OT: UM To Withdraw From Hosting Presidential Debate
For a host of reasons probably a smart idea.
Avoiding political controversy isn't exactly "leading"
Edit: I was thinking more along the lines of them still hosting the debate but in a socially distant manner (many ways to do it - even by remote if necessary).
Have you heard of coronavirus?
It's a pretty big deal.
Seems a bit nuts to me...it's ok to reopen the University with 49,000 students and another roughly 30,000 employees, all of whom will social distance appropriately while living/working in close proximity, and a debate over the course of a few hours will be too dangerous to proceed with.
I'm missing something.
You're missing the crowds that will show up to watch, protest, or both. One side of which refuses to wear masks, practice social distancing, and thinks covid is the flu.
Why the fuck would Schliss want that pack of plague spreaders on campus?
Yes. He’s also forgetting that no matter the basal risk, hosting this is extra and that extra risk may not be welcome. Furthermore, whereas housing/teaching the kids (and employing the town) inextricably brings advantages to counterbalance the risks of “reopening,” hosting a presidential debate may bring insufficient advantages to justify it. Especially since its cancellation doesn’t remove it from the calendar but merely moves it to a new town. In sum: whatever.
I'm generally pragmatic about most things and that includes having gone to Michigan as well as having a couple of kids who attended U of M not that many years ago. I simply don't see how social distancing is going to work at any major university. Are 49,000 people largely in the age bracket of 18-25 going to stop socializing, doing lots of drinking, smoking pot, having sex and doing all the things that make college fun? If so, I'd be shocked.
Would a presidential debate have had enhanced CV19 risk of spread? Of course, but considerably less than bringing people back to campus.
Maybe I'm just being cynical, but I wonder if Michigan having to pay at least $2.5 million to host the debate as well as likely generating at least that much more in costs had more to do with the decision than just CV19 fears.
The article states that Hofstra spent $5M hosting the debate in 2016. Schlissel claims donors would pick up the tab, but I prefer those donors support more immediate needs.
The article states that Hofstra spent $5M hosting the debate in 2016. Schlissel claims donors would pick up the tab, but I prefer those donors support more immediate needs. The debate is going to happen elsewhere. I don’t think the University of Michigan needs a shot of prestige that costs $5M.
Just get Pioneer to charge $150 for parking. Problem solved.
Go Blue!!
What are you gonna wring your hands about when covid is done? Have you planned it out or are you just gonna play it by ear?
"What are you going to wring your hands about after you're done fighting cancer? Have you planned it out, or are you just gonna play it by ear?"
I'm gonna go to the memorial services for friends and relatives who have died of the disease while it is too dangerous to have funerals for them. What are you going to do?
Oh boy, another Youtube epidemologist
Yep - I agree. All of the recent anti law enforcement protests have shown the left has a total lack of regard to social distancing. I assume that is the 'one side' you are referencing.
You're right about covid not being the flu....the flu kills kids, covid largely spares them.
Here's an interesting thought from Yoram Lass, the ex- director general of Israel’s Ministry of Health:
“If you look at the numbers, in 2017, 25,000 Italians died from flu complications. Now you have around 30,000 dying from coronavirus. So it is a comparable number. You should not ruin a country for comparable numbers.”
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/22/nothing-can-justify-this-destruction-of-peoples-lives/
Ugh, that is not an interesting thought at all. In the US, 20,000 - 60,000 people die of flu complications in a typical year. This year, in the last 3 months, 120,000 people have died directly from COVID. That was while the country was shut down. We're already seeing a spike in cases with minimal interactions around the country. Surely there will be more than 200,000 deaths this year alone, probably many more. Further, Flu deaths are calculated based on macro trends. There aren't many deaths that show Flu on the death certificate. COVID is directly killing people and we still don't really understand it. If you apply the same methodology as Flu to COVID the numbers are probably doubled or tripled. It's a fucked up disease that we still don't really understand it. Have you ever seen a hospital pushed beyond capacity for Flu while all elective procedures are cancelled and all other physical injuries are way down? It's a problem. Don't be so stupid.
Well, the gains and losses report at our facility shows Covid as the cause of death even in "prior positive" cases who died with a host of co-morbidities. Over reporting Covid as cause of death is a real phenomenon and will be brought to light once more longitudinal studies can be done. How much it happens I have no idea. But it is happening. Having said that, it does kill people. The tension between safety and liberty is a razors edge, we all walk it differently.
From an mgobiochemist and mgomedical doctor:
Bullshit. The mechanisms for underreporting are significantly more robust than the mechanisms for overreporting.
I've personally heard of at least a dozen cases from someone in the field that was forced to report CV as the cause of death even with no evidence of it. You could be asymptomatic and die of cancer but since you had it they would put it as the cause of death. I know someone that was threatened with the loss of their job if they did not comply. And if i've heard of a bunch of these cases (and i don't know that many people in the field) there are sure to be a whole lot more out there.
So on the one hand we hear random anecdotal stories of over-reporting. On the other hand we have: 1) comparison of reported deaths with excess mortality, which is consistent with the assertion that if anything, covid deaths are under-reported, 2) widespread quotes from the people who do this for a living that if anyhing there is under-reprting.
