OT: Will Tiger Woods break Jack's record for Major titles?
Well...that could have gone better.
After Tiger's disastrous week at the Bridgestone Invitational in Akron where he finished 18 over par and in 78th place (on a course he has won 7 tournaments), the questions about Tiger's place in golf history might actually be worth asking.
The questions used to be "By how many majors will Tiger surpass Jack ?" and "At what age will Tiger pass Jack? 30? 35?", now what was once a foregone conclusion seems to be legitimately in doubt and the question becomes "Will Tiger pass Jack...at all?"
MGoOpinion Poll: Will Tiger eclipse Jack's 18 Major titles?
Yes.
He needs to get his shit together though. (obvious statement #1)
And Tiger's golf woes are clearly a mental thing. (obvious statement #2)
Isn't he a Buddhist? If so, he just needs to start meditating more since the entire purpose of meditation (in many Buddhist traditions at least) is to clear your head of mental chatter and help you be present in the moment. That is no doubt the perfect cure for what ails him on the golf course.
Anyhow, the dude is rich, he'll no doubt bring in some of the best coaches (or Tony Robbins) this off-season to help him with the mental side of things, and to clear his head, but, really the best resource he could use to do that is right in front of him in his own religious tradition.
We'll see. He's got a huge slump to get out of here, and it's not going to be easy.
This coming weekend at Whistling will be tough for him though either way. It's not designed for his usual style of play, so it'll be interesting to see how he does in preparing himself mentally. Hopefully nothing epic goes down, because I just turned down a free ticket to go watch on Thursday and Friday so I could work...
August 9th, 2010 at 10:38 AM ^
I just turned down a free ticket to go watch on Thursday and Friday so I could work...
Unforgiveable!
August 9th, 2010 at 12:45 PM ^
I know, right? It's alright. I've been to Whistling before (haven't played it... unfortunately my friend that caddied there couldn't get us on for less than $400), and another friend who hasn't is taking the extra ticket.
If Tom Watson proved anything during last years British Open, its that Tiger may be playing in majors for another 20 years
Yes, exactly.
With advances in science, nutrition, training, etc. plus the fact that Tiger takes such good care of himself and stays in very good shape compared to most golfers.... the notion that he's somehow on the downward slope of his his career, as some seem to be saying, is just silly to me.
He'll be back to regular form next year, and fine in the long-run.
True, but when was the last time Watson won a Major tournament? Won any PGA tournament? The reality is that once a golfer hits 40, the career is winding down. If Tiger is still 1 or 2 wins shy of Nicklaus at this point, the odds are against him passing him.
August 9th, 2010 at 10:09 AM ^
Signed,
Vijay Singh
August 9th, 2010 at 10:39 AM ^
Vijay is clearly the exception, not the rule.
So is Tiger. How about Kenny Perry? He didn't play all that well until he was older. Fred Funk as well. The average golfer doesn't peak until their mid-to-late 30s and into their 40s. I'm not saying it is a certainty Tiger will reach a new level. I do believe that had this off the course stuff not come up, he would have peaked later on. Now, I don't know.
August 9th, 2010 at 11:35 PM ^
I saw Kenny Perry, I read Kenny Powers. Talk about your comeback stories...
This isn't the first time Tiger has hit a slump in his career, but it is his most serious. The one thing that's always been true in the past is that once he gets his game back, he wins majors in bunches. He's still young enough to bounce back and surpass Jack, but if he continues to struggle for another 3 or 4 years, it will probably be too late.
this board feels like around the horn.
Funny this topic comes up. Was just at a Butch Harmon golf event (Harmon was Tiger's coach for about 10 years) and Harmon talked about Tiger's struggles and his future.
Said his nerve's were shot for obvious reasons and that unlike many of the slightly older golfers (like Mickelson) who Tiger destroyed on tour for so long, there are a lot of newer, younger golfers who don't have the defeatist mindset because they haven't really been blown out by Tiger on the course.
He did say, and I would agree, that he feels it is just a matter of time before Tiger gets going right again. But he couldn't say one way or the other if that would translate in the five majors needed to surpass Nicklaus.
Maybe? A lot has to happen. Ask this again in a year.
Golf is a very different game. Sometimes it goes and doesn't come back
It would be shocking if he doesn't recover somewhat, but dominating again now seems doubtful. And a full on flame-out isn't impossible. Astounding
Duval is EXACTLY the guy who was in my mind as I began thinking about Tiger. Duval was THE dominant player on the Tour for a few years before Tiger showed up and then just fell off the map.
