OT - Help me craft a sales pitch to wife for relocating to Michigan (Grand Rapids)
I am originally from the great State of Michigan (Farmington Hills), having graduated from UM in 2000. I relocated to Arizona for career reasons in 2006 and have been living in Phoenix ever since. There is, however, a decent to strong possibility that I may be offered a job in the Grand Rapids area within the next two months. If offered, it would represent an advancement in my line of work, but would be around an 8 percent pay cut (vastly different salary averages in AZ vs. MI for my profession). I absolutely hate my current job, and love the state where I was born and raised, so if all things were my decision, it would be an easy one to accept the position (if offered) and relocate to GR.
It is not solely my decision to make, however. After dating for around 3 years, I married my wife in December '14. She has lived her entire life in Texas and Arizona, and has family (including both parents) that live in the Phoenix area. In GR we would be 2 hours from my folks in SE Michigan but her family would be over 1,600 miles and three time zones (2 during winter) away. We have no kids, yet, but they are a possibility in the next few years. She also hates her job (a plus for moving) and works in a field that I'm sure she could find employment in back in GR.
Help me sell this potential relocation to my wife, or alternatively, talk me out of returning to Michigan. I'm struggling with this and really appreciate anybody's advice, guidance, or tips! You just don't realize how much more difficult decisions become once you make them for 2 (or more, with kids).......
I think this is literally the first time I've ever heard someone complain about housing prices in GR. Expensive housing is not the reality I have seen at all.
as people look for an abundant source of fresh water, you will already own your property in the state that has the most. Your forethought to think of this eventuality will be a gift to your future children. Set them off on the right foot where the resources will be 20-30+ years from now. A thoughtful mother and father would see that this is the right move for their progeny. Your children and grandchildren will thank you.
Plus, as others have mentioned, Harbaugh. Live in the presence of greatness. Or in a place where spiders are as big as your hand. I know what I'd pick!
Its better to get good and bad facts.
I've never lived there but have relatives there and I spend time there.
Good
-Nice downtown
-You can live in the downtown or more rural. There is a variety of good schools - Forrest Hills as someone mentioned, Northview or the more diverse Kentwood. Its affordable up there versus A2 or Oakalnd County(housing).
-Plenty of Lakes and rivers.
Bad
-Good or Bad - The masses are very very very conservative and very very very Republican.
-Lake effect snow. You are in a snow belt area. Snow, snow and more snow.
-DId I mention how conservative the people are - LOL.
Good luck!!!
March 26th, 2015 at 11:26 PM ^
Beer
March 26th, 2015 at 10:16 PM ^
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Currently I live in G.R. after moving back from the southwest about 20 years ago. One thing that G.R. does not have that Arizona does is all the dirty Mexicans roaming the streets and neighborghoods. G.R. is a much nicer place to raise a family.
March 26th, 2015 at 10:35 PM ^
Miss - I really hope overt racism is an automatic ban at this point.
March 26th, 2015 at 10:38 PM ^
March 26th, 2015 at 10:44 PM ^
Also, thanks a lot iphone for autocorrecting mods to miss.
March 26th, 2015 at 10:24 PM ^
Grew up in West MI, went to U of M and never thought I would end up living back in West MI but job/family just worked out that way. So happy it did since GR has done a 180 over the past 10-15 years and is now a great place to live. There are plenty of big city perks (concerts, restaurants, bars, etc) but also really cool things happening around research, start ups, artprize and non profits. Crime rate is low for a city this size, traffic is really not a problem and there are little pockets of culture depending on what you want.
Weather sucks but that is about the only thing that does...and we lived in Socal for 2 years so I know what I am missing but would not go back.
March 26th, 2015 at 10:57 PM ^
I had the same experience. When I was young, I couldn't wait to get out, and when I graduated from UM, I had no intention of coming back. However, here I am, and it's been great. Either GR is completely different as an adult, or the city has done a 180. GR as a young professional has been fun.
March 26th, 2015 at 10:33 PM ^
Founders Bro
March 26th, 2015 at 10:33 PM ^
March 26th, 2015 at 10:58 PM ^
Grand Rapids is a medium sized town in middle America. It has everything that big cities have except: tons of people, traffic, expensive everything, crime, major league sports, IKEA, chick-fil-a, in-n-out burger, and real strip clubs.
Its a great place to raise a family.
There are many excellent schools.
