Poole leaving due to ball screens?
Dylan over at UMHoops posted a fantastic piece this morning about the role of "ball screens" in Jordan Poole's decision to go pro. It sounds like he's been getting some advice from his inner circle that might not match the stats. Here's the link:
https://umhoops.com/2019/04/24/ball-screens-jordan-poole-michigans-offense-future/
(You should really subscribe for the quality content Dylan regularly posts.)
Here are a couple of quotes from the piece worth sharing - but go read the whole thing:
The unforgiving truth is that if Jordan Poole had played as well in January, February, and March as he did in November and December — even with a similar usage of ball screen possessions — then this conversation would be different.
He also discusses whether we need more iso players or not:
I’d lean in the other direction. The key to making the Simpson-Teske pick-and-roll as efficient as possible is surrounding it with weapons who don’t need the ball in their hands to be effective.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:02 AM ^
I DONT CARE! JUST LET HIM GO!
April 24th, 2019 at 11:04 AM ^
If he’s leaving because of ball screens, then he has no balls
April 24th, 2019 at 11:38 AM ^
Is "ball screens" a medical condition? Is there an ointment that would have helped?
asking for a friend...
In baseball, a ball screen is a protection against foul balls (and not in a hygienic way).
April 24th, 2019 at 11:05 AM ^
MOAR POOLE THREADS
April 24th, 2019 at 11:05 AM ^
Poole is leaving because he had no desire to be on the team anymore for like the past five months lol. It's over.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:54 AM ^
Is it that hard to believe Jordan is leaving due to mutual agreement with Beilein? I think Poole really enjoyed being on the team, but I also think he was tired of having to conform to Beilein's requirements. I think Beilein was tired of having a talented player that didn't want to conform to his requirements. Ultimately, this could be just as much about Beilein making a decision on what he thought was best for the team as it is Jordan wanting to move on.
I don't think negative comments need to be made about either person without knowing the nature of the conversations between Poole and Beilein.
I'm assuming that the fact that you fabricated the entire situation based on your feelings or beliefs doesn't have any impact on your opinion.
The facts are that Mr. Poole vacated the team to pursue the NBA after having middling success this year. Clearly his decision. But the fact that someone makes their own decisions doesn't mean that they aren't dumb. So spare me with platitudes about negative comments. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including yours that you completely invented about what you think went down.
This article suggests trueblue might know what he's talking about:
https://www.michigandaily.com/section/mens-basketball/jordan-poole-john-beilein-growth
So spare me with platitudes about negative comments.
Ok. You are a jerk.
"conform to Beilein's requirements"? Beilein's "requirements" are that guys do what's best for the team. People around here that claim his system is too rigid for his style are dead wrong. If you can be efficient and make smart decisions like Trey Burke or upper-class Levert, Beilein will run everything through you. Poole wasn't efficient and didn't make smart decisions when isolated and it wasn't good for the team so Beilein limited him from doing things that hurt the team. Simple as that. Literally every good coach in the country does the same thing.
It's no different than Austin Davis being like hey coach, I want to shoot threes. If he were good at them, he'd have the green light. Same as Poole in iso. No green light because not good in those situations.
Again, Beilein doesn't have rigid requirements other than "you can do what helps the team and if something helps the team a lot, you get to do it more".
The term conform to his requirements was not meant to imply a rigid system. But different coaches have different requirements. My hunch is what Poole wanted to do did not align with what Beilein wanted him to do regardless of offensive system.
And similar to Zach Gentry, he wants to "stick it to the Michigan fan twitter trolls"
April 24th, 2019 at 11:12 AM ^
There's an article in the Athletic where his dad said that Jordan made up his mind pretty early in the season that he was leaving. Their thought process is that Poole wouldn't improve much if at all next year in Beilein's system because they think he should be the primary ball-handler and playmaker.
Poole's dad then went on to say Zavier Simpson's offensive limitations hindered Poole's ability to showcase his abilities and that wouldn't change next year. So they felt it was best for him to move on so he could play more of his way and become the player he wants to be.
