PSA: Leave Mark Schissel Alone

Submitted by JamesBondHerpesMeds on September 6th, 2020 at 10:48 AM

I’m not sure what happened between the moments where he fired a much-maligned athletic director, brought in a solid interim + permanent AD, and ushered in a period of stable growth in the university and its athletic endeavors....and now.

but either way, this continuing harassment of him, the calls to resign, etc. because he’s flexing his chops as an MD and university administrator is making our university look silly. 
 

There are no winners in a battle against a pandemic - but erring on the side of caution will bring us closer to a return to normalcy than running roughshod over caution and care. Let the man do his job.

/end PSA

A_Maized

September 6th, 2020 at 2:12 PM ^

It is such a false dichotomy,  either playing football or keeping the students safe.  The football team was the most highly tested group on campus and they have the strongest motivation to protect themselves.  Any team they play will have also have been tested and you can’t catch Covid in a Covid free environment.  
The surprisingly high number of CoronaBros who falsely state that playing football will slow the return to normalcy can’t point to a single case of Covid caught due to playing football.  They resort to fear mongering and sensationalized tropes to shame anyone who doesn’t agree. It’s sad. 
While we are talking about cases, read the attached article which suggests that only 10% of positive tests are people who could transmit the virus.   As Tom Mars posted, cancelling football is prima facie  evidence that it was not safe to bring students back.  If it was safe to bring students back, it’s safe to play football.  

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html

ikestoys

September 6th, 2020 at 3:55 PM ^

Students aren't back in any normal way. Iowa, MSU, OSU, Rutgers and Maryland all have had major outbreaks.

Stupid ass attitudes like this is why 900 people are dying per day, and this return to pandemic will be part of an uptick in cases, followed by hospitalizations, followed by deaths... like the past two times.

also hearty lol at you using prima facie like you have any sort of legal background.

A_Maized

September 6th, 2020 at 5:03 PM ^

Thanks for your ? take on the situation.  Regardless of how you define normal, students are back.   Educate yourself, none of the college outbreaks has resulted in a single hospitalization. 
As for your hearty lol, you may want to work on your apparently limited reading comprehension.  I’m not an attorney, but I was pretty clear it was a statement made by one, they were not my words ?

Monger your fear, clutch your pearls and hide in your basement while the rest of us live life taking reasonable precautions.  

ikestoys

September 6th, 2020 at 5:49 PM ^

70% of UM classes are entirely online. The vast majority of the rest are a hybrid model that is mostly online. Students are being encouraged to stay home. The nonsense spouted by Clay Travis et al about hospitalizations is blatantly false. We know an IU player who ended up in the hospital. Furthermore, schools also don't reports hospitalizations of their students, hospitals don't keep track of it, and public health agencies don't report it. Finally, and I can't believe we have to explain this still, there's been 11k new points of infection to spread out and kill other people. That's how pandemics work. Spreading lies is why 900 people are still dying per day.

Calling me a coward and ?is a fun insult, but guess what I am? I'm an ER physician that worked in NYC during the peak. The hospital I worked at during the peak made the news and was probably the hardest hit hospital in the USA, and possibly the world.

I volunteered to work in the highest risk area. I took care of people on CPAP and HFNC, which at the time we had serious concerns if it was safe for any providers. I did that because it was my duty. I did that despite having my own health issues. I did that despite having a friend of my die just before I went. I did that while I had friends in the ICU struggling to breathe.

You know what's cowardly? Refusing to make sacrifices so that others in your community don't die. 

But hell dude, do whatever you want to do, god knows no one will be willing to stop you. At the end of the day, you, or someone you love, will see someone like me and they'll work to save their life regardless of your cowardice. Because that's what we do. That's my burden to bear. Your burden is apparently to not watch Michigan football for a few months. You're a god damn hero.

A_Maized

September 6th, 2020 at 6:32 PM ^

You are an ER Physician?  I’m an astronaut! Great to meet you ?

Let me explain a “mostly online” model to you...it means students are on campus.  Why do you keep dodging that indisputable fact?

