Poole's dad says it's time to move on
So do we think he is just venting here, or is Poole looking toward the NBA or a transfer? I've heard a transfer is possible.
Shirley Poole's dad can't be serious. Props to WD for getting in that reply string lightning quick.
He is serious and don’t call him Shirley
Maybe Jordan has a sister named Shirley??
As Fred Jackson might say, WD is like Donald but smarter
A lot of great words of support from true Michigan fans on the link.
He'll be fine.
Not sure where this is coming from? Everyone in life needs to improve their "game". So nothing should be said and he doesn't grow as a player?.
He was replying to a guy who said his son needs to move on. He wasn’t saying something about improving, it was “don’t let the door hit you...” I don’t think that’s an unreasonable reaction.
Or we could tell the whole story. Some asshat named ian vedder said first that he wanted Poole to move on and he can't have him on the roster anymore (whatever the hell that means - who the hell is ian vedder?). Anthony Poole was replying to that dickbag and probably venting from a lot of grief given his son for the way he plays sometimes.
A couple of my buddies actually grew up with this kid in Fenton, MI. I asked each of them about him and they literally all described him in one term, "douche bag". Who would have ever guessed a twitter tough guy would also be a douche bag, right?
After his comments about Poole, I saw that he then got into an argument with Ant Wright on twitter and said he would beat Ant one-on-one at his local Genesis gym in Fenton for $10k. Come to find out, Vedder wanted home court advantage because he's a towel boy there.
These are the people of twitter.
I wish Ant would take him up on it and donate it to charity.
I am a member at Genesys (it is in Grand Blanc, FWIW). I will definitely keep my eyes open for him . . . an opportunity to see whether your mental image of an internet tuff guy is accurate is a rare opportunity indeed.
Shouldn't be hard to find, you'll see him mostly in the cafe, drinking a smoothie, hitting on anything that walks and maybe doing a few bicep curls.
Ian Vedder is the significantly less known and douchebag nephew of Eddie Vedder.
He went to Grand Blanc High School, as did I. I think we were the same class. He may be a decent rec center player, but he never played basketball in high school (although he did play other sports).
Twitter: the place where asshat trolls say stupid stuff and then other people somehow 1) waste their time reading troll comments not even directed at them and 2) allow themselves to get offended by stupid people saying stupid stuff (and then incredibly think it's representative of anything other than the opinions of a few trolls).
SMDH
The NBA loves potential...Jordan has lots. No reason to forgo a year in the league. I would not be surprised if there was an avalanche here...all the way to Livers. I do not think it will go this far but I will not be surprised if it does...plenty of reasons to give it a shot.
Have to disagree here man. If anyone on the roster is in a position to go, it's Iggy. He's truly the only one on the roster ready to play in the NBA and I still think his game could use another year of seasoning and preparation for the NBA. I really like Poole, but outside of his three point shooting, what else says NBA potential about him at this moment? He can't really create a shot for himself that's not a step back three, he mentally checks out of games, etc. Stauskas was a much better player at this point than Poole and he is struggling to get minutes for the CAVS! Livers has ZERO chance at being drafted this year, and I really like the kid, but that's the truth. I imagine Poole and Iggy, maybe Livers, test the waters and come back with great information to work on and up their game. With good seasons next year, we could for sure see all three of them go.
The fans can hope this is so but if you have ever worked with these college kids...their perspective is quite different from the fans sitting on the couch...and that is more a good thing than a bad one. Here the fans rip these kids for their lack of maturity-don't let the irony of such criticisms get lost on you. The joke is on all those negging what I am saying here. Y'all would do well to walk a mile in their shoes. I guarantee you Iggy, Poole and even Livers giving all kinds of options much consideration.
I'm a high school counselor, so I know a lot about teenage perspective and how different it is from my own. At times, it's my job to help my students see the bigger picture and not get wrapped up in whatever "is cool". Like, going to a specific college because that's where their friends are going, when another college might be a better fit. Staying home because they have a significant other who isn't going away to school, etc. You aren't being negged for saying these kids are going to consider their options, you are being negged for not providing any reasoning other than "potential" as to why that might be the case. I gave you specific reasons why I think Poole would be foolish to leave at this moment. Livers, other than his great defense and stellar shooting, got replaced in the starting lineup by Iggy, so why would Livers try and leave now? That just doesn't make sense. I'm also not one of these fans that thinks kids need to stay because I am a fan. I just know what I see, and what I see is two kids who still have a lot of work to do in order to play at the next level. Nobody wants to go undrafted and play in the G-League if they don't have to. Right now, this is where I think both Poole and Livers would end up if they left school now.
username checks out...classy, well thought-out reply.
I like the words 'bigger picture'... recently I have been looking for motivational words to tell my 15 year old, to keep his grades up. Much to my surprise, he made the Honor Roll last quarter but seems to have slipped this one, and I have been pulling out everything, in order to get him to see the importance of keeping the grades up, and I have indirectly talked about the 'bigger picture' but haven't done so directly, and now I thank you...