They didn't want to risk him having a similar season to this year which would, in their eyes, be a waste of a year he could have spent making money or having more freedom.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:17 AM ^
People who hold others responsible for their shortcomings usually don't go too far
April 24th, 2019 at 11:21 AM ^
At the same time, they're right about Simpson's offensive limitations........ Still though, with Poole many of his issues are internal. Regardless, this is definitely the time for him to go pro, because I agree he wasn't going to get any better(because of his own personality).
April 24th, 2019 at 11:24 AM ^
I agree. Poole and his family are not wrong about Simpson's limitations, but ultimately, it is best that he moves on. He clearly wasn't happy, and who knows what effect his unhappiness had on the locker room and team chemistry.
Honestly, Poole has some growing up to do if he wants to be successful. I don't see him being drafted, nor do I see him making a roster in the next year or so. How he deals with that and how he grows will determine his future bball career.
April 24th, 2019 at 12:56 PM ^
People who are able to make cold, hard financial decisions tend to make more money in life.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:21 AM ^
What a bitchy family, Poole (and his family) are really ruining his legacy here at Michigan. I’m sure casual fans will tell me I’m wrong but people who actually do some research and read between the lines will see his more accurate attitude.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:26 AM ^
The Simpson shots are on purpose by them. Go re watch some games it was quite clear Simpson took serious issue with what JP was doing on the floor.
April 24th, 2019 at 12:19 PM ^
Rightfully so. X was sick of the "my bad" moments from Poole. Those moments and Poole's immaturity put a damper on what could have been a really special season.
Hopefully he grows up and learns that or his NBA career is going to be short lived.
I don't know why you were neg on this statement but you are a 100% correct.
Thanks. I'm not concerned with the negs. Not everything can be positive. It was made known that X and JB were frustrated with and tired of Poole's mental mistakes.
We had one outlier not buying in/checking out for the NBA after we hit the 2019 calendar year and that really hurt the team. The shot and that will be Poole's legacy at UM.
April 25th, 2019 at 10:10 AM ^
Hi mental mistakes came at really bad times. In the State games, there were quite a few times where Michigan had a turnover and rather than reset if it wasn't there, he got sloppy with the ball and turned it right back over. These were at critical times that ended in some long scoring droughts. Simpson is very careful with the ball and learned to push when he can, but most importantly not turn the ball over.
JB has teams that consistently have a point guard with a high assist to turnover rate, so JB emphasizes this. Seeing Poole turn over those balls in key games were critical. I really enjoyed Poole when he had his swag last year and loved his "moxie" but this year I was expecting him to see him take his talent and swagger and turn that into a player like Stauskas. I think he has a similar skill set and could still turn into that, but he just wasn't there this year.
That season ended exactly where it was supposed to end. That wasn't entirely the fault of Poole.
Its ruined...
Thanks for the shot, best of luck, dont let the door...
You (northernmich) may quite literally be the worst poster on MGoBlog. All you do is rail on players you don't like and you take it so fucking personally and then make it personal - as if they did something to you or your family.
"What a bitchy family?" Bitch, you're the one whining about him on a message board! The hell are you talking about?
Poole had MANY shortcomings, I like many in this thread, am not heartbroken he's gone. I wish him the absolute best, I can see why he made his decision - one that is NOT my own, so who am I to judge (especially if I don't have all of the info)?
All we can do is speculate based off of what we've seen in terms of basketball - that's it. People make decisions for a variety of reasons, and you and I don't know all of his.
But to call his family bitchy. Fuck you. Period.
The worst kind of Michigan "fan." I hope Zach Gentry, Rashan Gary and Jordan Poole all have wonderful professional careers, and because I'm petty...I'll be sure to remind you of it any time you post on this board.
