OT: Victim of Larry Nassar writes open letters to two MSU administrators
But, that process can't start, and the alleged harm can't end until someone in authority exercises that authority/responsibility to investigate and shut things down to let that process take place. Where there are allegations of this nature, seems to me that there should be a strong bias toward pulling the alleged assailant off of his duties (or supervising the hell out of them) while you get to the bottom of the facts.
The presumption here is that no one is guilty if they are not found guilty by a court of law. Whether or not some one is convicted does not determine their innocence--only who won or lost in court.
I absolutely believe in waiting for evidence before coming to a conclusion, but that is not an issue here. Not at all. There are literally dozens of accusations to go along with what amounts to an admission of guilt by the university president.
If 80 eye witnesses gave consistent stories in a murder case, would you wait for a jury's verdict to determine the guilt of the suspect? What if the case got thrown out because of a procedural error by law enforcement? Is the suspect innocent?
This isn't a police shooting or self-defense case where the suspect may or may not have been fearing for his life (on both sides). This is 80 women declaring they were assaulted by a doctor. There isn't much more relevant evidence to wait for.
"The presumption here is that no one is guilty if they are not found guilty by a court of law."
Exactly. OJ was innocent according to a jury trial, but I think it's pretty sure he killed his ex-wife. He avoided jail for that, but he was rightfully ostracized from society and lost a $33.5M civil case leading to his bankruptcy. His "innocence" really only related to whether he went to jail for killing his wife. Society sometimes just doesn't follow.
I like to stand up for what I believe in, even if it means a lot of mgoblog negs after thinking twice about making the post.
Here is some insight from one of the foremost legal minds of our time, Vincent Bugliosi:
"Contrary to common belief, the presumption of innocence applies only inside a courtroom. It has no applicability elsewhere, although the media do not seem to be aware of this. .... Actually, even in court there are problems with the presumption of innocence. ...Conviction rates show that it is ridiculous to presume that when the defendant is arrested, charged with a crime, and brought to trial, he is usually innocent. But obviously, the converse presumption that a defendant is presumed to be guilty would be far worse and, indeed, intolerable. ... "
An excerpt from his book Outrage
I know you mean well, but quoting Bugliosi in matters of criminal justice IMO is like asking the the executioner if there is anything that can be done to make his job easier on him.
Thank you, though, for not making a personal attack. I respect you outlook if it like Bugliosi's, a life-long prosecutor, I just do not agree with it. The presumption of innocence in court is what separates us from other legal systems.
says two things to me: (1) there is a hell of a lot of work that needs to be done (in most places, I'd guess) to make sure that people are sensitized to this issue and that they have systems in plce to make sure this doesn't happen, and that when it does, the system works proactively and prompty to protect the kids/athletes and thoroughly investigate the allegations; and (2) that there needs to be a total housecleaning in East Lansing. Perhaps some are more (or less) responsible than others, but they need a clean sweep to show that they are serious about this and want to get much better right away.
She deserves admiration for doing this. It takes uncommon strength and courage to discuss this sort of thing in public.
We will presumably never stop child sex abuse, but she is correct to note that abusers often escape punishment because adults fail to notice warning signs or ignore allegations of abuse. Those who abuse children sexually often have more than one victim. They sometimes have dozens or even more. And the number of their victims could often be limited if only the first signs of their abuse were noticed and taken seriously.
"The school dismissed her claim after consulting with four medical experts that had ties to either Nassar or the university, telling them they did not understand the “nuanced difference” between sexual assault and Nassar’s medical procedure."
Four medical experts couldn't see that girls going in for back pain and getting a vaginal examination instead were being sexually assaulted. Fire everyone.
According to the Lansing State Journal, the school dismissed her claim after consulting with four medical experts that had ties to either Nassar or the university, telling them they did not understand the “nuanced difference” between sexual assault and Nassar’s medical procedure.
Not a medical expert here, just an RN who has, among other things, placed urinary catheters, given enemas and provided bedside toileting hygiene for men and women at U of M and the VA: If the patient has ANY DOUBT about what you're doing, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. A clinician explains the the rationale for an intervention first, then describes the intervention itself, answers questions, gains consent and finally performs the intervention - soliciting and responding appropriately to feedback from the patient.