I have no doubt here are real cases on both sides of the line, but there is almost no real evidence that there is any large under reporting, We also know the President would love for there to be significant under reporting, we also know that he has the resources to study the issue, yet I have yet to see anyone point to any actual analysis/data that actually backs up their assertion.
Bullshit
That was quite the convincing argument.
Longballs, your statement is entirely inaccurate except for the part that docs don't list flu on a death certificate. Flu is normally a secondary cause to underlying conditions and not listed as a cause of death. When it comes to COVID, docs are required to list covid as the cause of death even if it was totally an underlying condition that cause the death. In other words, if someone with covid is shot and dies from the gun shot wound, they are listed as a covid death. This is entirely inflating the number of covid deaths. Source: my brother in law, who is a doc, being required to do so.
Bottom line is, healthy people are not dying from covid. It is very contagious but the deaths are mostly older people with underlying conditions... same as the flu. The only difference is that it is very, very easy to catch so that group needs to be very cautious.
Please stop. The ridiculous Coronavirus is not the flu argument was debunked months ago. Even conspiracy nuts have stopped spouting this nonsense.
In Michigan, the flu killed 1798 people in 2017. It was the 9th leasing cause of death. So far in less than 4 months, Covid has killed 6097. It would have been the third leasing cause of death in 2017.
Not to mention the disruption of all activities on the athletic campus (which is not limited to athletics); police, safety, transpo (buses), plant, and more are in that complex. They were told they may need to relocate for two weeks (or more) around the debate. Even without COVID (and all the uncertainty), that was going to be a nightmare. With COVID? Just not worth the hassle.
This shouldn't be that hard to understand.
Your reference to 50K students and 30K employees only proves the point of not hosting the debate.
The school should be focused on one thing - and one thing only - making the environment as safe as possible for the students, university employees, and other residents of Ann Arbor. Hosting an event such as a presidential debate unnecessarily brings tens of thousands of people from all over the country to the area.
The nature of a school like the University of Michigan already brings a unique set of risks and circumstances relative to the current pandemic. There's no reason to complicate it even further by hosting a presidential debate.
Ignorant people getting absolutely fucking dunked on in these Covid threads are the best part of this whole situation
I don't really understand why any of the debates need to be hosted at locations. I don't think there should be crowds at these debates. Just the moderators and the two nominees. Can be run in any studio or one of the meeting rooms in Capitol Hill. Seems like cities and schools shouldn't be spending millions to host these.
Stable community interactions have much lower transmission than mixing of people from far flung places.
Double post...add that to the list of needed site improvements.
I mean, they asked to host a political debate between the GOP and Dem nominees for president months before the pandemic hit. By all accounts, they knew that Donald Trump was the president of the United States. If they were trying not to get involved in "politics" they picked a weird way to go about it.
It's a "deep state" thing, or something.
That was before the deadly pandemic -- and before millions of anti-science rubes decided that wearing a mask during a pandemic is an assault on their liberty.
Never mind the tens of thousands or much higher amount of people who came out night after night to protest. NOTHING has or will come close to that level of crowd size this year in the area.
Talk about losing all credibility as all local leaders completely contradicted the things they pushed every day before this.
The hypocrisy with this is off the charts and this is completely obvious to someone that's voted democrat every time. Embarrassing how low some of went just for obvious political gain
Dude you are comparing an organised indoor event that is sanctioned by a multi billion dollar educational institution to outdoor protests that were spontaneously sparked by a series of brutal killings.
I don't care which party you've voted for this comparison is insane. Especially as you see this as politically motivated...which party benefits from this cancellation?
First, very few protests had over 10,000 people. Second, just about all protesters wore masks.
I was down south in an area that is currently surging in Coronavirus cases. No masks, no social distancing, no restrictions on anything.
So, here's my question: What's more dangerous - a city/suburban area of 250,000 that is every day living without masks, going to gyms, going to PACKED (literally, lines out the door) restaurants, etc. all without distancing and masks... again EVERY DAY. What's the number of people that interact per day in that situation? Must be over 50,000, right?
Just by thinking about the numbers, it's pretty clear to me that the complete opening without safety precautions is far more problematic than a few protests where everyone is (largely) wearing masks.
If there was ever a time...........
My thinking was that they could still host the debate, but it a safe manner (even by remote if needed). A complete canceling of the debate might not have been necessary.
Watching 2 idiots argue isn't a debate
Maizen vs Franklin Hatchet?
I don’t care what your political affiliation is a debate between these two individuals is not something that anyone will enjoy. Bunch of wannabe tough guys trading cringey one-liners.
I think they should box.
Joseph de Maistre was quoted as saying "Every country has the government it deserves."
What a scathing indictment of American politics if this year's eventual nominees are the best we can do.
I like Biden.
Big duche or turd sandwich?
A Giant Douche Vs. A Turd Sandwich
If you're going to make references to the greatest tv show of all time at least get it right
/Bold opinion
Agree about greatest tv show.
I dont know which is my favorite part though "Vote or die bitch" or "this is my wife"
Well thats a shame.
A smart move, especially given the fact they're trying to limit large gatherings on campus anyway.