OT: My daughter is moving to Germany...
So, my soon to be 26 year old daughter and her fiancee (getting married this coming Friday) have decided to move to Heidelberg Germany ,July 4th weekend.They picked Germany over Memphis,San Diego and San Fran
They are both incredible young adults,both have multiple degrees (him from Central Michigan,her from MSU and Sorbonne University (Paris France) .They are going on a six week Visa (to find work) he currently works for the Detroit Red Wings front office and she is a high school teacher,so them getting jobs should be fairly obtainable.
Have any other posters been to Heidelberg or even Germany? Hows life for "starting out" mid 20s Americans? I know Heidelberg is a college town,good weather and is in a great location for seeing Europe,other than this i really dont have any idea about the place...
Has anyone else had a their kid move half way around the world? Any advise,or tips that could be helpful .
I have a few questions. Do they currently have any connections or offers in Heidelberg or did they pick it for other reasons? Did they already secure a work visa? I know that can sometimes be quite difficult, and I didn't think you could get one without already having a job lined up. Do either of them speak German?
Ralph, it sounds like you're saying they're just going to show up in Germany and hope it works out to find a permanent situation. Is that really what they're doing? In that case, as long as they're/you're solvent, I would suggest to wish them the best and expect them back in the good ol USA by Christmas.
If they're not back by then, go and visit. Germany during the holidays is really nice.
I lived in Heidelberg more than 20years ago, so my info is out of date. I can say they speak a Southern German dialect, so the ch sound is more of a sh than a k. For example ich is pronounced ish and not ick. The people are very friendly, and the castle is giant. They do firework displays at the castle and they are epic. In the summers you have Fest's all over and most are weinfest's in that area. Basically everyone gets together to drink wine and talk in the town. It would be viewed positively if they learn German (even a little) and try to use it. They would be viewed negatively if they get drunk and stupid - Germans are reserved and idiocy is not tolerated. Local big towns are Mannheim and Frankfurt. Stuttgart is not too far either. Hope this helps.
Tell them to find Franz Wagner and bring him to Ann Arbor.
Can't help you with Germany or with not securing the job before leaving (in general, US teachers can find work but I am not sure the EU visa process)....
But I am still in my (late) 20s, and have lived abroad for the better part of the last two years in multiple locations in Asia.
For them:
Honestly, it is easier to adjust than you think. Technology makes it so easy to stay in touch and VPNs for sports are very key. And end of the day, you can always jump on a plane and be home in like a day or so. I am very happy to have had the chance to expand my world and travel and see new things.
For you:
I'd say be happy for them and just see what happens.
Good luck finding work when they get there. I guess they can both teach English or be receptionists at a hostel, though I'm not even sure they will be qualified for that without an EU passport.
Sounds like a 6-week backpacking trip to me
User name checks out. s/
my buddies son has a pretty cool marketing gig for Adidas. He worked this through a school internship however.
There are ways for Americans to move to Europe. They tend to involve either highly specific careers that are not easily replicated, living off their own art, or working for American companies who transfer them overseas to fill a role. People who just show up in EU countries looking to work there tend to be shuffled into under the table service jobs or eventually find work teaching English if they are sufficiently credentialed. Nothing about this process is simple.
Your friend's son is indeed lucky and I'd guess he was classed as a transferred employee by Adidas for visa purposes.
My wife and I live near Dusseldorf now with our young daughter and while we are a bit older (mid to late 30's) can attest that Germany can be a great place to live. Travel is super easy and the climate similar to a more mild version of the upper Midwest. Food and beer is relatively cheap, and the European vibe towards life is very agreeable.
I will say though that while speaking German isn't required at first, esp in a city like Heidelberg, B2 proficiency is often a requirement for employment:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages
Some other things that can take some getting used to:
-Most stores/shops are not open on Sunday, including grocery stores and pharmacies. Coffee shops and bakeries are usually an exception
-For whatever reason, cash is still king in Germany. Credit cards are not as widely accepted as you would think for 2019
-Download the WhatsApp app for your phone. Its a much cheaper and easier way to call/text
-There are Expat groups on Facebook and other social media platforms that are good for meeting other English speakers
-Deutsche Bahn has discount fare cards for the train for young people, I suggest they sign up for one as the train gets expensive if booked last minute.