These "medical experts" are as fucking dirty and complicit as Nassar. Shameful.
The medical professional doing an exam or procedure around a patient's private areas is always (A) chaperoned by another medical professional (for both the patient's and the medical professionals' protection) and (B) wearing a glove.
Nassar's case is about as nuanced as finding a 50+ year old defensive coordinator sexually assaulting a child in a shower. By which I mean not nuanced at all.
That is the smoking gun right there for MSU to start the firings. Nobody has to wait for any legal resolution. There was a serious inquiry and, besides doing the absolute wrong thing at the time, they did nothing to prevent Nassar from continuing.
So who ultimately is accountable for the purging? The Board of Regents? State legislature? Governor?
... really well written articles/documents/letters/etc... I couldn't imagine being so eloquent and thoughtful if I had to write about something so painful. Really incredible stuff.
I hope I am wrong, but at this point I am very cynical.
for a victim of sexual assault or rape. There is clearly a lot of pain, anger and outrage, so the knee-jerk response is to lash out, public shame and humiliate.
I understand that. But it doesn't make it a wise decision.
If it were me, I would be focusing all of my attention, resources and energy on making a water tight civil case to ensure the university - assuming they are guilty of wrongdoing - pays for their negligence and enablement.
The criminal case is well underway, so that's a good thing.
You read those letters and the description that came to your mind was "knee-jerk?"
I don't see those letters being about catharsis or publicly shaming and humilating. It's about holding people in positions of power accountable.
"If it were me" is a really condescending thing to say to the victim of a sex crime, especially one who spoke up and was not believed.
a letter (intentionally shared with the media) like this does nothing but sell clicks and garner public attention and pity, which for the victim of sexual assault and rape is empty, worthless, doesn't last and doesn't change anything regarding future victims.
So I would not be interested in any of that. I do understand it though. Anger and rage is a normal human response to injustice.
I'd want carefully planned revenge so that those responsible will pay a very high and permanent price for their negligence, smug indifference, inaction and the overt aid of a recidivist sexual predator.
This isn't about you or what you would do (which, unless you've been attacked like she has been, you cannot possibly know.)
A word of this. You do realize that she could be doing all of that stuff and still take time to sit down and write a letter?
I would think she felt pretty empowered and almost cathartic to put these thoughts on paper and let others know what went down.
Just stop your train of thought. It's stupid.
She's citing research to specifically dispute the false claims made by the president and dean. She's using the language (research) that wins arguments at universities, and her points will not be missed by the faculty and graduate students at MSU and at universities across the country.
These are not rants. These are carefully crafted and well thought out letters that publicly hold the president's and the dean's feet to the fire.
She does include statements to show the callousness and lack of empathy of the president and dean toward their own students. However, none of this evoked pity in me for Rachael. Empathy, absolutely, but not pity. Pity (in my mind) is for those who truly cannot help themselves, and I do not think most people want other's pity. I doubt Rachael is seeking pity--she seems quite strong. It appears from these letters she is seeking accountability consequences, and public awareness, both for herself and for other victims and potential future victims. As she should.
She is responding to public announcements by the president of MSU and email comments by the dean that were made public in a news story. Had these leaders not gone on record in support of Nassar or rationalizing their lack of action, the victim wouldn't be writing these letters. They are very well written and call out the bull shit that leaders at MSU are shoveling.
I disagree with your point about not changing anything for future victims. I think any time a victim of sexual abuse speaks out, it's empowering to both past and future victims. And it just might prevent sexual abuse by empowering a woman to try and physically stop her abuser when she otherwise might not have the courage to do so. I also would imagine being the victim of such a horrible crime would make a woman feel alone, and to know that someone else went through the same thing and came out the other side being able to stand up for herself and other victims would be very comforting.
I disagree with your point about not changing anything for future victims. I think any time a victim of sexual abuse speaks out, it's empowering to both past and future victims. And it just might prevent sexual abuse by empowering a woman to try and physically stop her abuser when she otherwise might not have the courage to do so. I also would imagine being the victim of such a horrible crime would make a woman feel alone, and to know that someone else went through the same thing and came out the other side being able to stand up for herself and other victims would be very comforting.
