did worse than even that, but SU was falling apart before he ever arrived.
October 26th, 2010 at 9:51 AM ^
Are you kidding me?
Pasqualoni was fired for letting the program decline from a conference champion and national program to mediocrity.
What we then got was total and complete epic fail.
GERG won 10 games in FOUR YEARS. He took that 6-6 team and made them 1-10.
October 26th, 2010 at 9:59 AM ^
GERG took a team that was 3-9 under Shafer and turned it into 5-7.
October 26th, 2010 at 10:05 AM ^
And Doug Marrone and Scott Shafer took a team that won 10 games in four seasons under GERG and won 9 in their first 19 games. I find that a bit more impressive to hang your hat on.
October 26th, 2010 at 10:23 AM ^
Michigan's record improved because the offense improved dramatically and in spite of GERG's defense being worse than Shafer's. But you knew that.
October 26th, 2010 at 10:12 PM ^
I just believe this thread is overall a bit ridiculous, and felt the need to poke a little fun at the OP.
October 26th, 2010 at 10:30 AM ^
Granted, players change from season to season, and recruits don't pan out, and players leave, and star players suffer injuries, and Scott Shafer might not have been the right fit for this Michigan coaching staff, and maybe it's too soon to judge Greg Robinson's value to Michigan (despite beliefs that his distinct lack of success since 2000 speaks volumes about his worth as a Defensive Coordinator.)
However, consider this: In 2008, while burdened with one of the worst offensive units in Michigan's football history, Scott Shafer's Michigan defense was ranked 67th in the country. In 2009, bolstered by an improved offensive unit and one of the top defensive players in the country in Brandon Graham, Greg Robinson's Michigan defense was ranked 82nd in the country. Also, considering that among Michigan's wins in 2009 were a close call against Indiana. and those over FCS Delaware State and winless Eastern Michigan, was the 2009 season with only one win in conference that much better than the 2008 season in which Michigan had two Big Ten victories?
October 26th, 2010 at 2:23 PM ^
In no way, shape or form am I suggesting that GERG was a good head coach. It's just misleading to make it sound like he inherited a national power that could compete with the big boys, as you implied earlier.
October 26th, 2010 at 3:47 PM ^
October 26th, 2010 at 4:06 PM ^
Again, literally no one is arguing that he did a good job at Syracuse. There's just no point in making misleading statements like this:
Syracuse, a team that competed with programs like Michigan, Auburn, Ohio State, etc. under Paul Pasqualoni was turned into a laughingstock under Robinson.
The Syracuse program that GERG inherited could not have possibly competed with Michigan, Auburn or Ohio State. It's like saying that Bump Ellliott inherited a program that won a national title, because Bennie Oosterbaan won one 10 years before Elliott arrived.
BTW, GERG beat Notre Dame as well.
October 26th, 2010 at 4:26 PM ^
People on this board have used the lack of talent as a scapegoat for the defensive problems we've had this season. Is it much poorer than Michigan's usual talent? Definitely. But how does that talent compare to UMass and Indiana? A great coach coaches up talent and yet we're seeing a I-AA team throttle the Michigan defense under Robinson, and yet the excuse is our talent level?
Talent really isn't the issue. The issue is experience. UMass and Indiana both have far more experienced players starting and contributing than Michigan's defense does this year. Unless you have the highest level of talent to work with, experience (both actual game experience and continual coaching) is always going to be a key component to success, especially on defense. Rodriguez and co. have a track record of bringing in marginal players and making them solid contributors. That takes time (because of experience) to develop.
A serious question for you, though... what is the class breakdown on Syracuse's current defense two deep?
October 26th, 2010 at 10:02 PM ^
Here's the two-deep: http://suathletics.com/sports/2006/8/7/2007DepthChart.aspx?path=footbal…; It's a more experienced bunch, starting freshmen at LB and FS, and a number of underclassmen in the two-deep. I'll agree on your points, but the question is - does Syracuse have more talent on defense than Michigan?
For all of the Big East bashing, and Syracuse bashing, an honest question - do you believe that Syracuse has better players than Michigan on defense?
October 26th, 2010 at 11:11 PM ^
do you believe that Syracuse has better players than Michigan on defense?
Players with more natural talent? No. Players with more experience? Yes. Currently better players? Probably yes.
The list you just provided shows that Syracuse has 9 juniors and seniors starting on defense. And 13 in the two-deep. Michigan has 5 juniors and seniors starting on defense. And 9 in the two-deep.
Also, interestingly, 9 of Syracuse's starters on defense were recruited during hte Robinson era. Were these players playing last year? If yes, how did they do? If the answer is no or some variant of "not well", why, if after all, the difference in their performance is that Robinson is no longer their coach and Shafer is?
October 27th, 2010 at 10:16 AM ^
Our defense last year was great, a huge improvement from the year before (run defense I believe was 15th, overall defense improved from around 101st in the nation to around 30th), with nearly the same team - and beast Arthur Jones. It just shows the difference in coaching. It was the offense that didn't start clicking until late in the year.
October 27th, 2010 at 11:30 AM ^
Who recruited those players?
October 27th, 2010 at 12:05 PM ^
Those players in 2008 vs. 2009 were nearly all recruited by Greg Robinson - which offers a good apples-to-apples comparison.
October 26th, 2010 at 4:43 PM ^
Every post from you everywhere is:
- OMG Syracuse
- I HATE GERG MY PRECIOUS SYRACUSE
We get it, can you stop now? I'm sorry, but no one else really cares about Syracuse here.
October 26th, 2010 at 8:26 PM ^
October 26th, 2010 at 10:17 PM ^
I'm pretty sure the reason he posted about Riley is because he attended HS at Detroit Country Day. Not because he wanted to talk about Syracuse.
October 27th, 2010 at 9:17 AM ^
On November 26 in Atlantic City, New Jersey, John Beilein and Jim Boeheim renew their old Big East coaching rivalry when Michigan plays Syracuse in the Legends Classic.