I'm done bitching, best of luck to Jordan, Charles and hopefully that's it.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:21 AM ^
I can believe that Jordan made up his mind early on in the season that he was leaving. I am not in the camp that is going to bash Jordan, but it does seem like he checked out halfway through the season. Just seemed like he was just trying to get through the season, but was not enjoying himself.
Troubling that Jordan or his dad would blame Simpson for any inability for Poole to showcase himself. I do agree that Simpson is limited offensively, and that ultimately, it somewhat holds back the team's offense, but Simpson wasn't forcing Poole to launch ill-advised shots, play terrible defense and disappear for large portions of the game.
Ultimately, Poole had a ton of potential, but his loss will not be hard to overcome because his production down the stretch was somewhat negligible.
X just added a line item to his To Do's:
- Finish career at Michigan with championship hardware
- Find Poole in G League/Euros and hold him to 10pts on 25 step-back shot equivalents
Close book, goes to bed
April 24th, 2019 at 11:27 AM ^
They seem to think that players like Steph Curry, Damien Lillard, and others of that mold are good because they play a "certain style" of basketball, but fail to see that those players are incredibly gifted allowing them to do things that other players cannot. What Poole was doing sometimes this year with hero-ball jack up threes was like an "imitation" of far better basketball players without the prodigious talent required to be those players.
This is it 100%. Put Curry or Lillard on any other team in the NBA and they'll still ball out. This is a case of parents who think their son is a lot better than he really is. Yes - if he was in a system that more tailored his style, he'd put up better numbers and better tape. But he wouldn't become a superstar. The best players find ways to create plays and shots for themselves and for others even when there's nothing there in the waning seconds of the shot clock. JP bricked last second stepback 3s or forced a turnover trying to make a pass while DW10, Burke, and Stauskas nailed the shots or made great passes to set up some great shots (and even then none of them have figured out how to do so consistently in the NBA). The very best players shine through it all. Ballers ball. Blaming others for your weaknesses is so weak.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:35 AM ^
He's not a very good ball handler though, if he had good handles then he would have been
April 24th, 2019 at 11:36 AM ^
Even if Poole is blaming others for his lack of development here, at least this is a reasonable argument as to what his "business decision" was. There is something to being in a system that fits your talents, but it seems like NBA players would shine through no matter what.
I think people take the Poole thing hard because he's a likable and talented player, who doesn't seem ready for the NBA. He's leaving feels like a rejection of Michigan.
The whole NBA drafting on potential thing really hurts college basketball. I wonder if they could apply some sort of metric against your being able to enter the draft early. You have to have X% scoring efficiency on a team with a .500+ record to leave after your Freshman year. X-1 after your sophomore year.
Guys deserve to get paid, but it is sad to see them throw away legacy if their odds are poor. Hope he finds a situation that showcases his talents.
"Poole's dad then went on to say Zavier Simpson's offensive limitations hindered Poole's ability to showcase his abilities and that wouldn't change next year."
Can you quote just this bit from the article to see exactly what was said? I saw tweets from Brian, Quinn, and Dylan on the article but didn't see one about this specifically.
April 25th, 2019 at 10:03 AM ^
Your post and what everyone else says about Pooles Dad makes him sound like LaVar Ball.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:13 AM ^
Can we please move on from this topic? Good lord. He's gone. Wish him well and move on, Beilein has. But this has been thoroughly plowed into the ground.
I've never seen a more ironic comment on this board, Maizen.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:16 AM ^
I agree with that second quote posted above. I think that the limited success of the Simpson-Teske pick and roll had less to do with their limitations and more to do with the players surrounding them not being able to reliably make outside shots. Matthews and Poole were just really inconsistent and outright poor for long stretches and defenses could really focus in on stopping Simpson. The reason that "switch everything" worked so well on Michigan this year was not because Simpson is not capable of driving and finishing, but because teams felt so comfortable helping off shooters because we could not make a damn thing. All those little quick twitch layups that Simpson had turned into an art-form disappeared because he would have needed to get them up through four arms crashing down on him.
