OT: Penn State at Ohio State - did you watch? Observations / Perspectives?
There seems to be one primary topic of discussion underway - and, in the spirit of chatting about something else, I thought this might be of interest. Both of these teams are on Michigan's schedule - with a trip to Happy Valley on November 11th, and The Game in Ann Arbor two weeks later. I realize the Buckeyes were without a few key players on their roster on both sides of the ball.
Did you watch Penn State vs Ohio State? If so - what did you think?
A few takeaways / perspectives:
Defensively: It seemed like both defenses were "ok to good" - with a lot of pressure being applied by OSU's front four. It seemed that the Buckeyes were able to pressure Allar without bringing more than four. The run game D for both teams stopped the opposition - and, coincidentally - both teams averaged 1.9 yards per carry on rush attempts. Was it "good" D - or "less than fantastic" O?
Offensively: Are these OL's strong? It seems there are questions on how effective the blocking schemes are for both teams. When PSU was on offense and in the shotgun - it struck me that the exchange (snap) could have been more consistent - it seemed like Allar was reaching down to catch the snap quite often. QB play - McCord was more solid than Allar. It was Allar's first game in a very hostile (non supportive) environment - and his delivery seemed to be "a bit off". The PSU receiving corps didn't seem that deep - which leads to questions of passing accuracy - route running - separation - time to throw - etc. Harrison was the difference in the Bucks passing game. Harrison and Stover caught about 2/3 of the completed passes, which accounted for over 80% of the Buckeyes passing yardage.
Coaching: Decisions by Franklin continue to surprise me, and perhaps they shouldn't. The most perplexing coaching call was Franklin's / PSU's decision to go for a fourth and 4 - from their own 43 yard line - midway through the fourth quarter. It was a one score game at that time (13-7) - it was a field position game - a punt with a subsequent stop (three and out, or one first down and a punt) - would have given PSU decent field position - a one score difference - and five minutes left on the clock. The result - PSU turns it over on downs - OSU finds the end zone - and it's a two score game.
I respect every opponent and am not counting any chickens - but, it did show both of these future opponents in a high profile game.
Would you have gone for it in the fourth quarter if you were Franklin? What impressed or surprised you about the teams? Any perspectives you'd like to share?
Go Blue!
October 25th, 2023 at 8:57 AM ^
Of course I watched, I was at the game. I have it all on my phone. I made sure to get those funny signs before each play too.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:27 AM ^
Are you the reason franklins awesome, innovative and surprising play calling was met with rps losses?
like he said he calls pass on 4th and short, and the other team is in cover 2. They must be stealing signs!!!!!!!
October 25th, 2023 at 11:07 AM ^
I heard from a gal who heard from a guy that Jimmy hates Cryin' Ryan so much that he had Stalion furnish frames with OSU's signs. But Ryan got wind of it in the second half and Frames forgot Jimmy's advice to just run it down OSU's throat. . .
October 25th, 2023 at 9:44 AM ^
Did you give that footage to Coach Harbaugh?
October 25th, 2023 at 9:45 AM ^
I've been waiting all week to lambaste "the pretender" Frames Janklin. What a fraud. All he can do is recruit. He then out-talents B1G garbage and complains about our schedule. He used to get a free pass above Harbaugh because, early on, he lucked into a B1G championship on a blocked OSU FG.
He is literally the worst game-manager on any sideline. Worse than his going on 4th and 4, despite holding OSU in check all day, was a 4th and 1 at midfield in the first half that he didn't go on, after trying to throw for a 3rd and 1.
My other observations were that Brian Cook is a FB genius, literally saying that both these teams are pretty flawed, but that only one of them has a transcendent player, and that that player will be the difference. He absolutely was. It was pretty obvious early on that PSU could only win that game with some flukes, because OSU's offense was just %20 better, or so. But don't let that fool anyone. Kyle McCord is not coming up to Ann Arbor, with no running game, and winning against this Michigan team. McCord made enough plays at home to get his team over the top. But he's shaky, and Minter is more clever than Manny Diaz. Also, Michigan DT's will be in his face all game.
I wouldn't be surprised to watch PSU drop the Maryland game. Their bubble has been burst, and they must feel demoralized, and there is a clear recipe for beating them. However, Maryland likely plays into PSU's strengths in that PSU needs the other team's offense to make catastrophic mistakes.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:11 AM ^
Leading up to the game I thought PSU was gonna win until i heard Brian's comment and that changed my mind as well. And then watching the game, felt like a number of Michigan's games where the opponent couldn't get ANYTHING going. Allar was exactly who Seth predicted he would be at the beginning of the season. We really should appreciate that we have such a good thing going on here at MGO that no other fanbase has.