...she hopes to have an impact that reduces sex abuse in the future. That may or may not happen, but she waited a long time to write these letters. I think it was about more than anger.
I suspect she has a legal team putting the case together. I also suspect that her legal advisors had no problem with her writing these and may have even assisted in some of the language to keep her out of legal counter-suit territory.
I am all for her doing whatever she damn well pleases, especially if it publicly humiliates those who are directly or indirectly responsible for this shit-show.
First I have seen these letters. Obviously, this woman is consumed by the pain and rage she feels from being victimized by what I will only describe as an animal. She has done an incredible amount of research and with these letters has essentially hit two deserving administrators in the face with the written equivalent of an iron skillet.
To me, those letters were the written version of dropping the mike and walking off stage.
I just hope that the author of these letters will be able to move far away from the trauma she has experienced and live a more joyful life one day. She and the other victims certainly deserve that.
As for MSU and the individuals involved in the actual cover-up. May they rot in the bowels of hell.
I'm not sure she's consumed by pain and rage at Nassar. I'm sure that's in there, but it could also be that she is equally angry at those who allowed Nassar to continue to operate at MSU.
It could also be that she is driven by a want to protect future potential victims. The research says the most effective way for predators to be stopped is by having those higher in the power structure stop them. By publicly refuting Simon and the dean, she is making it more likely that other university presidents/deans/admin will take the testimony of victims more seriously. The deans/presidents may not care about the victims, but they do care about their own skin/reputation.
very well written, very powerful, appropriate and damning. The more I learn about this Nassar business, the more disgusted I am at these supposed intellectual administrators who are in charge of the well being of young adults. I hope the hammer is heavy and has a very broad imprint and impact when it drops.
Once again, how the F*CK does Mark Hollis still have a job?
but somehow Hollis seems to have flown under the radar in all of this. Last I checked, the MSU women's gymnastics program is part of the athletic department.
It won't be anytime soon though. MSU is a rather immense organization and this is "organizational inertia" at work here. The MSU Board of Trustees won't act here unless they HAVE to act. The pressure isn't that large. Yet.
Compared vs PSU --- the PSU Board of Trustees did tell Spanier and Curley to "resign or get fired" and they did fire Paterno within 4 days --- but they DID have to act. The pressure was immense and there was also the "hard deadline" of a football game at Noon Saturday (had to make a decision, whatever it was, prior to then).
Why aren't the Detroit News & the Free Press reporters camped out on MSU's campus ? Why aren't they writing stories EVERY DAY about these issues at MSU ????.... Remember 'Stretch-Gate'? They certainly were writing stories every day for several weeks (months?) during that investigation.... Why? The answer is clear = MSU bias.
Forget Washington, this is the REAL fake news!
Denhollander's letter was particularly damning. Strampel should be deeply ashamed.
Zero difference between this situation and Penn State situation. Former President and AD at Penn State got convicted of crimes did they not? Do it again here. Maybe, just maybe, people will figure out that this cover up, denial, obfuscation bullshit that goes on once people are made aware of certain things isn't OK. I have some naive faith deep down inside that everyone - Nassar, Simon, Strampel, Hollis and D'Antonio (for unrelated but related transgressions) - is going down for this eventually.
"Michigan State University police looked into a complaint filed against Nassar by another athlete in 2014 who said Nassar became aroused after massaging her breasts and vagina during a visit to treat hip pain; they passed to the Ingham County Prosecutor’s Office, which declined to press charges."
Admittedly, I know very little about the legal system, so I hope someone on the board can clarify how the Ingham County Prosecutors Office can just decline to press charges on something like this. Doesn't the victim have a say?
I know there have been times in the past (and present) when many have wondered if the Ingham County Prosecutors Office is in cahoots with MSU to help decline cases that may shed negative light upon the university, its athletes, administration, et al. To me this feels like it would fall into the same category, but again, I admit my ignorance on such matters. So, is the prosecutor potentially complicit here as well, or is this all on the up and up?
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
It's hard not to go there.
Can Ingham County be sued for this? They sure look bad here as well. Sure as hell they have a cozy relationship with MSU--it's the largest employer in the county. And again, the University has known for some time that there were more than one complaints about Nassar doing some very disgusting things and he was allowed to continue his work without even any extra supervision or censure apparently.