Your typical post seems to be to tug on an emotional heartstring while being bereft of data.  With your inside medical knowledge, surely you can tell us how many student athletes have caught Covid playing a game? That’s the risk right?! There are 0,  none, not a single case 2 weeks in.  Students are on campus, that’s a fact.  Football student athletes are tested the general population of students that have been welcomed back with open arms.  Inferring that playing football, against other players who have been tested and do not have Covid can spread Covid, is a logical fallacy.  
Surely you can grasp and admit, that in a high contact sport, two Covid negative players are not going to spontaneously create a Covid case?  If so, take a seat. 

ikestoys

September 6th, 2020 at 6:38 PM ^

COVID tests are far from perfect, and shouldn't be prioritized for amateur athletes playing football. My post isn't emotional at all. It refutes your basic lies and makes fun of you for pretending that you're brave, which you notably have zero response for.

If you want to wager on me being an ER physican, LMK, otherwise stfu and know your place.

A_Maized

September 6th, 2020 at 8:15 PM ^

Which lies are you referring to oh great Dr?  Why are you not refuting anything with facts rather than your imaginary tale of being a Dr. 

Now your tune has changed and you seem to be agreeing that two Covid negative athletes can’t give it to each other regardless of how hard they hit.  You do finally state your opinion tho that the millions of new testing kits available and becoming available should not be directed at athletes.  At least that is an honest opinion, but it is still an opinion.  
 

Since you are a Dr, you know full well that the tests give far more false positives, not false negatives.  I’d love you hear your thoughts on the finding that only 10% of the positive tests sampled actually were positive to the point they could transit Covid to someone.  They are not perfect, but it’s highly skewed to diagnosing many more false positives, but as a  Dr, I’m sure you knew that.  

ikestoys

September 6th, 2020 at 8:37 PM ^

Lies so far include:

1) Students are back on campus in any way resembling normal

2) Covid free environment

3) No student hospitalizations

4) 10% of people who are positive who could transmit the virus

5) Me not being an ER physician

6) False positives being more common than false negatives. These tests are usually roughly 80% sensitive and 99%+ specific. I doubt you even know what those words mean tbh.

If you want to wager on me being a physician, you could be brave for once in your life coward.

A_Maized

September 6th, 2020 at 10:12 PM ^

Your reading comprehension is atrocious. You appear to struggle with the even the most simple of statements.   Between your logical fallacies and twisting of statements, it’s two entirely different conversations.  
Students are back on campus, period.  Their classes may be more of a hybrid model, but they are back and they are having their typical college parties.  This isn’t a debatable fact ?. When the entire team has tested negative for the virus, I’m going to call that Covid free, you can classify it however you want.  I’m still waiting for you to produce a case where two negative tested players, from the same team or playing a different school, have produced a positive case.   Since there the risk you fret so anxiously about, show me where it has happened even once.  Show me the student hospitalizations from UM or hell, any college in the state or conference....I’ll wait.  
With your pretend doctor skills, you must know more than the people who studied the viral loads of positive tests for the New York Times.
As for your keyboard warrior tough guy act, I just have to ?    There is no point in addressing it further, I have a feeling I know your type so by all means, be a tough guy in the one place in your life you can be, a message board. 
I’m out champ, you have nothing honest to add to the discussion.  Come out of your mom’s basement some day and go outside.  With the proper precautions you can actually live a normal life and the sunshine is good for you. ??

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html

MGoSoftball

September 6th, 2020 at 9:29 PM ^

You are correct that tests are not perfect.  However, these tests are accurate enough to catch a positive COVID19 case prior to that patient becoming contagious so said patient can isolate themselves.  Daily testing is the key.  Abbott Labs will be producing millions of tests per month so there is no ethical issue with priorities.

 

CMHCFB

September 7th, 2020 at 7:52 PM ^

Ike’s, far be it from me to jump in the middle of the pissing contest you two are having, but when I read your reply yesterday there were 2-3 less paragraphs in your now elongated post.  If you’re going to edit a post, note what material has been added/edited   

bluebyyou

September 6th, 2020 at 4:24 PM ^

I couldn't agree more.  If playing football was too dangerous for players who are tested regularly, and are largely in excellent physical health, then bringing back a student body not being tested routinely and without the discipline that athletes have is nonsensical.

As for Schlissel, unless I don't know how to search a database, Schlissel trained and practiced as a physician but no longer practices as he is not licensed in Michigan. From his bio, he hasn't practiced in a decade. He is an administrator.