PSU's offensive inability made it hard to figure out if OSUs defense is any good though. It's very possible that we watched a B1G West game.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:57 AM ^
I was with you. I thought they'd finally get osu because osu had not looked like anything special. Maybe home field helped a little, as did MHJ being allowed to run into anyone and draw flags. But that said, Frames gakked this one big time and his team was shell-shocked.
For the 7 weeks prior, this was the game I was worried about for M but I doubt anyone can convince me osu's D is better than M's. They'll execute a gimmick or two, but I do not see PSU being overall competitive with M down-to-down.
And for that matter, osu does not scare me either. Both offenses were discombobulated and all the articles of "it's only because osu has MHJ" are spot on IMO. The defenses had something to do with it -- they both looked pretty good. Regardless, if M stays sharp, they should run the table (college football, anything can still happen). I think only M can beat M this year. Nationally.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:46 AM ^
Frames reminds me a lot of Lloyd. Out-talented most opponents but was frequently, embarrassingly outcoached, especially down the stretch.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:11 AM ^
Wasn’t Lloyd like 20-8 against Top 10 teams or something? Franklin is an embarrassing 3-infinity. That comparison is unfair to Lloyd
October 25th, 2023 at 1:48 PM ^
Yeah, Lloyd was amazing against top 10 teams and unranked teams. The infuriating part was he struggled with games against #11-25.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:30 AM ^
The Lloyd who won a NC, 5 B1G titles, was 1-0 against Urban Meyer, beat Alabama in a BCS bowl? The same Lloyd who had great OL's and put every starting QB he coached into the NFL?
Lloyd didn't make stupid decisions, he made ultra-conservative football decisions, but was very consistent in doing that, which cost him some games. Frames Janklin couldn't mow Lloyd's lawn.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:31 AM ^
Did you notice that whenever Franklin looked up at the sky, Allar would airmail his next receiver?
October 25th, 2023 at 8:58 AM ^
If my offense was "humming" then maybe, but PSU was far from humming at that point. And besides a couple passes to MH3, OSU was pretty stale as well.
I think we beat both of them by multiple scores easily
October 25th, 2023 at 8:58 AM ^
Not the right call going for it there. That basically ended the game. You had given up 13 points all game and 7 of it was on one play. Punt, play D and get the ball back.
My thoughts after watching the game was that Michigan should crush both of these teams. Penn state did not look good at all. Their defense is OK, but OSU can't run the ball so they just kind of sat back and tried to prevent the big plays. OSU looked like the lions with Calvin Johnson. They can't run the ball and if you can stop MHIII from going off you can really control the game.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:01 AM ^
I mean, that is definitely Ohio State’s best play right now: throw it up to Marvin. He’ll catch most of them, and what he doesn’t catch will generally be called a defensive pass interference.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:47 AM ^
I don't know football well enough to know how to stop that play beyond getting to the QB as quick as possible. MHJ going off is the way they beat us, and Michigan's ability to stop that will be key. No way to shut it down fully.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:12 AM ^
Zone, put guys in places they aren't supposed to and bait McCord into throwing it. He still threw some bad passes and was very hesitant. I watched with some PSU fans and when the Michigan game came on, they were all disheartened by the difference in McCord/Allar and JJ.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:47 AM ^
Help me understand: They gave up 7 on one play? Is 7 points usually obtained on a FG and two safeties?
October 25th, 2023 at 9:51 AM ^
As in, they were not getting gashed all game, and couldn't stop Ohio state. The scoring drive in the second quarter was a big MHIII play that they finished.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:27 AM ^
Joking
October 25th, 2023 at 10:35 AM ^
Only in Iowa.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:00 AM ^
PSU’s offense was bad. IT’S AS IF OSU KNEW WHAT WAS COMING.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:33 AM ^
I guess they picked up all the signs that said Drew Allar fucking sucks right now
October 25th, 2023 at 10:48 AM ^
Agreed. PSU's offense was putrid. In part because Allar is a statue. OSU has a good D, but my take away from the game was PSU's offense is crap, and they'll have to come out with an entirely new bag of tricks in 3 weeks if they hope to hang with us, which is exactly what they will probably try to do.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:01 AM ^
My battery died partway through so I had to take written notes for the rest of the game.
Neither team looked impressive by any means - even game until then end when it got away from psu. Both teams could be great, or... maybe less so.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:02 AM ^
Drew Allar is *not* him
October 25th, 2023 at 9:16 AM ^
He is if "him" is O'Korn
October 25th, 2023 at 9:02 AM ^
I watched and I saw two very average teams in my opinion. Psu has maybe a solid defense and their qb and play calling were awful. Osu’s entire offense is throw the ball to Marvin Harrison and maybe a tight end here and there.