Please let me know if you figure out the answer to motivate your 15 year old cause I'm dealing with the exact same thing with my 14 year old. He's in all advanced/honors classes and been told he's "gifted" by so many people he has convinced himself he doesnt need to study anymore. So last quarter his GPA went under 4.0 for the first time ever (3.8) and we continue to see things slide as gaming, youtube videos and watching TV will have a FAR greater positive impact on his life than that stupid school thing we want him to do. I've told him "you're a smart guy so you can get very good grades doing absolutely no work whatsover but you cant get great grades doing no work. To get that requires effort".
My next step is to give him the father-son talk my dad gave me as a kid. "Donald (he said). I can't make you study but I sure as hell can make you wish you had."
My son is similar, but he's now a freshman in college. He did ok for himself academically considering he barely studied in high school. But I'm going to use baseball as a comparison. He's a pitcher at a small D3 school in Ohio (whose team is actually pretty good). In high school, he never worked on his velocity and he spent almost no time in the gym, building strength. He hated it and wasn't motivated at all. As a result, his velocity wasn't stellar. But he had a command of four pitches, so he worked around it. Still, I wondered why not have both? Why not work hard, increase your velocity since that's what college coaches are looking for, and you could go D1? The answer: It's not my life. And more importantly, he has to learn these things himself, through experience. Let your son develop his own internal motivation by letting him suffer the consequences. He may never be how you think he should be, but constant pushing could harm your relationship with him. I'm not trying to be preachy; I experienced this with my kid. Being away at college has been the best thing for both of us!
This is such a great response - thanks Wendy!
"It's not my life.", is so simple and understandable but so extremely difficult to adhere to. This is truly my mantra for our three kids (youngest is in college).
I could write volumes on this subject! I spent a lot of time observing other parents to see how they handled all these issues. My parents were so hands-off, I had no real model. I was a self-sufficient kid so didn't need a lot of guidance. My parents lucked out on that front. I'm thinking about MGrowOld's kid and wonder if a 3.8 is good enough for HIM? If it is, great! A 3.8 is a great GPA. For my kid, playing at a D3 school is fine with him. He'd probably implode from anxiety in a D1 program. It was my own ego and whatever else that wanted him to push harder. I have a friend whose son was always the best athlete in school but as he got older, and the pool got bigger, that changed. But he had the same issue as MGrowOld's kid, which is he was always told he was the best so when he had to work hard to earn that title, when it didn't come easily anymore, he imploded. He ended up in rehab and dropped out of school. Extreme case, yes, but I learned a lot about teenagers and pressure from them.
Great response, Wendy. My son is now 21 and there were some tense times in high school and early college. He's now a junior at UM, but it was a lot of learning and ups and downs and one withdrawn semester to get there. Facing consequences and without a parental shield is such an important lesson.
I disagree, somewhat, with this. I believe it's more about balancing the two. I don't want to be an overbearingly pushy parent, but I'm not going to avoid giving advice or motivation that could benefit my kids. There are certain lessons people have to learn on their own, but good advice might be taken so I'm definitely not sitting passively by and just observing.
I don't know how old your kids are but at some point, you let go. You trust that they'll take care of themselves. In my case with my son, it was hard for me to give him the space to make decisions without me making a judgmental face or comment if I didn't agree with what he was doing. The second-guessing made him question himself and was more detrimental than helpful. I'm talking high school when kids should be doing homework by themselves and starting to find their own motivation. Eventually they're on their own and they shouldn't have to call you all the time for advice and instructions on how to live their lives.
The sooner you have that "talk," the better. The longer he goes ingraining these behaviors and type of thinking, the more difficult it is to correct.
The talk is good and recommended but it wears you out. Ultimately like anything they need to decide for themselves what’s important.
A good solid minimum wage job can possibly assist this effort.
Be careful he's not burning out, but more importantly that it's for him. Hearing how smart and gifted he is all the time can also create unnecessary pressures. Such as he gets a B and it's the end of the world. If not careful he'll end up feeling as though the achievements are expected rather than celebrated, and more for others than himself. From personal experience, just make sure he/she understands it's to create the opportunity for them later in life that you hope they attain, for them.
My son is so gifted, he is the most gifted, most handsome boy in his entire class He’s in advanced classes and gets 4.0. I tell him everyday how special he is.
Problem is he thinks he’s smarter than he is. That is likely a lot of your fault for making it seem like anything less than perfection is unacceptable.
Strongly recommend the learning scientists or some form of cognitive science strategies for learning. Not many know about them and they highlight a lot of common learning issues. Most kids learn poorly because learning well takes effort so most people think they learn best when things are easy. Doing things like retrieval practice, spaced practice, etc. will feel more difficult but you'll end up learning more and lowering anxiety. Make it Stick is a good book about it too.