It's gray and cold in the winter. (I have to leave for a couple stints in the winter or I get depressed)
Spring, summer, and fall are tough to beat here.
Most people are actually still friendly.
Extremely benevolent and giving city.
Conservative? Sure, but that's not a bad thing. Even as a moderate.
Yes Amway is headquartered here. So what. I've never once in 15 years been asked to any meetings to sell it. Not an issue. Actually, the families that own it, give and give and give. They care about the community.
My wife and I talk about moving. But to where? And not before the kids graduate HS. Where is better? I like Phoenix and my mom has lived there for 20 years, but is it worth it to gain the sunshine to fight all the people and everything that goes with that? That's for you to decide.
The beauty of being young and without kids is that you could move here for a few years and if you don't like it you can leave. Even though Scottsdale wasn't the place for us, we are both thankful we gave it a try. You will be amazed at how much you will learn about each other, when you only have each other to lean on.
Good luck.
March 26th, 2015 at 11:05 PM ^
Nobody has mentioned East Grand Rapids? I'd venture to say it resembles no town or neighborhood she's experienced. East GR and summering at Lake Michigan would be my selling points.
March 26th, 2015 at 11:44 PM ^
March 26th, 2015 at 11:07 PM ^
March 26th, 2015 at 11:30 PM ^
If she's into crazy right wing fundamentalist Christians and rich, powerful, crazy, violent, corrupt & corrupting right wing fundamentalists like Eric Prince & Devoss then you're gold!
March 26th, 2015 at 11:54 PM ^
March 27th, 2015 at 10:19 AM ^
You've never been to Grand Rapids, have you?
March 26th, 2015 at 11:30 PM ^
March 27th, 2015 at 12:11 AM ^
March 27th, 2015 at 12:14 AM ^
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March 27th, 2015 at 12:47 AM ^
I live in Denver and go to Phoenix often for work. I can never get over how stupid hot it is four months of the year. In Michigan you can enjoy the great outdoors all summer. Windows open, lakes, dunes, trees, etc.
I think GR is the most likable city in Michigan. I never hear anyone with something bad to say about it, other than it can be a bit boring at times- but that tends to come from boring people. There are few downsides to Grand Rapids.
Bro, I know I am late to the party here and nobody may read this on the entire site, but lets be real about this.... If you love your wife, and respect her without actually "tricking" her... you have about a 1% chance here.. and that may be overly nice on my part... For multiple reasons... Her family, pay cut, economy, weather, mountains, Vegas... The valley is literally a top-5 place in the nation to live these days... And believe me, this isn't where I want to be.. but you don't see people coming here and then leaving... ESPECIALLY when the family is here..
There really is no help for you here in terms of a "pitch".. because there really is no "pitch" that beats out what Arizona provides in the day and age of Air Conditioning unless you are in the best parts of California, Texas, the Carolinas, or Florida....
You are playing blackjack with a 2 and a 4... and she has a 10 showing... And honestly, I would take the odds of the hypothetical blackjack player I just created...
BUUUT.. You have 2 longshot... as in the true meaning of the word LONGSHOT options...Here is what I would do if I was in your shoes and was deadset on making this foolish attempt.. These are 1 OR 2.. not both... this in my eyes is your only legitimate play....
1. Be brutally honest with her... ZERO trickery, you need this, you recognize all of the benefits of staying, but look into her eyes and tell her that this is something you NEED and ask/possibly beg her to give it a shot... Use the fact that once kids come, you wont have this opportunity for the next 20 years.. Its something you NEED and if she could just PLEASE give it a chance prior to creating a family.. If she hates it, you agree to be back in AZ.. (Option 1 to ME, is your best shot at the chance of actually getting her out there, if even for a year(and you better make that the best year of her life)...but once again, its a hail mary at best to keep her there.. lets be real, AZ as an economy, climate, location to ocean, Vegas, zero natural disasters, and in your case, family proximity...AZ really does blow Michigan out of the water in most UNBIASED peoples eyes..
2. This one is even MORE of a long shot, and others had mentioned it.. But if you want to go the brainwash/semi deceptive route... As others have said... you wait til June.. let it get hot as hell in AZ... and then you take her up to Michigan and give it 199% to make it the best little trip she has ever taken.... The AZ knock is valid about being hot as shit for 3 months.. its warranted, accurate, and using the proof of that, in mid-summer is basically like you hitting on a 17 when the dealer has 20.. its the right play.. but youare gonna lose either way..