Never lived in Germany, but am there quite often the past 5 years...
Agree with you on the language front. You'll be able to get by as a tourist or in small jobs without a ton of German, but long term prospects, you should know German. The people also appreciate when you appreciate their culture/language. They aren't like the French that get upset at you for being unable to speak French (honestly, I don't blame them for that either), but the Germans do at least appreciate the effort. I do find them using credit cards more and more, just make sure after a meal you call for the waiter (they don't just come with the bill after your meal, you have to call them).
I've found Germany to be politically a lot like California. So if you are a left-leaning person, it will be quite agreeable to you without being so socialist as to feel foreign. From a work-life balance standpoint, they are quite liberal (great maternity leave laws, lots of holiday, etc.), so for young people, that can be great.
It's very easy to travel, either via the Deutsche Bahn (their app is a must for anyone in Germany), or Ryanair to other European places. There is a lot to see in Germany, and I've always really liked southern Germany (although Heidelberg isn't Bovaria).
The stores closing on Sunday (and mostly closing at 5pm during the week) is still very difficult for me to get used to when I'm over there.
Heidelberg itself is a nice city. Split between the city center/college area/old town. The city itself was largely undamaged by the war (one of the only major cities that has that claim), so the history is pretty cool. Beer and (especially) wine in the area are great. There is a US military presence nearby, which should help the transition a little.
I personally think Germany would be a great place to live. I'm not sure I'd recommend going there without a job already lined up, but as someone else said, they do have a lot of English language schools were you could probably find work.
I have lived in the Balkans off and on over the last few years. I don't think the adjustment should be difficult for a couple in their 20s who chose to go to Germany.
I'll echo what some of the other posters stated. Getting a professional job in the EU isn't easy unless you have EU citizenship. I'm not sure a 6 week visa is really enough time. And learning some German would certainly help their cause in terms of job seeking. That being said many Europeans, particularly younger, know at least passable English and in terms of getting around they would be fine not knowing a lick of the language.
Lastly, kudos to your daughter and son-in-law for doing this. It takes a lot of guts to just pick up and try to live in a foreign country where you don't know anyone (or the language). Their lives will be richer and better for the experience regardless of what happens.
Speaking of EU citizenship, many countries offer citizenship based on ancestry. I've just started the process of getting the Hatter family Polish citizenship (my mother was born there, so I'm technically already a citizen per their constitution), just in case shit goes south here. Most countries offer it if you can prove direct lineage, but each varies on how many generations back you can go (typically just 1 or 2 IIRC).
Poland's current political situation is...interesting.
If they can do this without quitting their current jobs, more power to them. But I think they'll have a hard time getting jobs if they don't have them already. (Horror story of sorts: A member of my extended family tried quitting a very fancy, well-compensated job in NYC to look for work in London. It didn't work, because when she showed up without her title, many of her local contacts were more interested in doing coke than in taking time out to help someone who was no longer in a position to help them.)
Your daughter will probably have an easier time getting a job than her husband-to-be, but she's going to be dependent on an English language high school hiring for whatever it is that she teaches. I have lived in 5 different countries and my wife, who has been with me for most of it, is a high school teacher with a very attractive CV in an area of need (math). She has never gone through a spate of applying for jobs without being offered one, but in any given European city, you have one or at most two swings at English language high schools. I don't know the rules in Germany, but my wife's American master's in math education and multiple US state teaching certifications don't even qualify her to teach at non-English-language schools in some European countries.
East or West?
Everyone else has already addressed the issues of finding work and a visa (though I'm surprised you think Red Wings front office and school teacher would be easily transferrable to a foreign country) so I'll tell you how to be the best dad ever: Get a Slingbox and hook it up to your cable. My dad actually only pays for cable so that I can watch sports on the Slingbox. That's how I know he loves me.
Can confirm.