I was not impressed with either team and think that Michigan could very well beat both teams by double digits.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:04 AM ^
Watched the majority of it. I came out of it thinking both teams were actually pretty similar. Great defensively, mediocre offensively with mediocre QB play. The difference is that one had an NFL receiver and the other didn’t. I think if you put MHJ on PSU the outcome may have been the other way around.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:30 AM ^
Sorry, I can't get enough of this screen shot.
I sort of fell asleep during the 3rd quarter, (nothing better than football and naps), but at the end of the second quarter PSU had a pick six that was called back due to pass interference. The pass interference was away from the play and if I remember correctly a little ticky tacky, but was a legit call. That was a big momentum swing. The teams were playing evenly up until that point. PSU actually had the edge with the pick six. The following 3 or 4 plays the refs called 2-3 more penalties on PSU ensuring that OSU score. At least one penalty was real and one was sort of bs. This crushed PSU's momentum and let them know that they would be playing against OSU and the refs. Not surprisingly OSU pulled away in the second half.
OSU went for it on 4th and 1 against 11 guys and did not make it. (Tough luck.)
As others have posted both defenses looked pretty good and both offenses looked overrated.
I think PSU will be tough to play in happy valley. Glad it is a day game and not a night white-out. Aller will struggle against our defense and we'll see how good our offense really is against PSU's defense. It will either be a tight game or Michigan will blow them out.
Unfortunately I think OSU's mega-star defense is finally coming together and will be tough against us. If our line has gelled by then I think we'll be fine, but they could be dangerous. If Honda McCord progresses the OSU offense could be dangerous. If he plays at the level he's playing at now, we'll destroy him. I can't wait for the Sanristril pick-6.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:41 AM ^
PSU definitely had to beat the refs. The PI call on the interception was pure BS. Nowhere near the play and the flag didn't come in until after the result, classic manipulation.
But Michigan better be ready, because they're going to have to beat the refs in both of these games as well.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:51 AM ^
To be fair, it was defensive holding and not pass interference. Pass interference happens when the ball is in the air. Defensive holding is grabbing the receiver when he is further than 5 yards down field. That was a huge swing in the game. If that TD stands, then I'm guessing it is a coin flip 4th down stop or field goal by one of the teams at the end of the game.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:57 AM ^
This is all I've been thinking about since this happened. It was bad enough before it happened.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:41 AM ^
Hard to say OSU's defense has taken a significant step forward yet. ND probably has the best offense they've played and they ran the ball pretty easily against them. Michigan has a better QB, better TE, WR, and RB rooms. Harbaugh >> Freeman and JJ >> Hartman and he didn't have that bad of a day vs them.
The DE's do not pressure the QB, they've got 14 sacks on the year as a team.
And their first passing TD vs a P5 opponent was 3 weeks ago.
Passing TDs on the year: 0 vs Indiana, 0 vs ND, and 1 vs PSU.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:57 AM ^
Mega-Star? Who, Tommy Two-Thumbs? They are playing well at overwhelming crap offenses (which is most of CFB). Maryland hung with them until........Maryland. They have solid players, but other than the media-anointed (yet easily blocked) JTT, do they have a first-round draft pick on their D?
October 27th, 2023 at 9:14 AM ^
Mega-Star as in high school rankings. Their 2021 class was insane and should be peaking.
JTT #2 100 rating
Jack Sawyer #6 99 rating
Michael Hall Jr. #37 97 rating
Jordan Hancock #47 97 rating
Tyleik WIlliams #124 94 rating
It is great to see guys like Zach Harrison pick the wrong school and suffer in their development. I'm guessing Larry Johnson has lost a step or two at 71. I'm happy with the guys Michigan has, but we're doing more with lower ranked guys.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:32 AM ^
I don't think so. I think you'd have a lot of tape of Harrison Jr wide open down field, and Allar just dumping off 4 yard passes.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:07 AM ^
Thank heavens we have the equalizer, Will Johnson. MH was shut down last year and it'll happen this year also.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:58 AM ^
Not to mention McCord isn't going to be serving up the dimes that CJ Don't Judge me by one-game Stroud was dealing.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:06 AM ^
As part of the “vast network” I saw and captured much but can’t tell you anything without killing you
October 25th, 2023 at 9:09 AM ^
Last season Allar said that Michigan was the best and most physical defense he faced, he'll be saying that again this season. Ohio can't run the ball and its whole Offense relies on MHJ....we will beat the hell out of both again this season.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:10 AM ^
They are both Ass...