Also.. those earlier posters who are talking about poisonous snakes and "killer bees"... are you guys FOR REAL???? I thought this was an intelligent blog... Rattlesnakes live in forests too.. they are called Timber Rattlers, as well as many other species of poisonous animals.. I have lived in AZ for 22 of 31 years and never come across a LIVE rattlesnake...If poisonous snakes are the deciding factor,wow.. I feel sorry for the OP...That being said, I get why the OP wants to go back to Michigan.. sometimes I feel it too.. but the average person would call an AZ to Michigan move.. ass backwards.. especially when the pay AND the wifes family is also ASS BACKWARDS..
ANyway.. thats my take.. good luck finding that needle in the haystack... I dont envy you, you are going into a battle you can't win without a miracle or a hypothetical nuclear weapon....and I just gave you two pistols.. and believe they are your best chance.. I hope you are Jason Bourne brotha!!
I can think of one pitch that beats Arizona stone cold: W-A-T-E-R. You have none of it.
Arizona is not that goddamn great. Not everyone thinks it's the shit to be surrounded by sand and 105 degree heat. "Location to an ocean"? What, five hours away? I can be at a saltwater ocean in eight, that's not that big a difference.
You might need to recognize the bias you have instead of assuming that the only unbiased opinion is for everyone to move where you are. If you told me I had to move and could never go back to my home state again - to remove all the bias from the equation, see - you couldn't drag me kicking and screaming to Arizona.
but.....for your sanity and to maintain your marriage, look for another position in Phoenix.
but.....for your sanity and to maintain your marriage, look for another position in Phoenix.
Most of these have probably been repeated, but they are repeating:
1. Grand Rapids is Beer City, USA. There are lots and lots and lots of microbreweries through the city and along West Michigan.
2. Proximity to Lake Michigan. I do not go near as much as I should, BUT the state parks in Holland and Grand Haven are gorgeous. Depending on where you live in Grand Rapids, they are about an hour tops.
3. Proximity to Ann Arbor. I mean, it is not as close living on the east side, but 2 to 2.5 hours is not bad for going to the football games. Closer than Arizona. If driving is not your thing, the U of M Club of Grand Rapids works a local bus company to have buses to take you to the home games.
4. Solid schooling systems. I went to Hudsonville High School (~15 minutes away from GR) which was a pretty solid HS education and the rest throughout the area (there are some duds however) seem quite solid. A lot of GR kids end up applying and going to Michigan as well.
Go Blue!
I grew up in SE Michigan but ended up in Grand Rapids a few years after graduating from UM for job related reasons. And I love it here. The people are generally much friendly here then in SE Michigan (and most places around the country) and it is a fantastic place to raise a family. The area has so much going for it with the thriving downtown, Art Prize, close proximity to Lake Michigan, "Beer City, USA", etc. Plus its only 2 hours from AA, 3 hours from downtown Chicago, and 2.5 hours to Traverse City.
Before I moved here I would have thought I'd jump at the chance to move back to SE Michigan. But now that I'm here, I quickly turn those offers down. I couldn't be happier with where I live.
I don't know what you and your wife think of cold weather and snow, but personally I would much rather have Michigan winters than Texas or Arizona summers.
Best of luck in your descision.
I just moved out of GR and moved to South Carolina as my wife is from here originally. I've lived in Grand Rapids for 30 years, born and raised and I will say this: while I miss home (and GR will always be home), I do not regret making a move in the least bit.
One thing I've noticed since moving south: the weather absolutely sucks in Michigan. I didn't realize how bad it was until I left.
GR also has "I think I'm a major city" syndrome. They act bigger than what they are and it's super trendy (i.e. the beer city thing). I'm convinced it's all propoganda by GR and Pure Michigan to talk people into staying.
All this said, I enjoy SC and I can be back home in 13 hours to visit.
Quite helpful.
/s
March 27th, 2015 at 11:15 AM ^
"I'm convinced it's all propoganda by GR and Pure Michigan to talk people into staying."
Lol. Furthermore, there's this thing called distribution; anyone can find Founders or Bells around the country. I can't see why living near a [hometown] brewery is a selling point whatsoever.
March 27th, 2015 at 11:22 AM ^
With the exception of Perrin, I can get every GR/Michigan beer down here and it's actually cheaper.