I'm very unhappy with Schlissel for a couple of reasons.

First, I don't disagree with the decision that was made to postpone the season, a decision that in my opinion was likely based as much on legal considerations as it was for concern about players and general community spread of the virus. What bothers me is that I feel that as the president of the University, Schlissel needed to share and explain his decision with athletes being impacted.  he owed them that much.

Second, I simply cannot comprehend the decision to bring the student body back, particularly without campus wide testing.  It isn't fair to the students or to the Ann Arbor community and I can only see a money grab as the impetus behind the decision.

Third, letting Warren and the B1G swing in the wind while the presidents of the schools that voted against playing, without talking to the press and the student bodies and alums as to the reason why, is an example of weak leadership that borders on cowardice.  There will be second guessing regardless of what transpired.  Schlissel makes a lot of money as the president of Michigan and right now I personally don't think he is worth it.

 

MS3

September 6th, 2020 at 10:56 AM ^

I think the main issue with Schlissel right now is the perceived hypocrisy. If it’s unsafe for the football team to play this fall, then why did you allow thousands of students back on campus, when you know they clearly won’t follow any social distancing rules? The Michigan Daily has already reported examples of 50+ students partying without masks or adhering to COVID protocols. So it appears there are two separate sets of rules at play, the latter of which seems to be driven by the ability to charge tuition and room-and-board. 
 

I have no issue with not letting the football team play, because admittedly I’m unfamiliar with much of the research right now, but if that’s the case, then students shouldn’t be on campus if you’re claiming safety is your #1 priority.

dickdastardly

September 6th, 2020 at 11:23 AM ^

Bingo. I think if you gave University presidents the option to axe their athletic programs, an over whelming majority would do so.Many professors would join that movement too, imo. The only professor I ever had that vocally supported sports, especially the hockey program, was my Organic Chem professor Richard Lawton, who just happened to be the best professor/teacher I had while at Michigan. 

Oregon Wolverine

September 6th, 2020 at 2:29 PM ^

M Law’s Profs. Yale Kamisar and JJ White both expressed public love for M football.

Kamisar, the father of the Miranda rule, was head hunted by Duke Law years back w/money cannons of then incredible volume.   Reportedly his demand to M Admin was not more money but tickets on the 50.  

JJ was the UCC and commercial transactions guru, nationally known.  Had lunch w/him on a Friday before a game against Iowa and he shared he was hoping we’d drop at least 60 on the Hawks.  He made football cracks in class all season long, constantly insulting any Buckeyes in his class, or if none, Spartans, or if none, down the B10 line of schools.
 

4th phase

September 6th, 2020 at 11:39 AM ^

Yeah that’s why the “perceived hypocrisy” is a false perspective. The president’s first responsibility is to the university and the education of the 10s of thousands of students, not to the 100 football players. And the university can not actually stop parties. If a group of students signs a lease for a house in the city they can invite their friends over. That’s happening even with 70% of classes online only. The idea that Schlissel is just having a students on campus free for all is absurd, they took steps to curb the spread. Just like they are taking steps to curb the spread in the athletic department, it just turned out that step is to postpone football because you can’t have online football games.

TIMMMAAY

September 6th, 2020 at 12:01 PM ^

No, it isn't. 

Football, and all sports are a distant second to the actual purpose of the University of Michigan. Football is a demonstrably more dangerous activity to engage in during an actively raging pandemic. This has been covered hundreds, thousands of times here. You guys just continue to ignore reality, and beat your idiot drum. 

Not sure which recently banned account you are, probably either LVSB, or ijohnb. Just stop please. 

Stringer Bell

September 6th, 2020 at 1:28 PM ^

Football is more dangerous than general campus life?  I would strongly disagree with that.

This "football or education" argument is such a dumb one.  No one is saying we should play football and not have school.  But there are ways to have school without actually having the students back on campus spreading the virus all over the place.

TIMMMAAY

September 6th, 2020 at 2:37 PM ^

JFC, you people are impossible. Read the damn comment I was responding to, and apply some damn context to what I said instead of trying to misrepresent it. My comment about the purpose of the school isn't saying what you're implying, and you know it. When you have to resort to dishonest arguments, the whole conversation is fucking stupid. 