There are some helpful resources for expats seeking jobs in Germany.
https://www.expatica.com/de/employment/finding-a-job/how-to-find-a-job-in-germany-tips-from-an-expat-106293/
I worked in Switzerland for four years some 20 years ago. I was fortunate to have an employer obtain the work visa and other necessary documentation. Germany, like Switzerland, has more bureaucracy and regulations to navigate to work and live than in the US. If one is not fluent in German, this becomes even more challenging both for meeting job requirements and daily life. It is also a disadvantage for many positions not to be an EU citizen.
For purposes of qualifying for a position, US college degrees will not necessarily be viewed as equivalent to EU counterparts. As others suggested, the best opportunity for your daughter may be to teach in an international schools. There are job fairs and postings for such positions, but this is very late in the cycle for the coming school year. There is considerable competition for jobs in international schools at the most desirable locations.
The best chance to find a meaningful job may require flexibility as to location, preparation and persistence. In my opinion, limiting a job search to a specific city in Germany is not an approach likely to lead to quick success. For example, perhaps your future son-in-law's experience with the Red Wings' front office might be valued by a team in the Deutsche Eishockey Liga (translation "German Ice Hockey League"). There is no DEL team in Heidelberg, but there is one in nearby Mannheim. Your son-in-law might send his resume to all 14 teams in the DEL to determine if there is interest in hiring someone with his background.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Eishockey_Liga
https://www.del.org
A friend's daughter while in the US applied for several positions in international schools. She was initially accepted for a position in Kiev. This experience facilitated her subsequent moves to other international schools, most recently in Germany. Once a job was secured by my friend's daughter, the husband would look for work near the same city, which generally is difficult for a foreigner without a work visa that is not fluent in the local language. The husband has worked in a couple locations providing support as a civilian contractor to US military installations in Europe.
Best wishes to you and your family.
Good smoked beer out that way. Germany is great for young adults starting out, she would do well to teach English over there if she wanted. They shouldn’t have trouble finding work and making an enjoyable time out of their stay. How did they narrow it down to those places?
Auf Wiedersehen
Lived in Heidelberg for a summer and it’s a great town. Also should be fine for them language wise, especially as expats since there is a large us base not too far out of town.
its an incredibly beautiful charming city, they’ll have a blast.
Sounds to me like your daughter is on a 6-week vacation. Viel Spaß!
He doesn’t want to work for Yzerman?
They are making a big mistake. Living in America is like hitting the lottery.
I can’t agree more. Michigan makes it even better. But life is short. So make the most of it. Plus, it’s so much easier to try things like this WITHOUT KIDS. I barely can get to my local Kroger with my kids, let alone a different country.
But living in Europe is like not caring if you hit the lottery or not, because almost everybody's quality of life is fantastic.
Quality of life is much higher in Europe.
People who believe quality of life in the US is "better" are people who think the best things in life are lawn maintenance for their over-sized houses, larger portion sizes of food than they realistically need, and the fantasy of paying more for private services so your tax bill appears artificially low. basically, it's an opinion that can only be held by the kind of middle aged white dudes who dominate MGo at this point.
The Europeans have defense budgets that are lower in percentage of GDP than the US. That allows the Europeans to spend more on social programs.
That's what this middle aged white dude knows.
very cool!
Awesome and best wishes to them!
Visited Heidelberg last March one evening after work in Mannheim. Only things I can say are that Brauhaus Vetter brews fantastic beer - the dunkelweissen was so good - and Schnitzelbank makes great schnitzel. And Heidelberg Castle is also lovely. Quite the hike if you walk up the stairs from the marktplatz.
Heidelberg is great! I've traveled there for work a few times. Eminently walkable city and it's absolutely beautiful. There are a ton of American companies (particularly automotive industry) just outside of the city. Maybe they could look into those? Given the global nature of the business and the multilingual nature of Europe, everyone defaulted to English for most work.
My goddaughter went to GVSU but now lives in Munich, and been there for seven years. Loves it.
I thought of something else. The DOD (department of defense), hires civilians to work in Germany and when I lived in Heidelberg, we had lots of civilians working there. I dont know the application process, but they could help (particularly with school teachers and American Military community's). As for the son-in-law, there is a hockey league in Germany and Mannheim (15 mins from Heidelberg) used to have a team. That might help them to get jobs as they have specialist experience. The other posters are correct on the visa issues and getting sponsored is difficult, the perspective employer will have to jump through hoops and spend money.