October 25th, 2023 at 9:11 AM ^
Allar is slow. Michigan for years struggled with mobile QBs. There were a few times he had chances to scramble where he had space and the OSU defenders quickly got to him.
Marvin Harrison Jr is going to get open and make plays. I don't know how he does it, but he would get wide open underneath, or over the top, and then do what he does and get yards after catches. Wasn't overly impressed with either team during the game, but those two things stuck out. Agree with fans from Penn State. If Franklin keeps running, I think they may have been able to win the game. Will be interesting to see how OSU plays Michigan with stuffing the run or playing to stop JJ.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:36 AM ^
It really is pick-your-poison with MHJr. If you man-up, he's going to scorch you; if you zone, his field sense is immaculate and the TV camera shows him sitting down in a zone and catching a ball without a defender in view. Uncanny.
He was doing that all day against Maryland--okay, they're Maryland. He did it all day against Purdue--sure, man-up is kind of Purdue's thing now, and they've got a few years before they can bring in the horses to back that up.
But against PSU? Without Egbuka on the field? Dude--Manny Diaz can't figure out how to cover two receivers, Stover and MHJr.?
Those two guys are ballers and will get theirs, for sure, against Michigan--but--
Get McCord off his platform--and I think Jenkins, Graham, Moore, Stewart, McGregor, Harrell, Benny, Goode, and company will be able to--and not even two of the best pass-catchers in the country can catch balls that don't get thrown near them.
As for Allar--I feel for the dude. Yet another PSU QB running for his life, by now a long and distinguished tradition.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:19 AM ^
That's why I am a little fearful of MHJ. From what I understand, PSU has one of the best corners in the country to line up against MHJ, with a limited QB in comparison to what OSU usually has, and MHJ still was finding ways to get wide open. Kid is legit, I'd invite him to New York at the end of the season. He should at least be in the discussion knowing he is the focus of the offense and still finds ways to get yards, TDs and make plays.
Michigan's offense is so much more versatile. Love seeing them use 5-7 guys to pick apart defenses.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:28 AM ^
MHJ is terrifying. But UM managed to limit him enough last season with basically the same personnel.
The key is to not let him get behind you. Keep him and the rest of the osu receivers in front and make their offense drive the field. Then stop them in the red zone since they still aren’t a good short yardage team. PSU actually did a good job of this until MHJ’s final touchdown.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:13 AM ^
It felt a bit like the OSU-ND game in which neither team looked particularly good. OSU's defensive line is solid and I think their secondary is good, but PSU's WRs are so mediocre it's hard to know just how hight their ceiling is. Both ND and Maryland moved the ball on them well for stretches, and I still think McCord is basically Allar with a better receiver room. He seems perpetually overwhelmed by pressure.
PSU's defense looks legit, and was the best unit on the field. If UM loses in Happy Valley it'll be because of a great performance by that side of the field. PSU's offense, 10 years running, doesn't have a good line and it submarines everything else they want to do. JTT owes Franklin a ton of his signing bonus in the NFL because these are all highlight film games for him with little else.
OSU will be up for their game at UM but it's weirdly a team full of guys who now haven't beaten UM, and now there's some pressure on them with the whole other thing to have no excuses. Day has barely beaten ND and needed an awful offensive performance by Franklin and co. to win against PSU. I'm not sure if he's playing on borrowed time but this doesn't seem like a great OSU team and so we'll see how they handle facing a team that's way better than anyone else they've seen. As for PSU, it'll probably feel like a slow-motion blowout where UM gets held to FGs or punts early on but PSU goes nowhere for long stretches and UM squeezes them for a comfortable win.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:24 AM ^
Another pre-halftime sad FG for Franklin with notes in his note-pad on how to get another FG in the 2nd half. 31-6 good guys.
October 25th, 2023 at 5:06 PM ^
It's because OSU's d-line, especially the interior, is better, that I think OSU looks like the tougher team for Michigan. Even if Michigan can't throw against Penn State, the interior d-line is so soft, PSU will bring in the safeties for run-support. After that, Wilson, Loveland, or Edwards gets Michigan successful passing targets. Meanwhile, OSU can't run, but they still have Harrison.
So: Michigan can get points on Penn State, while Penn State can't move the ball outside some gadget/trickeration. Ohio State can probably do something with Harrison, but I also think Michigan's offense is less fragile and can move more efficiently and more consistently.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:14 AM ^
Yes I watched.
My observation: they both are ass. Michigan by tweeny fo.