Stringer Bell

September 6th, 2020 at 4:48 PM ^

"Football, and all sports are a distant second to the actual purpose of the University of Michigan. Football is a demonstrably more dangerous activity to engage in during an actively raging pandemic."

There, I directly quoted you to show that you're the one being impossible.

champswest

September 6th, 2020 at 3:08 PM ^

This is no longer an “actively raging pandemic”, not in Michigan, not in the US. We peaked in April. Deaths and hospitalizations have been trending down for several weeks. If you are waiting for zero cases, you are going to have a long wait (especially with all the faulty testing).

BroadneckBlue21

September 6th, 2020 at 11:39 AM ^

Except the only thing people have openly cried about and protested is that football is not happening. 

As for parties—how much authority does he have off campus? What has he implemented as far as his authority? You can call him a hypocrite for young adults partying Off campus, but it doesn’t mean he is—that’s a poor interpretation of reality. How is that his fault when those students openly ignore the rules? At least with what he can control, he is controlling to keep folks safe. The college will lose millions of dollars, but he’s looking at a bigger picture—and he’s looking weeks and months ahead, whereas the loudest angry fans look out their window and pout about where cases are at now. There’s already an uptick in cases around the nation and Europe as we near flu season.

Bluesince89

September 6th, 2020 at 11:41 AM ^

I don't disagree with this take.  However, what I will say is that even if you go all virtual and and don't let kids live in the dorms, you're still going to have people who come back to town and live in their rental homes/apartments and party and just take their virtual classes from there.  If I was 20 years old, had a place I was paying rent on and couldn't get out of the lease, and was a short drive away from AA, I would definitely do that.  Michigan should be fully virtual - I agree with that.  I don't think that will even come close stopping the parties without the City of Ann Arbor and AAPD flexing some serious muscles.  

trueblueintexas

September 6th, 2020 at 11:51 AM ^

I would expect it’s not about safety of one vs. the other. It’s about exposure to risk.

Here’s an analogy using the NBA bubble idea.

 The NBA is in a single bubble. Anything taking place in this bubble is somewhat issolated to the outside world where the virus is. This is as safe a model as you can get.
Now, what if the NBA had multiple bubbles? And the NBA decided to have teams from one bubble play teams from another bubble. But let’s say one bubble has a bunch of guys who don’t like the bubble life and they keep sneaking out and partying. That bubble keeps playing against each other but at least the risk is contained to that bubble. Word gets out about the party bubble and the guys in the other bubble shake their heads and say no way are we playing any team from that bubble. 

Bringing it back to Michigan: Students being on campus is a very leaky infected bubble, but at least it is somewhat contained to Ann Arbor. The President felt this was an acceptible risk. What he doesn’t want is cross pollination with the Columbus bubble, the Twin Cities bubble, the Iowa City bubble, etc. Keeping the sports teams isolated to their own bubble still may not be great, but it at least prevents the Ann Arbor bubble spreading to the College Park bubble and the East Lansing bubble spreading to Ann Arbor, etc. 

A_Maized

September 6th, 2020 at 2:16 PM ^

The problem with your bubble analogy is that every player, coach and assistant from each team will be tested.  It will be a Covid free environment, eliminating the risk of the leaky bubble analogy.  You can’t catch Covid in a Covid free environment.   The field would be the safest spot on the campus on game day.  

trueblueintexas

September 6th, 2020 at 4:28 PM ^

The great numbers the football team had were primarily before the students were back on campus. Now they are and it will be difficult to keep the football players separated. 
The other thing to consider is the expense required to keep the football team safe. The PAC-12 is talking about testing every person before every practice. The Big-12 is testing three times a week, I think. At $5 a test that adds up pretty quick. Assume 250 people need testing each time.(players, coaches, analysts, trainers, equipment people, etc.) That’s $1250 per instance of testing. If they test 5 times a week, that’s $6,250 per week just on testing,

It would be difficult to say only football gets to play and no one else. Title IX would most likely mandate an equal number of female athletes would get to compete in fall sports. For easy math, double that weekly testing number. Should the school be paying @ $12,500 a week to keep up testing to play sports at a time when revenue will be down significantly due to a loss of ticket, concession, and merchandise sales?