I don't think you will see a lot more iso next year, I think Beilein said that as kind of as a half-ass attempt to plea to Iggy and Poole to return even though he did not like what the offense had become. Beilein did not seem to like the product on the floor this year, IMO, and became increasingly disengaged as the season went along. I honestly think you will see kind of a "revived" coach next year with some pieces that fit together better than the ones he had last year.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:28 AM ^
What makes you believe that Beilein became "increasingly disengaged" with the offense? This is something you are pulling out of your ass. He has never been against change and has always adapted to his team and to the times. He's not even close to the same coach as he was at WVU or when he first got to Michigan.
Beilein saying we would see a lot more iso next year was not an attempt at appealing to Iggy and Poole. It's his realization that defenses switching ball screens is now becoming the norm and that easily stops or limits ball-screens. Beilein realizes that we need more iso and other concepts to adapt to how defenses are playing.
If anything, this is Beilein showing he is just as engaged as he has always been.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:35 AM ^
We just disagree. I am not implying that Beilein "stopped trying" or was not coaching, but by the end of the season I saw very little ingenuity from him in trying to adapt to his personnel. There were also literally dozens of times this year where Beilein very literally just crossed his legs and sat back on the bench with his hands behind his head while the patently obvious bad thing that was about to occur on offense played out exactly how you would expect it to, badly. It seemed to me that Beilein became resigned to the fact that the team had a pretty low ceiling and was not as engaged with this team to the extent that he has been in the past.
April 24th, 2019 at 12:48 PM ^
Great point about Beilein, ijohn. I thought I saw the same thing as the season progressed and ended. There truly wasn't much to do at that point and so...crossed arms and legs and a hope and prayer the guys could make something happen.
Logged in to upvote and agree. I do not scream at inanimate objects ordinarily but found myself yelling at TV Beilein as I felt he just watched the offense struggle and downright flounder. The body language angered and confused me. I cannot say why, of course, but I hated seeing the optics of that.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:33 AM ^
Simpson's lack of shooting is just as much an issue as that of his teammates. Tough to beat good teams with a PG that can't shoot off the bounce and lays bricks with set shots too.
Also agree with this unfortunately. If we had a Derrick Walton as pG this year the offense would've looked much better...with a guy who can ride and shoot off the dribble. Not a punch at Zavier, he's our guy but he is limited and limits us as an offense.
While it's obvious Michigan would be better if Simpson had a better outside shot, he has led the team to the National Championship game and the Sweet 16 so it's not like the team is floundering because of it.
I disagree about your analysis of why "switch everything" wasn't working.
Michigan's outside shooting was a problem, but the reason switching was so effective was that the basic ball-screen action got switches on Teske and Simpson, and neither were capable of punishing such action. The issue was, in fact, very much that Simpson's ability to beat players one-on-one is limited. Remember Xavier Tillman rejecting shots on drives? I'm sure you do, because he did it a lot. That was a big man who Simpson tried to beat, because of a switch, that Simpson could not beat. Meanwhile, Cassius Winston would be guarding John Teske and Michigan lacked the refined entry-and-post game to exploit it.
Outside shooting certainly helps. But when it's Simpson and Teske on the floor with Poole, Iggy, and Livers (which happens a lot) all three of those guys demand attention (including Poole, whose spot-up 3s remained quite good even though his create-your-own shots were terrible) and neither Simpson nor Teske could consistently exploit it.
Good stuff. It is certainly an interesting discussion.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:19 AM ^
Ultimately it doesn't really matter. If Poole had played as well in 2019 as he did in 2018, he has a much stronger NBA case and we're all happy for him heading into the draft. But he didn't, and we're all hand-wringing about whether it was a good decision or not, and many fans are mad at the kid because his decision will have a negative impact on our basketball team next year.
All the conversation around why he left is empty talk and excuse-making to obscure the honest truth: JP wants to go pro, and doesn't want to stay another year in college and in the Beilein program.