For the record, I do think Tiger will likely beat (or at least tie) Jack's record, but a few years ago I thought he would win about 25 Majors, now I think it will be 18 or 19.
August 9th, 2010 at 10:53 AM ^
Andy North was on TV and someone asked about him. He said he was good guy and all, but would never contend again on a consistent basis
How did he know? No real physical ailments, just lost it mentally. Duval was a young man. But I didn't take that line of thought seriously until this weekend.
Woods came back too soon.
August 9th, 2010 at 12:35 PM ^
back and vertigo problems. The pain caused him to try and change his "no look" swing and that didn't work. Couple that with the fact he stop being a workout warrior, and he sure did implode.
August 9th, 2010 at 12:49 PM ^
David Duval got his first win in late '98 which wasafter Tiger Woods got his first few wins and a full two years after Woods turned pro. His fall from grace started in 2002 or 2003 which was well after Woods appeared. He won the '01 Brittish Open on the heals of the Tiger slam. Also, calling him THE dominant player is a little strong. Duval won twice at the end of '98 and twice early '99 to steal the #1 spot from Tiger for a couple of months while Tiger worked on a swing change. He didn't hold the spot long and didn't win a major in that span.
As for bad comparison. Duval suffered from vertigo and back problems. Both things that can cause you to change your swing and make it difficult to find it back. Tiger hasn't had any physical problems whatsoever.
Tigers problems are 1. A long layoff from the game 2. Constant distractions and 3. Firing his swing coach and tryiong to fix his problems himself.
Tiger will get those 5 majors. You can count on it.
...he admits that he needs a lot of women to keep him on track and sets up a Hefner-style Playboy harem. He's still living with the expectations of his old image and he just can't live up to it.
My opinion is that Tiger took the wrong approach with the whole affair situation. Instead of handling it how he did, I thought he should have played along with it*. "Hell yeah, I plowed through all those skanks." "Jack Nicklaus' record? No, I'm going for Wilt Chamberlain's record." etc.
I want to go to tigerwoods.com and be greeted with a banner reading "Nailin' putts... Nailin' sluts"
*okay, I guess this would be more effective and in less poor taste if he didn't have children
Maybe that would have kept him from losing all his mental game, but I don't think he would have had a single sponsor left after a couple of days.
Nike basically built a golf brand around Tiger. I think if anyone stayed with him it would be them.
And I think the previous comment was spot on... Tiger just needs to start banging a ton of women again if he wants to win. I think that's where he gets his mojo. I don't really care one way or the other. I've always liked Jack so if he keeps his record I'm happy with it.
August 9th, 2010 at 11:22 AM ^
You can't play golf with a stiffy. he need s to get that taken care of on a regular basis before he can regain his dominance.
1. Yes. Tiger is off his game. I believe that he needed those night putting lessons (Caddy Shack reference).
2. Yes he will pass Nicklaus. He is young enough - no question.
that I smile a little bit every time I hear how poorly Tiger is playing? As a Phil Mickelson fan I can't help but think this is karma. Phil plays great golf while his wife is going through chemo and Tiger is tanking it during a self-inflicted mental collapse. Tiger is still likely the greatest player golf has ever seen, but I like Phil better.
August 9th, 2010 at 11:33 AM ^
I hear this from a lot of Phil Mickelson fans. You do know Phil has a lot of skeletons in his closet as well. The guy is a high class swinger with his wife Amy and he has a big problem with gambling (well its not a problem if you're winning is it?). Phil got caught by a Ryder Cup assistant coach at Oakland Hills checking his bets on the golf course on hole 18 during that pivotal match when he was partnered with Tiger. Anyone remember that moment? Well, he was more focused on his gambling than his golf at that time. He is also rumored to have a black child somewhere in Ohio (Columbus???) during one of his swinger escapades.
Now, all of this has never come out. Its all back channel chatter, much of like Tigers situation was (his escapades were talked about for a long long time in the golf world).
The funny thing about this is it doesn't make me dislike Phil. It just makes me laugh when I hear people talk about how great he is because they really don't know what he is hiding.
If you don't believe the stuff I just wrote, I'm sure you can google some of it or take the word of other golfers that are "in the know".
He will relax eventually and he will certainly find a way to win five more before he turns 40. He actually had a halfway decent 2009 at age 33 after a serious injury, and he has top-five finishes in both the Masters and the US Open in 2010, with the PGA, one of his best tournaments, still to go...
It's true the game is catching up to him, but barring another injury I don't see anyone who is really in a position to stop him on a regular basis.
Yes.
Tiger Woods is 34 years old.
