OT: Gov. Wittmer asked to consider removing two MSU Trustees from Board
It's more good times for MSU, as the Gretchen has been asked to be the adult in the room and bounce Vasser and Denno from the board. They have been accused of exceeding authority and ethics violations. Their fellow board trustees voted 6-2 to have Wittmer do what they can't (apparently), i.e. fire them into the sun. Who knew?
Not just asking this to belittle MSU… but is it normal to have this many issues in a university administration? It seems like it’s always a total mess and is costing the tax payers lots of $. Or is this relatively normal?
Yes, It's totally normal to have this may issues in a university administration.
For MSU.
Re-wording your 2nd sentence a bit: "Provides a valuable service (in MSU's case, educating folks), but is also a political and bureaucratical mess while costing tax payers a lot of $$$."
There are quite a few entities like that. Yes, it actually is fairly normal ---- one could argue that bureaucracy (and its 1st cousin, "politics") is more-and-more inevitable as organizations grow.
It can be belittling. Michigan State has been considered to have one of the most dysfunctional Boards of Trustees in all of academia.
It's been the case for decades.
With Michigan's stance on NIL and our policies on transfer students, I'd suggest that our regents have exhibited dysfunction with respect to a few areas of college athletics.
Is it the regents that set the transfer requirements? Genuinely asking bc IDK who makes those policies? But I would assume it's not them.
If not them, who, Warde? Ono?
i have to believe that it wouldn't be Ono. The direction being taken for the football and basketball programs' handling of NIL likely involves the top leadership of the University including legal, the AD and the ultimate decision makers - the Regents - a bunch of largely older people who fail to see how the athletic world has changed after the Supreme Court handed down its opinion re NIL.
Each college’s dean sets it. The regents have no say in the matter. Hell, Ono doesn’t either.
"The Gretchen"?
Wittmer?
It's "Big Gretch," if I'm not mistaken. And it's "Whitmer," if I'm not mistaken.
Oops. Love those extra words and letters.
It's Shark Week mf'er.
I wonder who cast two 'no' votes? In true MSU fashion, it would be hilarious if both of them voted to remove themselves and two other people voted to keep them.
Couldn't they just resign if they wanted out?
It's literally the 3rd sentence of the article.
The future of two Michigan State University trustees now rests with Gov. Gretchen Whitmer.
Trustees voted 6-2 to censure and refer misconduct allegations against former Chair Rema Vassar and Trustee Dennis Denno under a Michigan law that allows the governor to remove elected officials. Vassar and Denno were the no votes.
I'm really not trying to be an ass, and I know the state of journalism these days is such that all of the relevant information is usually in the headline, but it does help to click through just to check, especially if you're wondering about something specific.
You missed the joke. Obviously, they voted for themselves. Math folks are so literal.
only the desperate ones resort o racial and gender cards.
Only the lazy make broad generalizations.
Or, you know, those who have experienced racial or gender discrimination.
"I haven't experienced racial or gender discrimination, therefore it doesn't exist and anyone who makes that claim is desperate."
In my head, you're the one pulling the race card, but for reasons you likely wouldn't understand nor seek to comprehend
Can she also throw Juwan Howard into this package?
I chuckled a little bit, but I'm gonna be a nerd:
Howard may be a bad coach, but I don't think he's unethical. I hope we can part ways with him with his integrity - and the chance at another coaching stop - intact.
These trustees seem like they got into some bad moves.
Interesting...where does assault land in your interpretation of ethics?
Yes, I'm being a smart ass, and Juwan seems like a genuine person, but he definitely has anger issues that compromise his ability to control himself.
Of course slapping another coach is a problem that he should absolutely need to learn to control.
But embezzlement, corruption, etc. I feel like is a different level of ethics rot. It's a consistent and conscious choice to wield your power for personal gain at the expense of others.
".where does assault land in your interpretation of ethics?"
Battery... It would have been assault if his slap missed.
I was referring to the Sanderson situation.
I guess the question is whether one can be an ethical person if one has a history of unjustifiable actions carried out while emotionally compromised. I suppose if he can admit after the fact that those actions were not okay then he can still be ethical? Do we have any MGoPhilosophers on the board?
I don't think anyone, in the history of everything, has equated "ethical" with "perfect" or "never ever makes mistakes." Or even with "never ever hurt another person."