I grew up in the GR area as well, first 22 years of my life. Moved away when I got married and we ended up in the Cincinnati area where the wife is from. Cincinnati reminds me of GR in some ways, but its an actual major city, the climate is slightly better and more centrally located to the rest of the country. In GR it takes 3-4 hours of driving just to get out of the state heading to wherever you're going.
Anyways, in 2 months I and my family will also be moving to SC and we can't wait. Only an hour or so from the ocean. My only concern will be the heat and humidity of summer, but hopefully I can get used to that and the winters will more than off set that.
Very surprised that everyone is so dismissive of the weather in GR. Acting like once summer hits its all warm and summer fun. I grew up in the area, my family still lives there and I visit often. I've been there in July and had to wear a jacket, or many times we've gone to Lake Michigan while there in July and it was too cold to swim. Sorry but the brief period called summer in Michigan does not make up for that long cold Artic winter. When I got married my wife said she would never move to Michigan and I was ok with that preferring to get away from the dreaded winters.
To the OP, good luck on trying to make it happen. Not sure I'd want to live in Arizona either. I prefer mountains or ocean nearby. But to talk a girl into moving across the country away from family to a place she knows nothing about, and I assume you have no family in GR either, that makes for a HUGE sell that I don't believe you can overcome. I've lived near my wife's family now for 20 years for a reason, that's what she wanted and there was no talking her out of it. But things in life change and now we are ready for a new adventure.
March 27th, 2015 at 10:36 AM ^
I think you've got a tough sell, and like some others have mentioned, if you have to convince / sell her on the idea I think it's already doomed to failure. Even moreso once kids come, most women tend to want to be near their family when that stage of live comes.
If you don't currently like your job in a small government field I assume the new job would be similar? So if you don't like it now what makes you think you'll like something similar for less pay just because it's in Michigan? Sounds more like a jobs issue.
I spent my first 23 years in Michigan but other than visits to the family I don't miss it. If you like snow move somewhere you can enjoy it like the mountains. If you like sun and warmth or the beach, move somewhere you can enjoy those more than 3 months a year.
I get that we all develop our own ideas of what 'home' should look like by growing up somewhere but I just honestly don't think someone without those previously developed attachments would choose Michigan if they could choose anywhere in the country. it's not a bad place, but it's just not the end-all, be-all of locations in the entire US. Of course I speak that as someone who can live anywhere and spends winters in Florida and summers in the rocky mountains so I'm way on the far extreme of location flexibility and I realize not everyone gets to just go anywhere they want.
March 27th, 2015 at 12:25 PM ^
March 27th, 2015 at 10:41 AM ^
I say this as someone who has split his life between Michigan, Texas, and the DC area. Living in Michigan is hard, and it's not for everyone. Especially this time of year, when it seems like everyone is starting to get some spring, and you have another month or two of drearyness. But, as many here have eloquently stated, the rewards of living in Michigan -- the people, the natural beauty, the activities, but especially the people -- are boundless. To borrow a phrase from A League of their Own, it's the hard that makes it great.
So be brutally honest about it. Set a period of time (a year or so), to see how she likes it and honestly agree to make another move if she hates it. If she knows its not a forever move (necessarily), she will probably be much more willing to give it a try. Don't worry about the money -- you'll probably live better on less in Michigan and being happy about where you live and what you do has a value of its own. But above all, make the decision together and stick with whatever you decide.
Good luck.
March 27th, 2015 at 10:58 AM ^
I personally wouldn't move back to Michigan. The job market is the primary factor. Where I am at, I can get a new job or a career advancement rather easily. In Michigan, I'd mostly be stuck in a rut. IT unemployment in Atlanta is below 2%. This has driven wages up and makes marketing yourself very easy. That being said, when I spoke with my wife about moving away from our family, I made her feel secure in my future and what was going to happen. I outlined cost of living, what the costs involved with travel home would be, and the expectation that she and my daughter would go home for at least a week twice a year. Being where I am, that's easy to do. Delta to Detroit is cheap and driving is a 9 to 10 hour trek straight up 75. You'll have a harder sell than I did. My wife also wanted my career to advance and saw that in Michigan that wasn't going to happen.
March 27th, 2015 at 11:13 AM ^
As a fellow alum and Arizona resident and Michigan alum, I would like to make another suggestion. Consider Flagstaff. A lot of similarities between Flag and Ann Arbor, plus you are only 2 hours from the valley. Good luck whatever you decide.