August 9th, 2010 at 10:12 AM ^
He has at least 15 more years of winning time. Even if it takes him 5 years to get back, he onlyhas to win one every other year to do it. My guess is that he goes on a tear next year. He does, however, need to find a swing coach. He needs the pair of eyes.
August 9th, 2010 at 10:15 AM ^
He'll get out of this slump eventually. The difference is now he will only have a couple more majors then Jack compared to the dozen more people expected him to have earlier in his career.
August 9th, 2010 at 10:57 AM ^
Oh... "titles" not titties.
August 9th, 2010 at 10:47 AM ^
Tiger was using PEDs. Think about it. Why on earth would Tiger settle for $750 million with his ex-wife? As we can all agree, that number is excessive. But for what? To keep Elan quiet about his female transgressions? No. We already know that. I think she knows something way more personal and way more damaging not only to his image, but also his career.
With that, do I think Tiger will beat JN's record? Yes, but it will not be in as dominate fashion as he once did. If the rumor is true, I think he lays off the PEDs for a little. He will slowly get his mental mojo back, but won't have the physical advantage he once had. He wins a major every other year and limps his way for the finish line before he retires.
August 9th, 2010 at 10:56 AM ^
In general, HGH and Steroids are thought to help make you stronger (IE, baseball players hit harder, throw harder, etc.) Tiger's never been the longest driver on tour. Tiger's real amazing part of his game has been his Irons and putting. I don't know what PEDs would help your Iron and Short Game...
Just playing devils advocate here.
I don't know how PEDs would have helped him do anything more than get more distance on shots. And his advantage never was distance.
Most likely suspected use of human growth hormone would be playing through and recovering from injuries. Tiger won the 2008 US Open with a torn ligament. He saw Galea during his recovery from subsequent surgery. I am in no way saying I believe he took PEDs, just explaining where the suspicion comes from
August 9th, 2010 at 11:44 AM ^
I agree that if he gets there this is the most likely scenario...one every other year or so...but it is far from certain. It takes a lot to win majors. He did however play well in the Masters this year - if he wins five more majors I would bet most come at Augusta. That course is the most forgiving of erratic driving, as long as you have length. That's why Mickelson has had his greatest success there.
The PED rumor has been around a while and isn't going away. I read somewhere that a confidential survey showed 24% of tour players believed Tiger had taken PEDs - it is likely far more believe it but won't say even confidentially. If he hasn't he is unusual among the clients of the infamous Dr. Galea. As a golfer and long time Nicklaus fan this is what bothers me the most - the possibility that not all Tiger's wins are legit.
August 9th, 2010 at 11:01 AM ^
Their careers are now on a very similar path.
- Nicklaus won 7 from '62-'67 (first at age 22 and '62 was his first year on tour), Tiger won 8 from '97-'02 (his first at age 22 and '97 was his first year on tour)
- Nicklaus did not win a major in '68 or'69, Tiger did not win a major in '03 or '04
- Nicklaus then won 7 from '70-'75, Tiger won 6 from '05-'08
- Nicklaus did not win again in '76 or '77, and after Tiger does not win next week he will not have won in '09 or '10
The next few years will be the big difference. Nicklaus won one in '78 but had another brillant year in '80 winning two more. He then added the magical one in '86 to get to 18. If Tiger can bounce back from the scandal, and in my opinion the bigger isse, his knee problems then he has a shot. He has had three knee surgeries already in his career and Jack never had health problems. It will be interesting to see, but I think he will TIE Jack.
Either way Jack will go down as the greatest ever, because of the fact that he finished in the Top-3 of a major championship 46 times in 163 starts. Which is plain crazy.
August 9th, 2010 at 11:47 AM ^
Tiger is going to get his act together this winter and come back with a fury. He wins 2 majors next year. Mark it down.
August 9th, 2010 at 11:53 AM ^
Years ago, when someone asked Dan Jenkins (SI, "Semi-Tough", the classic 10 point scale of drunkeness that caps at "bulletproof" and "invisible") about Tiger Woods breaking Nicklaus' record said
"The only thing that can stop him is a bad marriage".
Close enough.
August 9th, 2010 at 12:10 PM ^
Woods, by his own admission, isn't practicing enough. He isn't listening to a teacher right now, either. Both situations are correctable, and I am guessing they are corrected as soon as the inevitable divorce/custody settlement is finished. This weekend, it looked to me like Tiger was standing further away from the ball than usual, creating a flatter plane. If somebody who can't break 80 anymore can see this, so can a real teacher.
Tiger will be fine. It's just going to take a little longer than a lot of people thought. Sound familiar?