This is what my cousin did when she was living somewhere in Germany for a couple years. (I think it may have been Heidelberg.) Her boyfriend was a contractor for the DoD which is why she moved there, and he was able to help her get a job.
Make sure you know how to use Skype/FaceTime.
Also, don’t repaint her bedroom just yet.
The beer there is really good.
I've heard...
German was spoken --- albeit only infrequently --- in my family while I was growing up. I had two years of German at M as an undergrad, including a conversational course (no English spoken during class) . Over the years I've taken adult classes and have visited Germany on many occasions. My advice: learn the language.
Yes, English is widely spoken and as a tourist you can get around quite well without knowing any German. But it makes a huge difference to the locals if you can at least get a few words out that they can comprehend. And as other commenters have noted, the locals will obligingly help you out with sentence structure, pronunciation, and so on. But as those of us on this blog who have suffered through a few German classes know, German ain't an easy language to learn. But what better place to learn than in Germany itself?
Still, many Americans struggle with German. For example: Mark Twain, in his essay "The Awful German Language," notes that in German, the noun for a young woman, das Mädchen, is neuter, while the noun for a turnip, die Rübe, is feminine. As Twain says: "In German, a young lady has no sex, while a turnip has. Think what overwrought reverence that shows for the turnip, and what callous disrespect for the girl." And finally, after many frustrating attempts to make sense of the language, Twain says: "If [the German language] is to remain as it is, it ought to be gently and reverently set aside among the dead languages, for only the dead have time to learn it."
Ganz Glück! to your daughter and her husband.
Mods? Are you here?
And so are you.
Consider it a blessing.
My company has a major presence in Heidelberg. Your daughter and/or son in law are welcome to reach out via Twitter, @jeepinben.
I was last there for a week March 2018 and my wife joined. I had a work trip, she had a great vacation. As a tourist city you can "do" Heidelberg in about 2 days. It's a great walking city, driving was easy, and it was a great time. I had work meetings, but my wife did touristy stuff and enjoyed it.
That area of Germany has lots of French history. Southwest Germany has gone back and forth a bunch, there are lots of french speakers, etc.
They'll need to learn German, Arabic and Turkish. Heidelberg is the main refugee processing center.
All things being equal, I would've chosen Memphis.
Except it’s not - that would be Giessen .
Until last summer, I worked for a Berlin-based tech company for 3.5 years. I've been to many places in Germany, but never Heidelberg. My two favorite places are Berlin and Munich.
Their best bet would be tech jobs in places like Berlin, Cologne/Dusseldorf, and Munich, something I doubt is available in Heidelberg, unless it's remote. There are a lot of foreigners working in those places, although many have EU citizenship which makes it easier. Berlin is an amazing diverse city with a ton of things to do, but it's the opposite end of the country. If they get tired of Heidelberg, they should probably head there because of job opportunities. Cost of living is really reasonable for a large city.
Quality of life is excellent in Germany. Transportation is first rate, and the Germans, while they expect you to work hard, have a better work/life balance than we do. As for German efficiency, they are technically competent, but it's pretty much a myth. Anyone who has seen the new Berlin Airport sit idle over the past 5 years because of a MAJOR f'up can testify to this.
As for speaking German, I asked my Austrian boss who ran the company if I should polish off my German from U of M. He said don't bother, everyone speaks English. If you're under 50, you very likely speak English as well as most Americans. It's the center of Europe so multinational business is nearly always conducted in English.
Since they will be in Germany, she will have to make his bed. If they were in Italy, he would make hers.
-Dewey Oxberger
I speak German and lived in Frankfurt the summer of 2002. Not much new to offer beyond the posts above me. I will reiterate the part that they should at least attempt to learn/speak German as that goes a long way, even though everyone under 50 basically speaks fluent English.
As also already posted Heidelberg is one of my favorite cities in Germany. Quite centralized and the Deutschbahn is a fantastic world class system.
Above all be happy and proud of them. These are truly priceless experiences that they'll look back upon one day with great memories.
If they are at least conversational in German they can find a job, given their English fluency and degrees. The better their German, the better their chances as many Germans speak decent English.