Juwan acted impulsively — yes, and violently — and immediately apologized. That, to me, is absolutely consistent with being ethical.
(That's not to say that Juwan is or is not an "ethical" person. I have no idea. But anger and limited impulse-control are not "unethical," and you may want to focus your criticisms on those characteristics).
He clawed his face right out in the open. Wasn't hiding anything. Completely ethical.
If he would have done it more on the DL it would have been a bigger ethical scandal, I believe.
This all seems crazy to me, but George Perles was once on the MSU board of trustees. The bar is pretty low.
The bar hit the floor when they hired Engler to verbally abuse the survivors of a sexual assault scandal, and put up with him robbing the place blind.
I’d bet anything that his resignation was primarily intended to avoid an embezzlement investigation.
Reminder that the MSU Board of Trustees, just like UM Regents and Wayne State Board of Governors, are publicly elected officials. The odds that most people voting have any knowledge or even interest in any of the candidates is pretty slim.
This is not said to excuse the MSU Board, that's an absolute shitshow and makes me sad for my alma mater.
The university boards are a great example of how not to choose public officials. Nobody votes for them in a primary election, they are chosen at a party convention based on how much money they donate to the respective party, not any type of qualification.
Then in the general election, people normally don't care at that point on the ballot so they leave the option blank and straight party voting patterns determine the winner. Most people don't select their party so they can vote a certain way in BoT/ BoR elections, so theses clowns are elected based on who people wanted to win a different office.
Just a case study of how something that looks like democracy, isn't always democratic.
Is it just me, or is it jarring to read party affiliations before each of these board members' names? I mean, what in God's green earth does political party have to do with running a university? It's no wonder there's dysfunction if this is how this kind of position is filled.
They will have party affiliations whether they are listed or not. May as well be honest about it.
Well sure, I just have no idea what it has to do with running a university. It's like reading "Republican John Smith, president of State University, met with the Democrat Athletic Director Jane Doe yesterday regarding the construction of a practice field for the lacrosse team". It's obviously irrelevant information that serves no purpose except to set people against each other.
They're elected positions. This isn't that difficult to understand.
Okay, and...? There are nonpartisan races in American elections. Being an elected position doesn't require party affiliation. University governance is a field that has very little to do with party politics, so it should be a nonpartisan election. This isn't that difficult to understand.
That answer is a pretty obvious one. We are living through the second most politically divisive time in American history. You are right, ten years ago, party affiliations would not have been listed but they are now. The will be for a little while and then things will calm down and improve politically in the medium-term and then affiliations will disappear in articles like this. And then someday the shat will hit the fan again and affiliations will be back again.
Things seem really bad now, but the country has always been pretty polarized.
HOUSE IDEOLOGY SCORES
SENATE IDEOLOGY SCORES
Double.
Ideologies aside, the practical realities of running a campaign --- getting ballot access, hiring staff, getting voter data, etc. --- require a party's infrastructure to pull off effectively.
Party affiliation is part of the trustee election process. It infects almost everything these days.
And pretty much always has. The general public is just more aware of it now, for good or for ill.
Ding ding ding. We have a winner.
This is the correct answer.
Yeah this all seems kinda bad!
"Of the allegations raised in the investigation, the ones of most concern to Miller & Chevalier are claims that Chair Vassar and Trustee Denno retaliated against Interviewees and claims that they undertook to launch personal attacks against Interim President Woodruff and the Faculty Senate Chair, (Jack) Lipton."
Denno and Vassar, the report said, met with students and provided them with "confidential and inaccurate information" that violated the code of ethics for the board and was "intended to embarrass and unsettle Interim President Woodruff in violation of Standard 8 of the Code of Ethics."
In regard to Lipton, chair of the MSU Faculty Senate, Vassar and Denno ""The investigation established that Chair Vassar and Trustee Denno "...encouraged a campaign of personal attacks against Dr. Lipton... by student groups and the press. The evidence suggests that their actions were primarily motivated by personal animus against Dr. Lipton, likely due to Dr. Lipton’s call for Chair Vassar’s resignation." That action, according to the report, also violated the code of ethics and "warrant referral to the Governor for review and consideration pursuant to MCL 168.293."
I'm intrigued by how information can be both confidential and inaccurate.
I read it as separate bits of information that fell into the either/or bucket.
Ah, that would make more sense.