Teacher here-- you can't motivated them, they have to do it themselves. And frankly the more we talk to them, the less they listen. You can tell them your expectation and then " lower their standard of living" until expectations are met. By that I mean take away all but the essentials-- cell phone, gaming system, car, etc. Give them x amount of time to meet the standards. Don't say another word until the pre-determined time period is up.
This works for most kids-- the thing is it is REALLY hard to do as a parent. It's hard to watch your kid suffer (they aren't suffering in any true sense of the word, but they feel as if they are and they will make you believe it) and it's hard not to say "Well, if you would've just...."
excellent post greatlakestate. You have to be a teacher, this is so on point.
to add on, also make it clear that as a parent, you're OK with a B or C now and then, you won't love them any less, it is the child's grade not yours. Of course, you won't tolerate slacking and living for internet at the expense of studying. There you can lay down the rules. If they give their all and don't get that A, there is no punishment. If they practice time management and planning that helps them reach THEIR goals, no punishment, regardless of GPA, test scores etc.
If they reject your advice, get a C and then come to you asking for help on how to bring up that grade - do so with plenty of "I told you so" and reinforce that grades are for them, not you. Grades have to be the student's goal. It's never going to work for long if it's the parents' goal. And don't be afraid to take away privileges, but not for a particular grade in a particular class. Explore other class options that might be a better fit if need be.
My daughter came home with a C on some test and asked if I was mad. I said absolutely not, it was her grade, and I had no right to be mad. As a result she is very focused on what she wants to accomplish, not on my expectations. She's doing very well.
My daughter is the same and I am so relieved! I don't know if I could deal with another one like my son. She needs no pushing, wants a lot for herself, and figures out how to get it.
Yes, this is my 29th year of teaching. You makes some excellent points. Of course, love is (should be) unconditional. And the earlier you make your kid's grades/homework etc, THEIR responsibility the better off everyone is. I see parents go too far either way though...Parent Type A put a great amount of pressure on their kids to get all As, be the star athlete and get the lead in the play. It makes for some anxious kids. Parent Type B lets the kid take responsibility but won't take any action when their capable child brings home Ds and Fs.
Parenting can be tough!
I can't make you study but I sure as hell can make you wish you had.
I'm going to use that.
Probably today.
No worries, happy to help. I am a long way from those talks with my own kids. Two 4 month old twin girls and a three year old girl. Which is crazy in and of itself. By then I should have a lot of practice talking to teenagers, so hopefully it pays off. Unfortunately it is hard for a lot of kids to see the forest through the trees, which as teenagers makes sense. But with colleges and universities, especially Michigan, being so competitive, kids really have to have perfect grades and standardized test scores to get in. Which a lot them don't realize until its too late.
Hey fellow counselor! Where at if I might ask?
A high school in St. Clair County.
1. Nobody on this team is ready for the NBA.
2. This team is pretty tight. No one is leaving because of some kid spewing trash online.
3. JP took some heat on the internet. Him and about 5k other athletes. Poole had a rough go at times, but he was a first year starter. He will grow with experience and under Beilein's tutelage. He could be really good next year.
4. Our internet is no different than any other teams. Best advice for parents/players/coaches. Don't read it, and if you must, realize it's just a way for people to vent.
You might want to go back and look at some of his highlight reel drives to the basket if you don't see the NBA potential. And I disagree with the negative presumption that he "mentally checks out of games."
The negativity from the fan base towards JP is bizarre. He may ultimately be our best player. He plays with wonderful enthusiasm and I'm sure he's hard working. He's the reason we made it past the 2nd round of the tourney the past 2 years. He seems like a good guy with a team first attitude and no off court problems.
I agree that he doesn't seem NBA ready but others correctly point out that the NBA drafts on potential and he seems like a high character individual with loads of potential.
I think the issue is that Poole and Beilein don't see eye to eye. There was at least one instance this year when Charles Matthews had to defuse an exchange between them. Beilein wants efficiency above all else on offense. Poole is a talented scorer but he is never going to be a particularly efficient player. He needs volume, but he plays in an offense that wants limited possessions and an objectively "high quality" look every time down the floor and leaves little room for improvisation.
The issue was exacerbated by the coaching staff doing little to get him open shots in the flow of the offense. Very few off-ball screens to create looks, seldom was he the handler on the pick and roll. I believe he was the best offensive player on the team and there was almost no focus or intent on getting him the ball in advantageous positions.
I think Poole is really talented player, but frankly it would not surprised me if he transferred or declared if he was reasonably certain he would be drafted, even low second round. I am not certain Beilein would be beside himself with grief either. It has been a difficult fit thus far.
You might have an opinion but unless you missed it IGGY went o’fer in his last game. If you say that’s NBA ready, that’s more than one way to think outside the box. He could go pro but lots of kids enter the draft and that means as much as being a CEO @ Burger King right now.